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apocolypse wrote:And while I'm at it, what the fuck is it with this continuing underlying belief that Saxton somehow snuck info into the ICS without approval or some such? How would such a feat even be possible?

Well, I think it's obvious...

HE'S A SITH LORD!!!!

apocolypse wrote:Really, wtf is wrong with these people. There's no clue as to what shape this revised ICS is going to take. Even if hypothetically speaking the weapons yields and such were omitted, how the hell is that supposed to invalidate the stand-alone copies?

It won't, but the fucktards will pretend it does. It's exactly like the way they pretend the movies don't support astronomical power generation for SW ships, as if they honestly never saw the Death Star.

And while I'm at it, what the fuck is it with this continuing underlying belief that Saxton somehow snuck info into the ICS without approval or some such? How would such a feat even be possible?

It's "possible" when you're an ignorant kiddie and you don't understand how publishing or any other real job works. They probably think the ICS was published like the high school student newspaper.

apocolypse wrote: And while I'm at it, what the fuck is it with this continuing underlying belief that Saxton somehow snuck info into the ICS without approval or some such? How would such a feat even be possible?

I know a lot of it has to do with a heavily edited quote from me here. After Dr Saxton explained the methodology to me, I relayed it here, talking about how we can gague the performance of certain ships by the fact that they can engage otehr ships we have more evidence for. Bobby took it, clipped out a chunk of the sentence so that it said the exact opposite of what I was saying, and started proclaiming Dr Saxton just started making things up.

Ender wrote:

apocolypse wrote: And while I'm at it, what the fuck is it with this continuing underlying belief that Saxton somehow snuck info into the ICS without approval or some such? How would such a feat even be possible?

I know a lot of it has to do with a heavily edited quote from me here. After Dr Saxton explained the methodology to me, I relayed it here, talking about how we can gague the performance of certain ships by the fact that they can engage otehr ships we have more evidence for. Bobby took it, clipped out a chunk of the sentence so that it said the exact opposite of what I was saying, and started proclaiming Dr Saxton just started making things up.

Almost forgot about that. Do we have a comparison? Do you have the link to your post here?

apocolypse wrote: And while I'm at it, what the fuck is it with this continuing underlying belief that Saxton somehow snuck info into the ICS without approval or some such?

How would such a feat even be possible?

Don't know. The same way we got a 3 million men strong clone-army?

Ender wrote:

apocolypse wrote: And while I'm at it, what the fuck is it with this continuing underlying belief that Saxton somehow snuck info into the ICS without approval or some such? How would such a feat even be possible?

I know a lot of it has to do with a heavily edited quote from me here. After Dr Saxton explained the methodology to me, I relayed it here, talking about how we can gague the performance of certain ships by the fact that they can engage otehr ships we have more evidence for. Bobby took it, clipped out a chunk of the sentence so that it said the exact opposite of what I was saying, and started proclaiming Dr Saxton just started making things up.

Ah. I'd heard about a quote that Scooter took from you and purposefully skewed on his website, but I didn't know it had to do with this. I'll have to go take a look at his site and see if I can find the rewrite. Thanks.

As a side-note, I'm really fucking tired of all the goddamned idiots and assholes who keep saying that nothing in the film supports 200 GT turbolasers. Did they honestly not see the fucking Death Star? Are they honestly so goddamned stupid that they can't see how powerful that shit is, even if you scale it down to the size of a Pinto?

Hell, you could even totally ignore the onscreen Alderaan blast, go with the bare-minimum 2.4E32 J figure for an Alderaan explosion that takes hours to unfold, and you'd still have even a comically small 3 metre wide micro-Death Star putting out a 377 megaton blast.

Are these people allergic to math? Are they just fucking idiots? Do they honestly think that if they don't use that kind of firepower all the time or in every type of weapon they make, they must not be capable of it?

And remember, a bounty hunter's ship can deliver more firepower than an ISD!

Lord Poe wrote:And remember, a bounty hunter's ship can deliver more firepower than an ISD!

I take it you mean 'is shown to deliver more firepower than ISDs are. While the refusal to accept 200GT MTLs is moderately confusing given that kind of firepower is EASILY in line with what downscaling from the Alderaan incident will get you (as Mike pointed out), the idea that Slave 1 outguns an ISD is ludicrous.

Batman wrote:

Lord Poe wrote:And remember, a bounty hunter's ship can deliver more firepower than an ISD!

I take it you mean 'is shown to deliver more firepower than ISDs are. While the refusal to accept 200GT MTLs is moderately confusing given that kind of firepower is EASILY in line with what downscaling from the Alderaan incident will get you (as Mike pointed out), the idea that Slave 1 outguns an ISD is ludicrous.

He's being sarcastic. Remember the AOTC asteroid chase? That's what he's referring to.

