StarDestroyer.Net BBS

End the fundies.

Without them to propagate their evil, the world can slowly improve. We'll make new art.

Sofia wrote:Religious themes are allowable. It's only the art that was created primarily to glorify God (any god) that you'd be destroying. Take Bach as an example.

So does that mean all of Bach's non-choral works gets to stay? Or does it mean that since Bach was very religious, ALL of his work goes, even if it has no lyrics?

The same goes for Liszt. He was a very religious man, but I'd say most of his best works were non-choral. I'd hate to lose his piano works just because he happened to be religious.

Kojiro wrote:We can write new symphonies and paint new pictures.

Pfft, yeah new SHITTY symphonies. Symphonic music has taken a nose dive in the late 20th century and isn't getting any better now. But, I digress.

In short, fuck the fundies.

I can make new art. Fundies go down.

Question: Do we also wipe out all memory of said works? For instance, if every copy of Missa in Angustiis had disappeared while my choir was working on it last year, I probably could have sat down and wrote out a fair bit of it from memory at the time. Blueprints for architecture, people's memories (and don't say it can't be done; Mozart once reproduced an entire mass that the Vatican had kept the score to secret simply by hearing it once), these can all be used to recreate the art and architecture.

That said, I wouldn't be party to pressing a button that would murder millions of people, regardless of the reason.

Rogue 9 wrote:Question: Do we also wipe out all memory of said works? For instance, if every copy of Missa in Angustiis had disappeared while my choir was working on it last year, I probably could have sat down and wrote out a fair bit of it from memory at the time. Blueprints for architecture, people's memories (and don't say it can't be done; Mozart once reproduced an entire mass that the Vatican had kept the score to secret simply by hearing it once), these can all be used to recreate the art and architecture.

You get an A for ingenuity, but a fat D for comprehension. The OP clearly makes it out that such art is gone, cast to oblivion and never to be seen, read or heard again. If we could simply recreate it, it's not much of a hard choice (not that it is to me or others anyway).

That said, I wouldn't be party to pressing a button that would murder millions of people, regardless of the reason.

Or, as per the OP, you could simply don your shades and neuralise them and turn them into decent Human beings, without those nasty fundie memories.

Yeah, that bit about... well, you know... deconverting fundies - that makes the choice too easy and a no-brainer.

It would be a lot harder if you actually had to KILL them all

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:So does that mean all of Bach's non-choral works gets to stay? Or does it mean that since Bach was very religious, ALL of his work goes, even if it has no lyrics?

The same goes for Liszt. He was a very religious man, but I'd say most of his best works were non-choral. I'd hate to lose his piano works just because he happened to be religious.

All of Bach's work goes, just because I believe he said that all of his compositions were inspired by the glory of God.

I don't know very much about Liszt, but if he said or believed something similar, all of his goes too.

(I know, it's hard to tell).

drachefly wrote:I figure that humanity is likely unstable against the formation of fundamentalism. So, there would, soon, be fundamentalists again.

Don't be so quick to leap to that assumption. Fundamentalism is largely an historical phenomenon, in the sense that new fundies are created by aggressive brainwashing techniques from previous generations of fundies. The kind of rabid mindless faith that we're talking about originated during an era when there was basically no science, no public education, and no practical way for most people to know any better, and perpetuated itself via the mechanism mentioned above.

look at what were destroying for a moment. Almost every form of art traces it's roots to religious influence. Every form of music traces it's way back to religous influences. Wheteher they be the pagan of africa, old negro spirituals, classicals odes of devotion... without these we would not have any modern music. at all. Eliminate those from history and suddenly rock and roll, Jazz, rythim and blues as wll of all of their sub genres cease to exisT.

No thank you, i'll let history run it's course. Let fundamentalism peter out naturally as humanity gradually learns the lesson of how foolish it is to worship the invisible man in the sky.

EDIT: Furthermore what advances in engineering were made by the religious in their quest to glorify a diety? Look at the massive cathederals dotting Europe and the Pyramids of Egypt. This is idea is tantamount to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Col. Crackpot wrote:look at what were destroying for a moment. Almost every form of art traces it's roots to religious influence.

"Religious" and "fundamentalist" are not the same word, genius.

Darth Wong wrote:

Col. Crackpot wrote:look at what were destroying for a moment. Almost every form of art traces it's roots to religious influence.

"Religious" and "fundamentalist" are not the same word, genius.

True, but the average religious person of the 1600's would clearly be considered a fundie by today's standard.

Look at the massive cathederals dotting Europe and the Pyramids of Egypt.

Well, yeah. But so? The OP only says about art, so we presume scientific progress is unaffected. In that case, it's perfectly viable to change fundies to normal people. CN Tower, Ostankino and the Oriental Pearl Tower still rise and shine.

Darth Wong wrote:

Col. Crackpot wrote:look at what were destroying for a moment. Almost every form of art traces it's roots to religious influence.

"Religious" and "fundamentalist" are not the same word, genius.

