U.S. Theocrats Want Public Stoning and Slavery

[wolveraptor]

Am I wrong in saying that state governments are markedly more conservative (on the whole) than federal government? Because that seems to be my perception.

[Big Orange]

At the moment I'm having a debate with a religious nutcase over at Spacebattles.com who goes by the name of EmperorSolo - he too is apologising for the gross excesses of God and the countless atrocities committed in his name.

[Lord Zentei]

At the moment I'm having a debate with a religious nutcase over at Spacebattles.com who goes by the name of EmperorSolo - he too is apologising for the gross excesses of God and the countless atrocities committed in his name.

Unless I'm much mistaken, that might well be our EmperorSolo51.

[Big Orange]

That must be the same guy!

He's a rabid Roman Catholic and all.

What sort of loony things does he often talk about?

[Lord Zentei]

That must be the same guy!

He's a rabid Roman Catholic and all.

What sort of loony things does he often talk about?

Catholic apologism. You might look at the "search all posts by..." function.

Or click here, here, here or here if you're lazy. I'd dig up some more, but I can't be arsed.

[Big Orange]

I did flick through some of comments already and I'm not surprised that no body has really agreed with him on his religious conviction. And in the debate at Spacebattles.com, like any good fundie he thinks that the invisible bearded guy exercises "perfect justice" and that all tribes he exterminated or helped to exterminate were all "evil".

[RedImperator]

Am I wrong in saying that state governments are markedly more conservative (on the whole) than federal government? Because that seems to be my perception.

It varies widely by state. And among conservative states, the brand of conservatism varies. The intermountain west's brand of conservatism is much more libertarian and less Christian than the south.

It's the south--the former Confederacy, especially the original seven deep south states--which is primarily driving the Christian asshattery in this country. It's the center of gravity of the evangelical movement and the Christian wing of the Republican party.

[Darth Wong]

I did flick through some of comments already and I'm not surprised that no body has really agreed with him on his religious conviction. And in the debate at Spacebattles.com, like any good fundie he thinks that the invisible bearded guy exercises "perfect justice" and that all tribes he exterminated or helped to exterminate were all "evil".

That guy is a blithering idiot of the highest order, totally immune to logic and so irritating that even his fellow Christians kicked him out of the Christian private usergroup here.

He doesn't really debate; he just keeps saying what he believes, over and over. And if you contest it, he simply says it again, but with slightly different wording. It's like one of those childrens' toys that has an electronic vocabulary of a few dozen phrases. You just push the button on his chest and another stupid repetitive canned phrase comes out of his frozen smiling face.

[Lord Zentei]

I did flick through some of comments already and I'm not surprised that no body has really agreed with him on his religious conviction. And in the debate at Spacebattles.com, like any good fundie he thinks that the invisible bearded guy exercises "perfect justice" and that all tribes he exterminated or helped to exterminate were all "evil".

That guy is a blithering idiot of the highest order, totally immune to logic and so irritating that even his fellow Christians kicked him out of the Christian private usergroup here.

Say what?

I was wondering why he seemed to have buggered off the forum...

[LadyTevar]

I did flick through some of comments already and I'm not surprised that no body has really agreed with him on his religious conviction. And in the debate at Spacebattles.com, like any good fundie he thinks that the invisible bearded guy exercises "perfect justice" and that all tribes he exterminated or helped to exterminate were all "evil".

That guy is a blithering idiot of the highest order, totally immune to logic and so irritating that even his fellow Christians kicked him out of the Christian private usergroup here.

Say what?

I was wondering why he seemed to have buggered off the forum...

To be more specific, he was kicked out of the Knights Astrum Clades for disobeying Rule 1: No bashing of other religions.
He bluntly stated that all non-Catholic sects are Incapable of being saved, because only the Catholic Church was founded by Christ, through St. Peter: all other sects are Heretical and Damned, and Luther and Calvin are rotting in hell for their actions.

[Lord Zentei]

To be more specific, he was kicked out of the Knights Astrum Clades for disobeying Rule 1: No bashing of other religions.
He bluntly stated that all non-Catholic sects are Incapable of being saved, because only the Catholic Church was founded by Christ, through St. Peter: all other sects are Heretical and Damned, and Luther and Calvin are rotting in hell for their actions.

