Zombies in gaming.

[Spacebeard]

Honestly, my first exposure to the concept of "zombies" was in D&D-derived tile-based CRPGs, not in horror movies or first-person games, so I tend to normally think of them as pathetic shambling cannon fodder rather than terrifying unstoppable enemies.

The Thief series is about the only game I've ever played that convincingly uses zombies as powerful, scary enemies. As DesertFly and Stark said, that's mostly because they can only be permanently killed by rare holy water and they can often see you where human enemies couldn't. It also helps that Thief isn't a combat-oriented game by nature: you aren't a bad-ass marine shooting everything in sight, you're a burglar who sneaks around and hides from his enemies. It's a lot easier to use powerful undead to frighten a player who's already skulking in the shadows and jumping at every sound, especially if you use level design to your advantage (creating blind corners and the like where you can't advance without exposing yourself to unseen danger).

[Qwerty 42]

I can't be the only one who freaked out in my childhood when first attacked by Redead in Ocarina of Time.

[loomer]

Personally, I find fast zombies in HL2 fucking scary. They jump out of nowhere with the hideous howl... Sure, they aren't pantsoiling scary, but they can make me jump if a custom map has them in the right spots.

[Ford Prefect]

I can't be the only one who freaked out in my childhood when first attacked by Redead in Ocarina of Time.

*shivers* I hated the Redead.

[Stark]

Maybe Spacebeards' observation is the heart of the matter - in games like Halo and HL2, there's no fear or tension. When you're fighting the Flood, it's a mechanical 'move to next room' 'get spawned on' 'move to next room' rubbish. This sort of thing weakened DOOM3 as well, since, golly gee, armour in a dark room? I wonder what will happen in there!

Zombies are supposed to be scary. You're supposed to be afraid of *them*, not your ammo counter. Since very few games have such sensations, zombies are demoted to 'slightly reddish bad guys'.

The early RE games are a great example of this. They *wanted* to be scary, but it was all so lame and tongue-in-cheek. Hence, you were more afraid of running out of bullets - even in a police station - than the hideous, unstoppable beasts.

Then there's Thief, where you can spend five minutes on a dark ledge, hoping the zombie doesn't smell you, because the battle will attract more and you'll die. The chain-rattling sword-guys were worse, because they could kinda TALK.

[Molyneux]

I can't be the only one who freaked out in my childhood when first attacked by Redead in Ocarina of Time.

the screams...the horrible screams!

[Flagg]

I've never been all that impressed by zombies in games. I enjoyed Stubbs the zombie, but I'm a bigger fan of the non-indestructable "destroy the brain" kind.
Now, 'Dead Rising' for the 360 has me pretty exited.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The early RE games couldn't do zombies properly, because if you actually look at the scenarios in Outbreak for instance, you're fucked no matter how much ammo or skill you have. There's "These zombies are slow and shit" and "There's a fucking SEA OF ZOMBIES!". The latter would make a game somewhat unplayable, unless the best part of a million people, each taking at least a few shots even to the head, chasing you is an exercise in longevity. RE4 had far, far less, but they were just as tough and retained intelligence.

HL2 only got hard in Ravenholm when loads of the bastards surrounded you, and even then, my "trusty blade" which was a circular saw and grav gun combo made short work of them. The ones that ran on all fours were nasty, but being prepared you could take them easy enough.

Zombies are really meant to be cannon fodder anyway, they're not meant to be smart or invincible, just a pain in the arse. In the Resi games, you had the Hunters and Lickers and, if you're really unlucky, Tyrants to contend with. Anyone want to bet how long you'd last if you had to fight a dozen Nemesis clones coming for you?

[brianeyci]

I liked the zombies in system shock. I actually like being worried about my ammo counter. Those kind of games shouldn't be shoot-em-ups but desperation and worrying about how much ammo you have for an enemy that takes multiple hits is part of the fun. Usually if I went back and up and back I could take a zombie with a wrench, but if I had ammo to spare I could try shooting it in the head. Move forward, hit them, move out of the way to avoid the zombie's counter attack, move forward and hit him again... that's what zombies should be like, slow, easy to dodge their attacks, but tough as shit.

Brian

[Admiral Valdemar]

The whole point of a survival horror like the RE series, like the two System Shock games is to, gasp, try and survive! If you've got an assault rifle with a thousand rounds, you kind've lose the "survival" and "horror" aspect and it turns into bloody Doom, only with better graphics.

I mean honestly, are research mansions and spaceships supposed to be chock full of weapons to dispatch with zombified humans? No.

[brianeyci]

What I would like is more unconventional weapons. It'd kind of be unrealistic, but would be fun if melee weapons had a "wear" counter and after too much damage the melee weapon would be useless and you'd have to pick something up. Fire extinguishers, brooms, table legs, kitchen knives, chairs, curtains you can throw on zombies so they have a hard time seeing, you should be able to use everything as a weapon. Throw glasses or ordinary things at zombies just to distract them or bring their hit points down a little notch. With today's game engines that should be easily possible. When you get a gun, it should be "OMFG A GUN!" and you have to shoot the zombie in the head to make a difference. The rest of the time you're using improvised weapons. Maybe barricading doors and exits with furniture, less linear of a level and more open of a level where you could herd zombies into kill zones or safe rooms. Think Alien 3 but the zombies actually walk into the nuclear waste storage room and you lock them in.

Like imagine you're in a kitchen with a barracaded door and the zombies banging in. One zombe makes it through a door you forgot to barricade and you're throwing shit at it and bashing it over and over with a broom, and finally you manage to kill it with a fire extinguisher. You make it through the other door and leave the room just as the first barricade breaks down an dozens of zombies flood the room turning it into a death trap. Cool.

Brian

[Admiral Valdemar]

So in other words, Resident Evil: Outbreak since it has all those features.