Yeah well I officially have no sense of humour. Besides my sarcasm detector's batteries just gave out

Darth Wong wrote:As a side-note, I'm really fucking tired of all the goddamned idiots and assholes who keep saying that nothing in the film supports 200 GT turbolasers. Did they honestly not see the fucking Death Star? Are they honestly so goddamned stupid that they can't see how powerful that shit is, even if you scale it down to the size of a Pinto?

Hell, you could even totally ignore the onscreen Alderaan blast, go with the bare-minimum 2.4E32 J figure for an Alderaan explosion that takes hours to unfold, and you'd still have even a comically small 3 metre wide micro-Death Star putting out a 377 megaton blast.

Are these people allergic to math? Are they just fucking idiots? Do they honestly think that if they don't use that kind of firepower all the time or in every type of weapon they make, they must not be capable of it?

Oh, but it's special. Yup, that's the ticket.

Darth Wong wrote:As a side-note, I'm really fucking tired of all the goddamned idiots and assholes who keep saying that nothing in the film supports 200 GT turbolasers. Did they honestly not see the fucking Death Star? Are they honestly so goddamned stupid that they can't see how powerful that shit is, even if you scale it down to the size of a Pinto?

Hell, you could even totally ignore the onscreen Alderaan blast, go with the bare-minimum 2.4E32 J figure for an Alderaan explosion that takes hours to unfold, and you'd still have even a comically small 3 metre wide micro-Death Star putting out a 377 megaton blast.

Are these people allergic to math? Are they just fucking idiots? Do they honestly think that if they don't use that kind of firepower all the time or in every type of weapon they make, they must not be capable of it?

Not allergic to math, just incapable of admitting anything. Literally you'll see the claim that Alderaan is either not a Earth Sized planet, or RSA classic chain reaction. Anything and everything to completely avoid the fact that what they saw is what they saw.

Ok Mike, here's a great argument for you to dissect:

Gstone wrote:Of course, because everything goes back to Wong. If it wasn't for him, Darkstar never would have made the arguments he posted on Wong's board, never would have made his site. So, naturally, we wouldn't be the brainless acolytes that treat him like he's the second coming and the be all and end all of the Trek/Wars debate.

And since we all know that 40,000 tons of fuel per second is perfectly logical (no matter the state of matter it's in) for a ship of the Republic's SD volume, Saxton must have just forgotten to include the space-time warp inside the SD to put it all in there (because the storage tanks are larger on the inside than the outside) because he's really the only one with any kind of degree. He's the only scientist that matters with Wong coming in second, but Saxton is more important because he's "basically determining what is and what isn't Star Wars".

I'd suggest finding a picture of one of the Muppets in a professor uniform while the explanation breaks this down in the simplest, most elementary way possible.

Lord Poe wrote: I'd suggest finding a picture of one of the Muppets in a professor uniform while the explanation breaks this down in the simplest, most elementary way possible.

Nothing's changed about that douchebag. All his arguments are simply the equivalent of that sort of snide scoffing. You need only look at his idiotic "even if we say the Death Star is DET [no, I'm not a mindless scooter cockgoblin for even suggesting that isn't, I swear] there's no way if you scale it down you get 200GT! ... Because ... erm ... just ... Because!"

Vympel wrote:Nothing's changed about that douchebag. All his arguments are simply the equivalent of that sort of snide scoffing. You need only look at his idiotic "even if we say the Death Star is DET [no, I'm not a mindless scooter cockgoblin for even suggesting that isn't, I swear] there's no way if you scale it down you get 200GT! ... Because ... erm ... just ... Because!"

=snicker= I love how Scooter and co. get their panties in a bunch when Scoot's theory is referred to as "Magical Chain Reaction", or MCR!

Lord Poe wrote:Ok Mike, here's a great argument for you to dissect:

Gstone wrote:Of course, because everything goes back to Wong. If it wasn't for him, Darkstar never would have made the arguments he posted on Wong's board, never would have made his site. So, naturally, we wouldn't be the brainless acolytes that treat him like he's the second coming and the be all and end all of the Trek/Wars debate.

So I'm to blame for RSA?

And since we all know that 40,000 tons of fuel per second is perfectly logical (no matter the state of matter it's in) for a ship of the Republic's SD volume,

Ah yes, appeal to personal incredulity and assumption that the ship constantly runs at peak power.

Saxton must have just forgotten to include the space-time warp inside the SD to put it all in there (because the storage tanks are larger on the inside than the outside) because he's really the only one with any kind of degree. He's the only scientist that matters with Wong coming in second, but Saxton is more important because he's "basically determining what is and what isn't Star Wars".

Perhaps this idiot could provide the lists of scientists and engineers on their side of the fence then, since he seems to think that we don't have enough on our side. After all, we've only got real-life military officers, physicists, doctors, astrophysicists, nuclear technicians, mechanical engineers ... obviously we're nowhere near as qualified as a helpdesk operator and his kiddie friends.