Well, that does sound like something he would say. Way to spread the love, EmperorSolo51.

[LadyTevar]

To be more specific, he was kicked out of the Knights Astrum Clades for disobeying Rule 1: No bashing of other religions.
He bluntly stated that all non-Catholic sects are Incapable of being saved, because only the Catholic Church was founded by Christ, through St. Peter: all other sects are Heretical and Damned, and Luther and Calvin are rotting in hell for their actions.

Well, that does sound like something he would say. Way to spread the love, EmperorSolo51.

No one seems to have missed him so far, so I guess that's that.

[Big Orange]

He doesn't really debate; he just keeps saying what he believes, over and over. And if you contest it, he simply says it again, but with slightly different wording. It's like one of those childrens' toys that has an electronic vocabulary of a few dozen phrases. You just push the button on his chest and another stupid repetitive canned phrase comes out of his frozen smiling face.

Uhh, that's exactly whats happening over at Spacebattles.com at the moment now. Plus EmperorSolo(51) is also saying how heretical and "evil" the other non-Catholic religions too and he was already been temporarily banned by the Spacebattle.com admins.

[Darth Wong]

It's actually classic fundie behaviour. The only reason we don't see more of them around here is that people like that tend to avoid contact with heathens if possible. Given his username, it would appear that he's enough of a sci-fi fan to have wanted to participate here and at spacebattles despite the fact that he would have to interact with us disgusting damned souls.

As for the original thread subject, the "start small, push society in our direction so we can accomplish the really big hidden agenda" mentality of fundies may explain why they think gays are doing the same thing: they're projecting. That's why they assume gay marriage is just a first step toward people raping children in the streets.

[Big Orange]

What scares me about EmperorSolo is how God is supposedly good and when he carries out genocide, oversees ethnic clensing and causes horrific natural disasters, he is supposedly carrying out "perfect justice".

[DPDarkPrimus]

What scares me about EmperorSolo is how God is supposedly good and when he carries out genocide, oversees ethnic clensing and causes horrific natural disasters, he is supposedly carrying out "perfect justice".

Look at Mike Wong's signature quote from Jonathan Boyd. It's not an uncommon belief among fundamentalists that God literally can do no wrong, and anything he says to do is good.

And then they'll accuse you of being a moral relativist.

[wautd]

At the moment I'm having a debate with a religious nutcase over at Spacebattles.com who goes by the name of EmperorSolo - he too is apologising for the gross excesses of God and the countless atrocities committed in his name.

Same guy that tought masturbation perverted the soul or something like that right?

[Frank Hipper]

I did flick through some of comments already and I'm not surprised that no body has really agreed with him on his religious conviction. And in the debate at Spacebattles.com, like any good fundie he thinks that the invisible bearded guy exercises "perfect justice" and that all tribes he exterminated or helped to exterminate were all "evil".

Of course, pointing out that all-knowing and all-powerful means that god knew they would be "evil" before they existed, that he was going to exterminate them before they existed, and did nothing about it even when it was perfectly within his power to do so is man's wisdom, and not god's, and evil too

The embodiment of goodness and source of all morality. PRAISE!

[Alyeska]

On the up side, to get anything remotely like what these nutjobs want would require constitutional changes. And that isn't likely going to happen since it requires majority support in every level of government.

Prohibition demonstrated how a vocal minority can ram an unpopular constitutional amendment past a fractured or unprepared majority. And they wouldn't try to put it through all at once. By the time we get to slavery and stonings, the Constitution will be toilet paper anyway; you have to fight them on bullshit like the Defense of Marriage Amendment and attempts to stip Federal court jurisdiction over establishment clause cases. Their strategy is based on slowly transforming society (hence the homeschooling movement and the creation of a parallel university system for fundamentalists, and attacks on public schools and mainstream academia), and the law. The only way we get to Christian Reconstructionist theocracy quickly is with a revolution or a coup, in which case the Constitution is irrevelant anyway.

Why must you shatter my illussions? I prefer to think the people of this country aren't that stupid.

[Alyeska]

To be more specific, he was kicked out of the Knights Astrum Clades for disobeying Rule 1: No bashing of other religions.
He bluntly stated that all non-Catholic sects are Incapable of being saved, because only the Catholic Church was founded by Christ, through St. Peter: all other sects are Heretical and Damned, and Luther and Calvin are rotting in hell for their actions.

