Moderator: Vympel
Four posts up in a description of the supposed fluke of firepower the TDiC represents.Rogue 9 wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but why did Spiderman vs. Firelord come up out of nowhere?
You do know when NOT to post +1 to a tangent right?OmegaGuy wrote:Beats me.
And got hurt by The Thing running into him. A shoulder block from The Thing would be no worse than being hit by a car.OmegaGuy wrote:Well the reason Spiderman shouldn't be able to hurt a Herald of Galactus is because they have the Power Cosmic, which gives them insane durability. For example the Silver Surfer, in his very first appearance, flew through a supernova and rode the shockwave with no harm done.
So they are no more childish but they vastly more inconsistent? At what point did consistency become disqualified from the list of things one expects from more mature writing?Also, I find most comic books I read to be no more childish than Star Wars, but that's just my opinion. I wil gladly admit, though, that they are vastly more inconsistent (that's what you get when you have literally thousands of writers working on one universe).
Oh yeah, that's why he ended up laying flat on his back for a while until he recovered. That was "expedient" too?OmegaGuy wrote:Well in the comic it was stated that the Surfer allowed himself to be moved by the Thing's punch because it was the most expedient way for him to depart.
There is a difference between inconsistency despite effort and inconsistency because you don't give a flying fuck. You can tell the difference, and comic authors don't give a flying fuck.Also, I'm not saying that mature writing should be inconsistent, merely that consistency is only one of the factors going into it, and inconsistency is only to be expected when you have thousands of authors working on one fictional universe.
I used to read comic books. When I was 17 years old.Anyway, have you ever read Watchmen or any Vertigo imprints? I think you might like Preacher (God is the bad guy).
Oh please that level of reasoning is the same as if Vader claimed Luke slicing his hand off was the most expediant way to end the duel.OmegaGuy wrote:Well in the comic it was stated that the Surfer allowed himself to be moved by the Thing's punch because it was the most expedient way for him to depart.
This is why you have editors to tell this idiots about past events. Poor continuity is a hallmark of piss poor writing. Same reason Berman and Braga are considered dipshit morons.Also, I'm not saying that mature writing should be inconsistent, merely that consistency is only one of the factors going into it, and inconsistency is only to be expected when you have thousands of authors working on one fictional universe.
Just because something is done in the medium in a manner that is of greater worth does not exonerate others from the complete fuck ups they do. Which is his point. Many parts of comicdom are mishmashed, haphazard bullshit that when one finds a gem like Sandman or Watchmen, that they are the rare exception rather then the norm.Anyway, have you ever read Watchmen or any Vertigo imprints? I think you might like Preacher (God is the bad guy).
Who was?OmegaGuy wrote:2. That's not true. Some comic writers are really bad, but some of them are really good. You can't just lump them all into one category.
Well really, who cares. He thinks comics are for kids and you don't. Why does it have to be an issue?3. Well I am older than 17 and enjoy comics greatly. Furthermore, I know some people who think Star Wars is for little kids only (of course I don't agree with them). The point is that most mediums and genres of entertainment offers something that will appeal to people of all ages. Just because you personally don't enjoy one doesn't mean that you should insult other people for liking it.
No, you're not. The original comic never said that the Silver Surfer deliberately allowed The Thing to kick the shit out of him. That's a retcon.OmegaGuy wrote:1. Hey, don't blame me, I'm just quoting what the comic said.
Who gives a shit? When we're talking about specific comics such as Spiderman, one can quite easily say that the writers don't give a fuck about consistency.2. That's not true. Some comic writers are really bad, but some of them are really good. You can't just lump them all into one category.
Hey dumb-fuck, I'm insulting the level of writing in the comic itself. Although in your case, I'll insult the fan too, for being an asshole and distorting the argument.3. Well I am older than 17 and enjoy comics greatly. Furthermore, I know some people who think Star Wars is for little kids only (of course I don't agree with them). The point is that most mediums and genres of entertainment offers something that will appeal to people of all ages. Just because you personally don't enjoy one doesn't mean that you should insult other people for liking it.
Are we talking about the same sequence, in which he was laid out afterwards?OmegaGuy wrote:1. Well let's see, I've got my Fantastic Four anthology right here. Issue 48, page 18.
Ben Grimm: "I don't get it! He bounced back like he wanted to fall off the roof!"
Uatu: "He did wish to! A mere fall cannot hurt the Silver Surfer! It was simply the easiest way for him to depart!"
So? Pretty much all of them are when dealing with superpower characters.2. You might be able to say some of the writers are like that, but not all of them.
