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Really, I've only seen one source that strongly indicates that Stormtroopers are really all "elites", outnumbered by regular army troops; a single passage in Shadows of the Empire. How prevalent is this idea?

Darth Raptor wrote:

PainRack wrote:Which begs the question of why the Imperial navy has two seperate infantry corps.

It doesn't. The stormtroopers are independent of both the Army and the Navy.

Technicaly, if their system works anything like ours, the STs should be subbordinate to the navy.

Basically: Army Navy
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Marines (stormtroopers)

Noble Ire wrote:Really, I've only seen one source that strongly indicates that Stormtroopers are really all "elites", outnumbered by regular army troops; a single passage in Shadows of the Empire. How prevalent is this idea?

It was always my impression that they were an elite corps of the Army that were fanatically loyal to Palpatine (the Das Reich/Totenkopf/Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler of the GE, if you will) and their predominance in the movies was explained by both the nature of the plot, and that Imperial warships had Stormtrooper compliments as much to ensure their loyalty as to execute actual missions (like the Royal Marines during the 18th-19th century, I guess.) Having said that, I also always assumed that 'fleet troopers' were the navies actual marines.

But you have to consider two things:

1) It is at least implied that Stormtroopers are garrisoned on Tatooine. While I suppose the stormie-on-a-dewback thing might be seen as weak evidence, I think it clearly shows a Stormtrooper who's "settled in" on that planet.

2) Stormtroopers are the successors to Clonetroopers and a lot of them are still clones according to Lucas. Clonetroopers with similar gear, equipment and training were the standing army of the Republic.

Cao Cao wrote:1) It is at least implied that Stormtroopers are garrisoned on Tatooine. While I suppose the stormie-on-a-dewback thing might be seen as weak evidence, I think it clearly shows a Stormtrooper who's "settled in" on that planet.

I remember a quote (OT ICS?) that suggested that the use of dewbacks was a commendable display of on the spot initiative by the Stormtrooper commander - the implication being that they'd just landed.

thejester wrote:

Cao Cao wrote:1) It is at least implied that Stormtroopers are garrisoned on Tatooine. While I suppose the stormie-on-a-dewback thing might be seen as weak evidence, I think it clearly shows a Stormtrooper who's "settled in" on that planet.

I remember a quote (OT ICS?) that suggested that the use of dewbacks was a commendable display of on the spot initiative by the Stormtrooper commander - the implication being that they'd just landed.

Unless said commander also had improvise for his troops with some abandoned trooper armor he found buried in the desert, or the atmosphere aboard an ISD is naturally Saharran, if still think the troopers in that scene lend credance to the idea that there were stromies with the local garrison; some of their armor was throughly worn and encrusted with sand.

thejester wrote:

Cao Cao wrote:1) It is at least implied that Stormtroopers are garrisoned on Tatooine. While I suppose the stormie-on-a-dewback thing might be seen as weak evidence, I think it clearly shows a Stormtrooper who's "settled in" on that planet.

I remember a quote (OT ICS?) that suggested that the use of dewbacks was a commendable display of on the spot initiative by the Stormtrooper commander - the implication being that they'd just landed.

I don't really buy that, unless every Stromtrooper in the Empire gets a full "How to Tame and Ride Giant Lizards" course before entering active duty.

Noble Ire wrote:

thejester wrote:

Cao Cao wrote:1) It is at least implied that Stormtroopers are garrisoned on Tatooine. While I suppose the stormie-on-a-dewback thing might be seen as weak evidence, I think it clearly shows a Stormtrooper who's "settled in" on that planet.

I remember a quote (OT ICS?) that suggested that the use of dewbacks was a commendable display of on the spot initiative by the Stormtrooper commander - the implication being that they'd just landed.

Unless said commander also had improvise for his troops with some abandoned trooper armor he found buried in the desert, or the atmosphere aboard an ISD is naturally Saharran, if still think the troopers in that scene lend credance to the idea that there were stromies with the local garrison; some of their armor was throughly worn and encrusted with sand.

...it could happen.

...it could happen.

Of course it could. Nevertheless, at least to me, the idea that the garrison actually had stormtroopers and deployed them to aid in Vader's search seems far more likely (by the way, I couldn't find any such quote in the OT ICS, although it did indicate that the Devestator did dispatch troops to the planet; however, that does not mean that they were only ones there. After all, there were plenty in Mos Eisely as well).

Cao Cao wrote:We also see Stormtroopers on Tatooine riding Dewbacks.
Now I'm no expert, but I think you'd need some training to ride a giant lizard like that, and they were pretty well equipped to do so.
Obviously they're not carrying Dewbacks on Star Destroyers (one would hope, anyway) so I think that's pretty clear evidence of Stormtroopers being stationed long term on a backwater nowhere planet like Tatooine.

There are 10,000 STs on an ISD. There's bound to be at least one specialist unit (in this case, Sandtroopers) on it.

Shadowtraveler wrote:

Cao Cao wrote:We also see Stormtroopers on Tatooine riding Dewbacks.
Now I'm no expert, but I think you'd need some training to ride a giant lizard like that, and they were pretty well equipped to do so.
Obviously they're not carrying Dewbacks on Star Destroyers (one would hope, anyway) so I think that's pretty clear evidence of Stormtroopers being stationed long term on a backwater nowhere planet like Tatooine.

There are 10,000 STs on an ISD. There's bound to be at least one specialist unit (in this case, Sandtroopers) on it.