Emp did a good job pissing off the Jewish members of SB.com when he entered a civil religious thread and started mouthing off how the Jews are all wrong and are going to hell, etc.

He's done a good job pissing off a lot of people recently. His future at SB.com isn't so bright.

[LadyTevar]

I'm not surprised. He seemed very anti-"anything not Catholic"

[Big Orange]

Here is the nonsense sprouted out by EmperorSolo(51):


I Said: "How can a perfectly good being be perfectly good if he's the biggest mass murderer in the Old Testament? What about the dead children at Sodom and Gamorrah? How is that justice?"

EmperorSolo Said: "God doesn't murder God only inflicts judgement on those people who had done evil. God in his infinite goodness can not allow evil to go unpunished. Otherwise, If evil is allowed to go unpunished, God wouldn't be Good as the cries of the just would go unheard.

as for children there is a nice article i shall use the tenth plague:
Though this nicely explains the reasoning behing plague number 10:

“When I judged Egypt, I actually did it in an impartial way. I exercised my authority as Moral Governor and appropriated the firstborn males of man/beast of BOTH Israel and Egypt for My own possession, to do with as I see fit. All the firstborn of Egypt and Israel thus became MY PROPERTY, to use/deploy/dispose of in accordance with My choices and plans for history. Most of the Egyptian firstborn (which became Mine in this act of 'setting apart' –i.e., “sanctification”) I decided to kill, as a last-ditch effort to stop the folly of the Pharaoh (via a judgment he would finally understand fully), to stop the infanticide and oppression program, and to impress upon the remaining major of Egyptians the truth of the claims of Moses and Israel about Me (for their ultimate good). [Most, if not all, of these children—average age probably around 8 or 9 yo--would have not reached any 'age of accountability', so most/all of these I brought to Myself.] The firstborn of Israel I also took to Myself—I am no respecter of persons—but I decided to deploy/dispose of those in different ways. The Israelite sons I decided to 'sell' instead of 'kill' (i.e., the parents HAD to redeem them with money, and I used the money to support the central teaching and ministry institutions). The Levites who I accepted as substitute/payment for some of these I gave away—to Aaron to support his ministry to my people. The clean animals I decided to slaughter and give back to the Israelites to enjoy as food at a community/family bonding “party” (Deut 15.19), and the unclean animals had to be bought back (supporting the ministry) or killed –just like I did the Egyptian animals. No distinction in status, only differences in disposition. I am wise and good beyond your expectations... and certainly well beyond your personal standands...”

Although this 'setting apart' action has some transcendental character to it (operating beyond our expectations of the situation), to me this seems so radically different in character from Pharaoh's actions and intent as to not fall into the same category at all. No 'stooping' at all, but rather using a means—however unfortunate from one perspective—to finally get through to Pharaoh, and finally stop the killing of newborns (through the infanticide progrom) and the killing of adults (through the deliberate death-labor-program).

So, given the huge disparity in the scale, intent, nature, and effects of these two actions (the Tenth Plague, Pharaoh's death-labor and infanticide programs), and in light of the universal principles of moral governance, delayed judgment, and reciprocal morality, I have to conclude that God was acting well within the bounds of propriety in this action, and indeed, was 'unreasonably' lenient in this judgment on Pharaoh and Egypt. No one likes judgment—especially God!--but this one occurred in a context of warning, ease of avoidance, clarity of purpose, extraordinary evidence, and exceptional delay (80 years+). God used a difficult judgment to stop a much, much larger program of atrocity. How long had His appeals to Pharaoh's and the Egyptians' sense of decency/compassion fallen on deaf/cold hearts???

"

I Said: "Pretty merciful God, huh? He allows his trbe to slaughter other tribes to steal their land and then kills most of them too when they slighted him."

EmperorSolo Said: "It's part of the judgement God has cast on the tribes the Israelites are facing in addition to thier destruction, God has ordained that they have lost the rights to the lands that God have given them oroginally for being wicked and evil in thier relationships with themselves and thier relationships with thier neighbors. Israel has been given this land becuase has made a covenant with the Hebrews. Even the Hebews, themselves will periodically lose the land becuase of evil things that they did or completely (see the 10 tribes of Israel."

