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King Kong wrote:People don't (usually) sneer in contempt at the person they're about to make out with. The pose that they're doesn't necessarily give off racist vibes; the emphasis on their color and the implied superiority of 'white' is what really makes this ad racist. The pose just makes it worse.

It doesn't seem so much sneering as taunting or challenging to me, but that may be just me.

Personally I didn't think there was much wrong with that picture until people explained why it was so -- but I fully admit that it's sort of a blind spot for me. Still, I understand how it could be seen as offensive. Certainly doesn't look like something that'd slip by people who are paid lots of cash to figure these things out-- maybe they put this out deliberately to cause controversy and gain free advertising?

The worst part is that there are piles of other motifs they could have used in the 'black vs white' schtick they're going for. All the other ones don't feature black and white PEOPLE. Whether or not it's actually racist, it seems like they made a very strange marketing decision to even go that way.

I wonder if it would seem as racist to society at large if the colours were flipped?

It does look kinda racist, in a way. But when you consider it's advertising the colour of a gaming console it's worth getting some perspective on the image. There does not seem to be a deliberate political agenda there.

Lord Woodlouse wrote:I wonder if it would seem as racist to society at large if the colours were flipped?

It does look kinda racist, in a way. But when you consider it's advertising the colour of a gaming console it's worth getting some perspective on the image. There does not seem to be a deliberate political agenda there.

That's my point - regardless of it's actual racism, they could communicate the same idea in a way that couldn't possibly be construed as racism. Instead, they used PEOPLE, black and white people, to demonstrate superiority. That's just stupid.

Stark wrote:

Lord Woodlouse wrote:I wonder if it would seem as racist to society at large if the colours were flipped?

It does look kinda racist, in a way. But when you consider it's advertising the colour of a gaming console it's worth getting some perspective on the image. There does not seem to be a deliberate political agenda there.

That's my point - regardless of it's actual racism, they could communicate the same idea in a way that couldn't possibly be construed as racism. Instead, they used PEOPLE, black and white people, to demonstrate superiority. That's just stupid.

Unwise for a business, undoubtedly (though who knows, it might actually appeal to some European whites BECAUSE they see a race picture there) but the problem is mostly there because people like to read things into all kinds of imagery where the intention is not necisarily there.

So to answer the question myself I don't see it as racist. But I can easily see how people could interpret it that way.

Is it just me or does the chick in the picture look like the actress of Six from NBSG?

Icehawk wrote:Is it just me or does the chick in the picture look like the actress of Six from NBSG?

The actress of Six is much hotter. So it's just you.

Why does everyone immediately play the racism card? That's just retarded, IMO. The white chick is kicking the ass of the black one in that poster, but in a different poster, the black chick is totally winning.

Nobody would ever call the other one racist. You know, the one where the black girl is winning. However, as soon as you put a white person in a clearly dominant position over a black person, angels lose their wings or something.

I'll repeat what I said in the G&C forum when I didn't realize this was already posted here: When I first saw the title of the article, I figured it was a bunch of hypersensitive jackasses over-reacting. When I saw the ad itself, I thought differently.

I'm usually quick to scoff at crap like this, but man, that does look pretty damn racist.

I used to live in Holland and I'm talking to some of my old dutch friends over MSN right now. There is absolutely zero uproar in Holland. Nobody's complaining about it. Only Americans are getting all uptight.

The poster's intent was to show contrast.

IMHO, we Americans are a tad oversensitive.

Have you guys seen the other poster?


Looks like people are only showing the poster that they construe as racist, and not the one in which the black woman is shown as stronger.

Max wrote:Why does everyone immediately play the racism card? That's just retarded, IMO. The white chick is kicking the ass of the black one in that poster, but in a different poster, the black chick is totally winning.

Nobody would ever call the other one racist. You know, the one where the black girl is winning. However, as soon as you put a white person in a clearly dominant position over a black person, angels lose their wings or something.

White people have been culturally and socially dominant over non-whites for centuries. Ads which feature white people dominating non-whites tend to cause a fuss among minority groups because, intentional or not, they reinforce this image of white superiority. There are very, very few positive roles for minorities in Western mass media. Unless you're watching UPN or Telemundo, non-whites are generally relegated to bit parts or stereotypical roles like the Chinese delivery-boy or the Mexican gardener.