What's funny is how these guys declare that if the new ICS posts any numbers that disagree with ICS then the old one is automatically wrong. Of course if, God forbid, the new ICS actually states some numbers which agree with EP2 or EP3 ICS I'd bet good money that they will just shrug it off and say that ICS series doesn't count anyway so it doesn't matter.

Kane Starkiller wrote:What's funny is how these guys declare that if the new ICS posts any numbers that disagree with ICS then the old one is automatically wrong.

Given precedent, if anything happens at all, they'll change the databoxes so they're a consistent format throughout all the entries- OT, TPM, AotC, RotS. This will result at most in some of the explicit AotC:ICS figures from being removed, but no new numbers (except the most basic ones for OT ships) or anything contradictory. That's just a Trektard wet-dream.

It's highly doubtful they'll remove anything like the reactor annihilation quotes from the RotS:ICS, ultra-dense fuel tanks that weigh more than the ship by many orders of magnitude, hypermatter-annihilation reactors (introduced in the OT:ICS by Dr DW Reynolds for the Death Star, the claims of ignorant trektards aside that everything that shits all over their arguments is Dr Saxton's fault) etc etc ad infinitum. (Not to mention the Executor shielding from OT:ITW!)

In any event, like I said, a quick query on sw.com in the holocron thread will put to rest any assertion that the removal of any figures will mean that those figures are "non-canon" in the space of a post.

Of course if, God forbid, the new ICS actually states some numbers which agree with EP2 or EP3 ICS I'd bet good money that they will just shrug it off and say that ICS series doesn't count anyway so it doesn't matter.

Naturally.

Vympel wrote:

Of course if, God forbid, the new ICS actually states some numbers which agree with EP2 or EP3 ICS I'd bet good money that they will just shrug it off and say that ICS series doesn't count anyway so it doesn't matter.

Naturally.

It's not supposed to count now, so why all the hoopla?

Yeah, according to RSA "nothing's canon that's not from LUCAS!111222" so why all the fuzz about books with "non-canon" information getting potentially changed to more "non-canon" information that is "not canon"?

Because deep down they know they're full of shit.

"EU isn't canon" is just a fallback position for fuckwits who can't hold their own in a debate and try and change the evidence rather than have to admit they're full of shit. You see it on SB.com all the time- some idiot makes some claims, you engage him, throw EU evidence at him, he immediately starts whining like a stuck pig about how the EU isn't canon anyway and it's wank and blah blah blah. This sort of attitude will be curiously absent until you bring up something that utterly destroys his argument. He might even throw some EU at you first.

I find it funny that they claim 'the EU is wank' when the OT alone blows most of the EU (barring KJA style garbage wankerweapons) clean out of the water without trying. ANH alone has higher hyperdrive speeds, MUCH higher firepower, shielded TIEs, 1,000s of gs for fighter acceleration, protorps capable of doing 70,000g turns...
TESB introduces the 19km SSD versus the EUs 8km one, the pitiful theater shield can apparently stave off the attack of Executor and a squadron of ISDs for a considerable time while a half handful of ISDs were a threat to Mon Calamari in the abomination that was the Jedi Academy trilogy...

I find it funny that they claim 'the EU is wank' when the OT alone blows most of the EU

Indeed. More recently, the outrageous minimalism of the EU was highlightened in the Traviss vs. the Prequels case. 3,000,000 EU clones fighting a movie Galactic war. Outrageous. Like that "Executor bankrupted the Empire" bullshit from EU (did they listen to Han Solo when he aid "the Empire has plenty of flagships" not being worried in the slightest by the presence of Executor near Endor, or were they on drugs as usual?)...

EU is outrageously minimalistic. Those rifles, that can technically shoot for a few kilometeres - at least a kilometer anyway - were reduced to a 300-meter maximum range.

The only thing that EU had "wankish" was the Suncrusher, but it was a lame technobabble plot device anyway. Just as KJA always does.

Stas Bush wrote:

I find it funny that they claim 'the EU is wank' when the OT alone blows most of the EU

Indeed. More recently, the outrageous minimalism of the EU was highlightened in the Traviss vs. the Prequels case. 3,000,000 EU clones fighting a movie Galactic war. Outrageous. Like that "Executor bankrupted the Empire" bullshit from EU (did they listen to Han Solo when he aid "the Empire has plenty of flagships" not being worried in the slightest by the presence of Executor near Endor, or were they on drugs as usual?)...

KT's bit of the troops is hilarious on it's own...but a far better point is not Han's statement, but the RoTJ and SW itself. If the Executor was every near bankrupting the Empire, then explain the Death Star. Honestly it makes you wonder if KJA watched the movies.

The only thing that EU had "wankish" was the Suncrusher, but it was a lame technobabble plot device anyway. Just as KJA always does.

Strangely enough, the Suncrusher wasn't the most wankish thing. The Jedi Twins and Kyp the wonder dog in KJA's bit were far, far worse in literally upstaging Luke as gods of the Force.