No it isn't, but the OP specifies that while only fundamentalists are killed or reprogrammed, all religiously inspired art is destroyed, whether fundamentalists made it or not.

Col. Crackpot wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:

Col. Crackpot wrote:look at what were destroying for a moment. Almost every form of art traces it's roots to religious influence.

"Religious" and "fundamentalist" are not the same word, genius.

True, but the average religious person of the 1600's would clearly be considered a fundie by today's standard.

Not necessarily. Even in Galileo's time, the Catholic Church declared that Scripture could be overridden by direct observation. While they were often loathe to admit that this was actually the case, this official policy would mark them as heretics according to modern fundamentalists who observe the idiotic Sola Scriptura policy.

Stas Bush wrote:

Look at the massive cathederals dotting Europe and the Pyramids of Egypt.

Well, yeah. But so? The OP only says about art, so we presume scientific progress is unaffected. In that case, it's perfectly viable to change fundies to normal people. CN Tower, Ostankino and the Oriental Pearl Tower still rise and shine.

then i hope you're deaf beacuse there'd be no music.

Darth Wong wrote:"Religious" and "fundamentalist" are not the same word, genius.

But what he's saying still applies. The OP states that you destroy all art inspired by religion, not created by fundamentalists.

Rogue 9 wrote:No it isn't, but the OP specifies that while only fundamentalists are killed or reprogrammed, all religiously inspired art is destroyed, whether fundamentalists made it or not.

Quite frankly, I think it would be worthwhile to destroy all art if we got rid of fundamentalists along with it, never mind just religious art, Crackpot's bizarre attempt to turn "engineering" into "art" notwithstanding. We can always make more art.

I would feel really bad about the loss of all the artwork involved, but I'd do the conversion, no question. Assuming that we could keep the world fundie-free from that point on, the overall benefits would outweigh the loss, no doubt. And is not like all art would disappear, after all... we still would keep a lot of works of all kinds.

Col. Crackpot wrote:

Stas Bush wrote:

Look at the massive cathederals dotting Europe and the Pyramids of Egypt.

Well, yeah. But so? The OP only says about art, so we presume scientific progress is unaffected. In that case, it's perfectly viable to change fundies to normal people. CN Tower, Ostankino and the Oriental Pearl Tower still rise and shine.

then i hope you're deaf beacuse there'd be no music.

Don't be a fucking retard. Do you really think that 100% of all music was inspired by religion?

Darth Wong wrote: Not necessarily. Even in Galileo's time, the Catholic Church declared that Scripture could be overridden by direct observation. While they were often loathe to admit that this was actually the case, this official policy would mark them as heretics according to modern fundamentalists who observe the idiotic Sola Scriptura policy.

You sort of refute your own argument there Mike.

Darth Wong wrote:

Col. Crackpot wrote:

Stas Bush wrote: Well, yeah. But so? The OP only says about art, so we presume scientific progress is unaffected. In that case, it's perfectly viable to change fundies to normal people. CN Tower, Ostankino and the Oriental Pearl Tower still rise and shine.

then i hope you're deaf beacuse there'd be no music.

Don't be a fucking retard. Do you really think that 100% of all music was inspired by religion?

I'll give specific examples. Rock, Blues, Jazz, Folk. R&B all share relious lineage...

Col. Crackpot wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Not necessarily. Even in Galileo's time, the Catholic Church declared that Scripture could be overridden by direct observation. While they were often loathe to admit that this was actually the case, this official policy would mark them as heretics according to modern fundamentalists who observe the idiotic Sola Scriptura policy.

You sort of refute your own argument there Mike.

Care to explain how? You just said that everyone in past centuries was a fundamentalist by modern standards, and I pointed out an example of how this is not the case.

Col. Crackpot wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Don't be a fucking retard. Do you really think that 100% of all music was inspired by religion?

I'll give specific examples. Rock, Blues, Jazz, Folk. R&B all share relious lineage...

Oh blow me, you're just playing sophistic games now. So now we're treating art as if entire categories should be considered to be inspired by religion? A painting of a landscape should be considered religious art because you figure that paintings were religiously inspired?

I'm torn on this one. The causes of fundamentalism are base, human urges that will still exist even if all current fundies are wiped out (i.e. wanting power, wanting acceptance and belonging, the emotional longing for a simple, unalterable worldview) so, even if it takes a different form, there will still be coercion, sheep mentality and narrow-mindedness. That said, there are millions suffering right now whose lives would drastically improve if all fundamentalists were converted.

I don't know if I could destroy irreplaceable art, though, knowing that no matter what we do now, people will always suffer.

then i hope you're deaf beacuse there'd be no music.

That's bull. There's plenty of non-religious music even as far as the Middle-Ages. Of course, if you lament specifically Jazz, which evolved on religious grounds, I can't help, but I could live with techno, rock, hardcore and some instrumental music. Sorry, doesn't add up.
And how is all of rock religiously inspired, huh?