I don't see why. They could have a million troopers and it wouldn't make any real sense for an Imperial Navy ship to carry around people fully trained in giant lizard taming and riding just in case they might happen to land on a planet with giant lizards someday.

They're attached to Vader. They're bound to get around.

Shadowtraveler wrote:They're attached to Vader. They're bound to get around.

Try as I might, I just can seem to find the Dewback pens in the ICS on the SD page.

Knife wrote:

Shadowtraveler wrote:They're attached to Vader. They're bound to get around.

Try as I might, I just can seem to find the Dewback pens in the ICS on the SD page.

They're probally around the junior officers' quarters.


But in all seriousness, the Databank says they're native to Tatooine, so it's a moot point.

Perhaps the "on the spot initiative" and "just landing" merely referred to the local chapter that flew out there. Flying is still the quickest method to get from point to point on any planet that doesn't have traffic out its ears.

Noble Ire wrote:

...it could happen.

Of course it could. Nevertheless, at least to me, the idea that the garrison actually had stormtroopers and deployed them to aid in Vader's search seems far more likely (by the way, I couldn't find any such quote in the OT ICS, although it did indicate that the Devestator did dispatch troops to the planet; however, that does not mean that they were only ones there. After all, there were plenty in Mos Eisely as well).

Sorry, I was being tongue in cheek - you're undoubtedley right, if the armour was sand-encrusted etc then they were local troopers.

The whole sandtrooper thing has bugged me for a long time. In the EU the gear seen on tanooine = sand trooper. But to my eyes the storm troopers are just carrying long range patrol gear & long range weapons. If they guys in ANH really are sand troopers, then the main difference is not the gear provided to them but the training. (Like most specialized units.) The only exception that we saw was the Dewback.

My take on the tantooine storm troopers is that there is a local training garrison, specializing in desert / arid warfare. The patrol that discovered the escape pod was a redirected local unit, possibly already on patrol, explaining the beat up condition of the gear. Fast forward to Mos Eisley, & most of the storm troopers are still carrying arround their packs, which would indicate to me, that they do not normally operate inside of that city. M.E. is under a partial lockdown for Rebel Agents. Mos Eisley probably does not normally have storm trooper patrols wandering the streets, that's the job of the local (& probably highly corrupt) constables.

I see no reason why the stormies couldn't just saddle up on a dewback if the animals are docile enough. Obi-Wan Kenobi rode around on that creature in Revenge of the Sith without any mention of training.

Elfdart wrote:I see no reason why the stormies couldn't just saddle up on a dewback if the animals are docile enough. Obi-Wan Kenobi rode around on that creature in Revenge of the Sith without any mention of training.

I thought it was very well implied that he reached out in the Force to the lizard thingy.

joeblakk wrote:Technicaly, if their system works anything like ours, the STs should be subbordinate to the navy.

They're subordinate to both branches, as the highest stormtrooper rank is colonel. Obviously they'll operate in conjunction with the Army (see Hoth) and both the Army and the stormtroopers depend on the Navy to get around.

Noble Ire wrote:Really, I've only seen one source that strongly indicates that Stormtroopers are really all "elites", outnumbered by regular army troops; a single passage in Shadows of the Empire. How prevalent is this idea?

Tim Zahn suggests in his ThrawnTrilogy, that now that the empire has cloning-tech (again) even their regular army-troops are on a level with STs, which indicates a prior difference in standards of abilities and efficency.

Are Dewbacks said somewhere to be native to Tatooine, and only found there? They could have been from Tatooine originally, but since have been transferred throughout the sector; their use by the ST's would suggest they are efficient pack animals.

Also, on the latest edition of the Star Wars Visual Dictionary (i think), which was posted here not long ago, there is an image of a clone trooper during the CW's riding some sort of slug-like creature. This suggests to me that its not unusual for ST's to ride animals for whatever reason, and so some training in such methods could be given.

The relative deployments of stormtroopers and Imperial Army soldiers seems to make sence to me. Stormtroopers, being deployed as marines aboard naval vessels, are deployable anywhere, and will always be the first to arrive, because before you can attack a world, you have to bring warships there to defeat ground-air and ground-space weapons, and any spacecraft they can field. The army probably finds a use only as a planetary defence force to repell invasions and as a force that is deployed to a world once space superiority is gained and the Stormtroopers have established a beachhead. Given that the presence of an Imperial warship sitting unopposed in orbit is likely to give a rather significant reason to surrender, the Army is probably usually relegated to local forces for beating down insurrections and rebellions.

Darth Raptor wrote: It doesn't. The stormtroopers are independent of both the Army and the Navy.

And the USMC is independent of the army and navy too.

The imperial naval troopers does make some sense if their role were mainly security though. As of Endor, we saw that the naval troopers were supposed to perform internal security at the compound while external security was provided by the stormtroopers corp.

Cao Cao wrote: We also see Stormtroopers on Tatooine riding Dewbacks.
Now I'm no expert, but I think you'd need some training to ride a giant lizard like that, and they were pretty well equipped to do so.
Obviously they're not carrying Dewbacks on Star Destroyers (one would hope, anyway) so I think that's pretty clear evidence of Stormtroopers being stationed long term on a backwater nowhere planet like Tatooine.

There may have been stormtroopers in local garrisons, certainly neither Luke nor Obiwan raised any concerns.

However, Vader orders were specific. Use troops from the Devastator, don't alert the local governor. However, the governor was later notified when Tatooine was placed under a blockade via Tarkin powers and presumably, the local garrison roused to help man checkpoints.