Ad campaigns with the converse — a non-white person dominating a white person — are generally considered acceptable because they break down the idea of white superiority. There are exceptions, of course, like Asian women sexually dominating white men since that falls under the "Dragonlady" stereotype.

It's all a matter of balance I think. If there were an equal amount of images with non-whites in positions of power in Western media nobody would give a crap.

It's a stupid ad campaign all around. First, as many people have pointed out, the marketing execs should have known there would be controversy when they used black and white PEOPLE to in their ads. You'd have the exact same effect having a guy in a black outfit and a guy in a white outfit without bringing race into the equation. Even if you have the images with the black guy dominating the white girl always placed next to the images of the white girl dominating the black guy, you still get a racial conflict vibe from the ad.

Second, what's the message, that the white PSP is superior to the black? Unless Sony's phasing out production of the black model and doesn't mind seing black PSP sales plummet, it's a poorly concieved concept.

Heh... when you see both pictures, it looks more like Sony is using S&M pictures rather than racist pictures.

Praxis wrote:I used to live in Holland and I'm talking to some of my old dutch friends over MSN right now. There is absolutely zero uproar in Holland. Nobody's complaining about it. Only Americans are getting all uptight.

The poster's intent was to show contrast.

IMHO, we Americans are a tad oversensitive.

Showing my ignorance here about the rest of the world, but does Holland have the same history of racial tension that America has had?

Grasscutter wrote: Second, what's the message, that the white PSP is superior to the black? Unless Sony's phasing out production of the black model and doesn't mind seing black PSP sales plummet, it's a poorly concieved concept.

The message of the ad had nothing to do with superiority- it was supposed to show the contrast between black and white.


According to Sony:

"The marketing campaign for the launch of the White PSP in the Benelux focuses on the contrast between the Black PSP model and the new Ceramic white PSP model," the spokesperson said. "All of the 100 or so images created for the campaign have been designed to show this contrast in colors of the PSPs, and have no other message or purpose."

Grasscutter wrote:

Praxis wrote:I used to live in Holland and I'm talking to some of my old dutch friends over MSN right now. There is absolutely zero uproar in Holland. Nobody's complaining about it. Only Americans are getting all uptight.

The poster's intent was to show contrast.

IMHO, we Americans are a tad oversensitive.

Showing my ignorance here about the rest of the world, but does Holland have the same history of racial tension that America has had?

I asked, response:

Praxis - Wiiiiii! says:
guy on a board:
"Showing my ignorance here about the rest of the world, but does Holland have the same history of racial tension that America has had?"
Orcrist says:
yes?
Orcrist says:
We kinda reinvented slavory in the 15th century?
(and got rid of it again less then 30 years later. But noone followed us with that hype)
Orcrist says:
and ofcourse, more recent. The whole jyhad thing, muslims setting churches on fire and Christians setting mosque's on fire
Orcrist says:
(and people setting eachother on fire)

When I pointed out how uptight Americans were getting about the ad (he said there was zero media coverage about it over there), he responded:

hehe, if it was a muslim and a white guy, maybe. But that ad? nah

Praxis wrote:The message of the ad had nothing to do with superiority- it was supposed to show the contrast between black and white.

According to Sony:

"The marketing campaign for the launch of the White PSP in the Benelux focuses on the contrast between the Black PSP model and the new Ceramic white PSP model," the spokesperson said. "All of the 100 or so images created for the campaign have been designed to show this contrast in colors of the PSPs, and have no other message or purpose."

The photos in question are poor choices for the campaign. The models look like they're fighting. If they're just going for contrast they should have ensured that neither model looked like they were in a superior position.

Praxis wrote:

Orcrist says:
We kinda reinvented slavory in the 15th century?
(and got rid of it again less then 30 years later. But noone followed us with that hype)

There's one explanation for why people in the U.S. are freaking out over the image but nobody is in Holland. Slavery continued for significantly longer in the U.S., and Blacks were treated as second-class citizens for over a century after it was finally abolished. Discrimination against Blacks still happens in the U.S. to this day.