It's an assessment of the writing level, which is targeted AT children. You want to read kids' books, that's your business. Lots of adults liked "Toy Story" too. But don't pretend it's mature and serious or anything less than badly written tripe, especially when superpower characters are involved.3. You said "Well, comic books are generally targeted at children, and adolescents who still think like children." That sounds like an insult to the readers to me. Oh, and I don't really mind if you insult me.
We call this hyperbole.OmegaGuy wrote:1. There was another line in the next issue about how no mortal blow could harm him and how he wasn't really hurt.
Do you know how to read? Or do you enjoy moving goalposts by defining absolutes?2. So because a fictional universe has superpowered characters, it is automatically inconsistent? It can be harder to keep track of, but consistency can be maintained, especially in smaller, self - contained universes.
Thank you fuck nut for not seeing that Watchmen is the EXCEPTION to the common rule.3. I fail to see the correlation between the presence or absence of superpowered characters and the quality of writing or intended audience. Watchmen featured Dr. Manhattan, a supremely overpowered character, yet it won a Hugo award. Then of course, there's Star Wars itself. There's no denying that Jedi and Sith are superpowerful characters.
Point taken. Heralds of Galactus tend to forget that they can use their powers to make themselves more durable, leading to Silver Surfer getting knocked out by bricks and stuff. But if Firelord knew how to use his powers properly, he could have incinerated Spider-Man in an instand.Darth Wong wrote:And why the fuck does that prove Spiderman shouldn't be able to hurt him?Eframepilot wrote:But Spider-Man shouldn't be able to hurt Firelord with his bare fists, as Firelord is a freaking herald of Galactus.Darth Wong wrote:Anyone who even tries to use the "Spiderman vs Firelord" argument is a flaming idiot and should be informed of that fact immediately. Sort of like people who insist on absolute literalist authoritative interpretation of Trek onscreen dialogue: something we don't even do for real-life people.
What the fuck is the logic behind that argument, anyway? A hurt B therefore A must be more powerful than B? By that bullshit idiot pseudo-logic, a Japanese dive-bomber circa 1941 has more firepower than a goddamned battleship. And wait, a grenade could fuck up a Japanese dive-bomber, so a grenade must be more powerful than a battleship too! Gee, this CBR logic is great!
The blast shook a plane thousands of feet in the air.Then the nuke was obviously a dud. Nukes can theoretically malfunction, decay, etc. and I've seen nukes in comicbooks on numerous occasions which have a pitiful fraction of the effects they should have.Another good example of something that was Spider-Man vs. Firelord-ed was Wolverine surviving a direct (and I mean direct) hit by a nuke.
It's not fun to just completely give up. The rule is in place to get rid of the really nutty stuff, like Captain America taking down ICBMs twenty seconds after launch by throwing his shield at them.Well, comic books are generally targeted at children, and adolescents who still think like children. Why is it so unpalatable to conclude that they are not consistent enough to analyze?
So's Toy Story...but I would not call the vast majority storytelling aimed at adults.OmegaGuy wrote:I never said they all were qaulity storytelling. In fact a ton of them just plain suck. However, even the mediocre to bad ones can still be entertaining.
'Ghost Rider wrote:So's Toy Story...but I would not call the vast majority storytelling aimed at adults.OmegaGuy wrote:I never said they all were qaulity storytelling. In fact a ton of them just plain suck. However, even the mediocre to bad ones can still be entertaining.
Didn't we once have a discussion concluding that a machine gun should be able to take out spider man too?Eframepilot wrote:Point taken. Heralds of Galactus tend to forget that they can use their powers to make themselves more durable, leading to Silver Surfer getting knocked out by bricks and stuff. But if Firelord knew how to use his powers properly, he could have incinerated Spider-Man in an instand.
Which only proves it wasn't that powerful of a nuke. A good strong wind can shake a plane. It doesn't take much air to shake something when its entire mass is supported by...air.The blast shook a plane thousands of feet in the air.
They've also used it to try and get everything that only happened once in SW thrown out (which would include Jedi invisibility in TPM and the Death Star planet busting blast).It's not fun to just completely give up. The rule is in place to get rid of the really nutty stuff, like Captain America taking down ICBMs twenty seconds after launch by throwing his shield at them.
In other words, "since they were kids" and they still want and get the same shit they did when they were kids.Eframepilot wrote:Anyway, superhero comics today are aimed mostly at their target market, the very few geeks who actually still read them. These are mostly young adults and the older comic book nerds who have been reading/collecting for decades.
