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No, but it does include all of the functions that will be useful during normal web browsing to the vast majority of users, not to a small minority of people, like the DOM inspector.

There are thousands of different extensions for Firefox, and many of them are entirely trivial. Do you really need your browser to report itself as Mozilla SexBadger, or whatever whimsical name you might have come up with?

Vendetta wrote:No, but it does include all of the functions that will be useful during normal web browsing to the vast majority of users, not to a small minority of people, like the DOM inspector.

So does Firefox. Do the majority of users really need session saving?

There are thousands of different extensions for Firefox, and many of them are entirely trivial. Do you really need your browser to report itself as Mozilla SexBadger, or whatever whimsical name you might have come up with?

Well, someone obviously did, otherwise the extension wouldn't exist.

Does that change the fact Opera does 90% of what Firefox does, without extensions that break in updates, and no memory leaks?

Ace Pace wrote:Does that change the fact Opera does 90% of what Firefox does, without extensions that break in updates, and no memory leaks?

I still haven't seen any memory leaks despite having used it for years. And no way Opera does 90% of what all extensions can do. Hell, Firefox without any extensions does close to 90% of what Opera does.

Out of curiosity, those who have had memory leak issues with Firewfox, how often do you get rid of your cache and all the other clutter that gets collected when you surf?

I've been using Firefox and before that Mozilla for a long time, and have encountered what I suppose was a memory leak maybe a couple of times, and clearing the cache always helped. I've set the thing to clear all private data immediately when the program exits, and never had any problems. Cache, cookies, history and everything else and no remembering any passwords either. Hasn't conked out on me once since version 1.5 came out.

Doesn't mean that this would be some kind of (or any kind of) solution to the problem, but it might be worth a shot.

Edi

So does Firefox. Do the majority of users really need session saving?

From a purely semantic perspective, one might argue that the vast majority of users don't even need internet connectivity (or so argues Webaroo-which seeks to distribute advertising-supported "slices" of the internet up to 40 GB in size on laptops and mobile devices for any-time, any-where access).

That said, I find the session saving to be extremely useful. As I spend 70% of my surfing time on about five or six websites, and another 15% on another ten, I normally just reload the same session about five or six times over the course of a day, until it gets more or less cluttered, at which time I simply close all pages and start a fresh one (yes, I know I could individually close tabs as well, but why bother?).

My only gripe about Opera is that occasionally it experiences minor glitches in loading some commercial websites (particularly those authored by heavy Flashturbators and Explorer fanboys), but in those rare situations, I just load the offending site in Explorer (I somehow doubt I'm going to be infected with a trojan when visiting Buick.com). Firefox also has a really annoying glitch when loading webpages, in that the upper-left-most pixel (the first one to be loaded, essentially) of text or text-based graphics is always blank.

It's also important to remember that the company that initially founded Mozilla and continues to be one of the major backers of the project is that most dreaded of Internet companies-AOL.

Never had a memory leak. Ever. Even with Adblock when I had it installed.

And from the sound of how you guys speak of Opera, it sounds more like bloatware than anything.

BloodAngel wrote:Never had a memory leak. Ever. Even with Adblock when I had it installed.

And from the sound of how you guys speak of Opera, it sounds more like bloatware than anything.

Firefox extensions blaot? check.

I actully use most of Operas features. So it's not bloat to me.

RThurmont wrote:>snip<

So are you going to bother answering my question about how Firefox is counter-intuitive at all?

It's also important to remember that the company that initially founded Mozilla and continues to be one of the major backers of the project is that most dreaded of Internet companies-AOL.

And? So? Therefore? America Online pledged $2million in 2003 over the next two years so Mozilla could remain an independent not for profit organization. Continuing to support a company doesn't really mean anything. Microsoft initially pledged several million to support Macintosh early in its lifespan, after all. But that doesn't make Macs necessarily evil by extension as you're seeming to infer.

Firefox extensions blaot? check.

My Firefox install, with it's dozen-or-so active extensions including Adblock Plus and one that changes the browser name to random animals (Mozilla Junglemule ) uses, on average, an extra 5 MB of memory compared to vanilla Opera.

Shocking.