Praxis wrote:When I pointed out how uptight Americans were getting about the ad (he said there was zero media coverage about it over there), he responded:

hehe, if it was a muslim and a white guy, maybe. But that ad? nah

Makes sense, different cultures have different taboos. Black/White racial tension is still a sore subject here in the U.S.

Although we'd certainly get major freak outs over an Arab vs. White person ad here in the U.S. as well.

I'd love to see the Playstation Arab.

What the hell were they thinking? The first thought that went through my mind was "slave market", it looks like she's inspecting a slave who's up for sale. Extremely bad decision making.

I think one of the most interesting things about this is that, just as with race, the difference between the two machines is entirely superficial. The PSP White is just a PSP with a different color shell. There's nothing new but the color.

Grasscutter wrote:There's one explanation for why people in the U.S. are freaking out over the image but nobody is in Holland -- Discrimination against Blacks still happens in the U.S. to this day.

It's the same thing in Europe, although in varying degrees in different countries. Racial discrimination and social inequality between ethnic groups is a very often recurring news topic here. Steady flow of immigration for the past fifty years has made the countries of the old continent very heterogeneous places and and many large cities can easily have higher percentages of people with African ethnicity than some in USA. For example, half of the population in Amsterdam is of non-Dutch origin and a good deal of them are muslims.

The reasons what caused the French riots are not confined in France alone. They are merely an extreme example of what has happened in all of Europe. If anything, my guess is that Europeans (yes, I know it's unfair to label 450 million people like this) discrimate blacks and other non-westeners far more than USA does.

In many cases "we" continue to treat the immigrants and their children, who have lived their entire lives in their new homeland, as outsiders. Due to its historical roots as the land of immigrants, the American society should stand a better change at assimilating them. If I remember correctly, muslims in USA have higher education and better income than the national average.

Whether the immigrants or our societies are to blame - I feel it's both - the truth is there already are suburbs where some 1-10% of the residents are of local ethnicity. The remaining 90% have no homeland of their own or good future prospects. They end up in these concrete ghettos, go down the criminal path and end up joining extremist religious organizations, becoming home-grown terrorists. American blacks have done a good job at making themselves heard, blaming the slavery and whatever-whites-have-done for their misery, but they have nothing to complain compared to some of our immigrant societies. The impression what I've got is that it's far easier for blacks to climb the social ladder in USA, provided you're not a dumbass yourself, than it is for them.


I think the main reason why this ad has raised such an uproar in US, but not Europe, is political correctness that is IMHO a bit of a problem in the American media and among the Christians, whose feelings toward religion are generally much stronger than in Europe.

When you can't show naked human body, sexual intercourse or use curse words on the national television outside cable channels (but violence is ok, as long as there isn't blood spattered around), there's something weird.

I would call the ad outright racist, unless there was that other version with black-white catfight taking place. As it is, I think the only charge you can file against Sony's marketing department is "lack of tactful approach".


PS
Should this thread be in N&P rather than AMP?

Don't the Dutch have a holiday devoted to putting on blackface and dressing up like sugar plantation slaves?

Grasscutter wrote:There's one explanation for why people in the U.S. are freaking out over the image but nobody is in Holland. Slavery continued for significantly longer in the U.S.

Slavery was outlawed in Curaçao in 1863, the same year as the Emancipation Proclamation (which I know didn't fully outlaw slavery in the US).

StarshipTitanic wrote:Don't the Dutch have a holiday devoted to putting on blackface and dressing up like sugar plantation slaves?

Uh, no. We have a holiday devoted to Saint Nicholas handing out presents to children.

Lord Sander wrote:Uh, no. We have a holiday devoted to Saint Nicholas handing out presents to children.

I heard an NPR story about Christmas in Holland: describing a Saint Nicholas who resided in Spain, who used to be the archbishop of Turkey, and would kidnap naughty children on Christmas assisted by 6-8 black men.

Are you referring to this, StarshipTitanic? IIRC, they mentioned at the end of the piece that many of these Christmas elements had been removed in recent years.