I Said: "You define a person by their actions and God is one sick puppy and is without doubt the most sadistic, power hungry and abusive character in the Bible."

EmperorSolo Said: "God himself needs no power becuase he is omnipotant. God needs no control becuase he is infinite. He fulfills all needs in himself. God being our Father has set down rules for us to live by, if we have violated those rules than justice demands that there be a punishment entailed otherwise if no punishment was given then therefore God can not be perfectly love as even perfect love must mete out perfect justice for the sake of all."

I Said: "Oh and how did other religions fare under the Christianity you hypocritical prat? What about the countless Jewish pogroms,"

EmperorSolo Said: "The Jewish Pograms were done by the Cosssacks under the direction of the secular Czars."

I Said: "the Spanish Inquisition,"

EmperorSolo Said: "Only aimed at those who were Catholic in the first place. They were not aimed at non-catholics as they were outside the scope of ecclesiastical law. Not only taht but, I have entered into evidence to back up my sttaement taht the Inquisisution in Spain went overboard and into politics during the Torquemada years and would not let even Papal legates into the country. THe Italian Inquisisution (not run by secular people as the inquisistion was given to the Spanish monarchs to essentially run with no say from the Bishops) was far more mild and less talked about on these forums."

I Said: "the Crusades"

EmperorSolo Said: "A defensive action designed stopping the spread of Islam into the West and to safeguard Christian pilgrims going to the Holy Land and freely enter the holy shrines and churches without being forced to may the Jiyza."

I Said: "and the stamping out of the original Pagan religions?"

EmperorSolo Said: "That's not true as even going into the 10-12thth century, Christians worked and lived side by side with Pagans and Pagan kingsoms. Such examples are the Irish Pagans in Ireland, the Magyars of Hungary, and the Vikings of Scandidnavia. With the spread of Christianity through the monks and the great saints, these nations converted Christianity."

I Said: "As far as I know Muslims were ethnically cleansed in Spain,"

EmperorSolo Said: "The Muslims were kicked out of Spain as a result of the Spanish Monarchy fearing that the Muslims would use thier own population to stage a invasion of Spain again. This had nothing do with religion but with military concerns of an entire people that the monarchy could not trust. The Jews themselves similary could not be trusted and after Spain did that, theyh immediatly went into massive economic downturn as they lost nearly all of thier middle class."

I Said: "while the Jews throughout Europe were regulated to second class status in their own ghettos."

EmperorSolo Said: "The Jews had been putting themselves into Ghettos even duriung the Pagan Roman times (there were jewish Quarters in Rome, Alexandria, etc) much like blacks of the USA would put themselves into ghettos to seperate themselves from the white population. However, that does not mean that it was totally the fault of the Jews, the State too can be blamed for it's actions as the state (notably Russia) would engage in anti-semetic laws that would lead to harsh reactions of the people. Such reactions were condemned by the Church with priests and theologians sent to calm people down and to stop harassing the Jews and hurting them. The Rhineland Crusade is an example of this where the Pope sent St. Bernard to Germany to end the peoples attacks on Jewish Homes and Synagogues."

I Said: "And Pagans were dealt with as well, with Pagans practicing medicine often getting tortured to death or even burnt alive."

EmperorSolo Said: "That's not true. Considering the fact that Christians in Europe lived, worked, and traded with pagan peoples together up to the 14th century. You are attempting to interject the with trials which were a protestant past time in Europe. With Trials as I noted were condemned by the inquisistion and the Church as they admitted hearsay as evidence when even secular courts and Inquisistorial courts could not."

---------------------------------------------------------------

His blatant bullshit goes on and on (although there are few golden nuggets of truth nestled amongst his mountains of excrement).

[Lord Zentei]

Funny how when God acts like a dick, he is meting out "infinite justice", while when people do evil in his name, they are being "secular" or else he finds some realpolitik reason for such asshattery as if that made it OK.

And if people do evil in God's name, why does his "infinite justice" not emerge in such occations?

[DPDarkPrimus]

Oh, so people are property now, are they?

[Stark]

OT I know, but I'm curious if EmoSolo uses his catch-all 'it's believed by 98% of Catholics, but it's not in the catchism so it doesn't count as 'real'lol' excuse. There was a time here when that was the content of half his apologetic posts.