Bounty wrote:

Firefox extensions blaot? check.

My Firefox install, with it's dozen-or-so active extensions including Adblock Plus and one that changes the browser name to random animals (Mozilla Junglemule ) uses, on average, an extra 5 MB of memory compared to vanilla Opera.

Shocking.

So don't call Opera bloat if it dosn't use more RAM.

In the end, it comes down to personal preference. Personally the Firefox UI is buttugly and annoying to work with, and I have no problems with IE6,Opera,Avant and IE7.

So don't call Opera bloat if it dosn't use more RAM.

It does include extra "features" like a torrent client which aren't part of internet browsing. Doesn't that pretty much define "bloat" ?

I wouldn't say Opera is bloatware per se, but it does fit the definition better then Firefox.

Bounty wrote:

So don't call Opera bloat if it dosn't use more RAM.

It does include extra "features" like a torrent client which aren't part of internet browsing. Doesn't that pretty much define "bloat" ?

I wouldn't say Opera is bloatware per se, but it does fit the definition better then Firefox.

True, but I have to say any browser that has 'must have extensions' just to operate normally(adblock anyone?) is just too slimmed down.

True, but I have to say any browser that has 'must have extensions' just to operate normally(adblock anyone?) is just too slimmed down.

Vanilaa FF has pop-up blocking, adblock is just the icing on the cake. You don't need it for the browser to work properly.

Ace Pace wrote:

Bounty wrote:

So don't call Opera bloat if it dosn't use more RAM.

It does include extra "features" like a torrent client which aren't part of internet browsing. Doesn't that pretty much define "bloat" ?

I wouldn't say Opera is bloatware per se, but it does fit the definition better then Firefox.

True, but I have to say any browser that has 'must have extensions' just to operate normally(adblock anyone?) is just too slimmed down.

And what do you define as normal operation? I use Firefox without any extensions, and haven't run into any problems I feel need additions to fix. I suppose I might install Bugmenot sometime if I muster enough motivation, but I haven't needed e.g. Adblock for anything.

Edi

When I used Firefox, I always felt I had something missing, it was probebly Opera jitters but stuff like the Wand tool that I probebly just couldn't find it in FF.

Isn't that just the "remember password" function ?

Bounty wrote:Isn't that just the "remember password" function ?

I have no idea, having used Opera a grand total of once at work on a client's machine. I hated the interface (though not as much as I hate IE's interface) and I hate my browser ever trying to remember anything, particularly passwords anywhere. Maybe I'm somewhat paranoid about security that way, but I don't care.

Edi

The wand simply lets me use several passwords per site, and fills in other information like forms that match names or stuff automaticly.

Cute tool.

Ace Pace wrote:In the end, it comes down to personal preference. Personally the Firefox UI is buttugly and annoying to work with, and I have no problems with IE6,Opera,Avant and IE7.

What? The biggest difference between the IE6 (and Avant; it's not a stand-alone browser) and FF UIs is that the address bar is below the navigation buttons in IE6. IE7 is identical to FF, except they moved the Update button to the other side of the address bar and got rid of the Stop and Home buttons. How can you find FF more problematic than the other ones

Dooey Jo wrote:

Ace Pace wrote:In the end, it comes down to personal preference. Personally the Firefox UI is buttugly and annoying to work with, and I have no problems with IE6,Opera,Avant and IE7.

What? The biggest difference between the IE6 (and Avant; it's not a stand-alone browser) and FF UIs is that the address bar is below the navigation buttons in IE6. IE7 is identical to FF, except they moved the Update button to the other side of the address bar and got rid of the Stop and Home buttons. How can you find FF more problematic than the other ones

Especially when FireFox is skinnable as well as Opera is.

BloodAngel wrote:Never had a memory leak. Ever. Even with Adblock when I had it installed.

Ditto. I haven't experienced any problems with Firefox, though I don't use extensions.

And from the sound of how you guys speak of Opera, it sounds more like bloatware than anything.

The full installer for Opera is less than half the size of the fuller installer for Firefox (no extensions).

I prefer Firefox overall, but Opera is pretty nice. Opera 9 beta also passes the ACID2 test, which is something I'd like to see more of.