Page 11 of 92
Posted: 2007-06-13 07:34pm
by UCBooties
consequences wrote:Them
Foulness. Evil Incarnate. God's Final Vengeance on His Creation. The Corruptors. All of these names and more have been applied to Them, but usually very briefly. They, for Their part, care not for such petty labels. They only know who They are, and that everyone else who is not They, is both a threat, and potential fuel to further Their propagation.
If you are lucky, when They come, you die. At least then, as simple nutrient mass, the last fragment of your helpless soul is spared watching your body being turned to destroy the souls of everyone nearby, usually your closest friends and family. If you are not lucky, then you exist as a breeding factory as well as a worker drone, and eventually when you are of no further use, as a conveniently self-portable larder.
The one race that was able to make an extended stand theorised that the same racial memory that permeates Them and melds them into a cohesive whole might carry personality fragments and memory forward to the descendants of Their victims, making them potentially recoverable. This race even was able to begin work on a technique to excise Them from an individual host. Unfortunately, they fought and died before any others even learned of them, as Their first victims.
Sorry for the double post but Consequences just reminded me of a question I had earlier. Is it possible to capture enemy ships and are their rules for creating reinforcements?
Posted: 2007-06-13 07:36pm
by Imperial Overlord
Covenant wrote:
I have a question though. If I made a 50 point ship that attacked you by launching jets of high-powered water, even if that is in strict violation of the laws of everything, does it work within the context of the game? This is not my idea, just an example. I'm wondering how much I want to ground my tech in reality. I wouldn't want to suddenly realize that my forces are incapable of dealing damage because someone could justify RPing around them. IE, the degree to which RP dictactes the amount of damage done is, to me, not clear.
Generally you'll want weaponry which causes less strain on SoD than that, but if its a 50pt ship of laser death and going up against a 10pt ship with kickass mirror shields, the uber lasers overload and fry the 10pt sucker. The RP matters, but its not a licence to nerf or power game the other side into impotence. A 50pointer is a 50 pointer.
Posted: 2007-06-13 07:39pm
by Starglider
UCBooties wrote:I realize that if I'm cruising around with a 700 point battleship I'll be the target of every ad-hoc alliance on the map but the small fleet, single base thing just fits a lot better with what I want to do narratively. Any suggestions?
So if this 700pt ship fights a 300 pt fleet the later dies and the former just goes back to dock for some repairs? While if 700 pts of small ships fight a 300 pt fleet the later die and the former are taken down to 550 points or so by attrition? So the value of uberships is survivability, but at the cost of only being in one place at once and also being tempting targets?
If so, makes sense.
Posted: 2007-06-13 07:41pm
by consequences
UCBooties wrote:
Sorry for the double post but Consequences just reminded me of a question I had earlier. Is it possible to capture enemy ships and are their rules for creating reinforcements?
It's a good question, but They won't be bothering with the ship-capture. Far more economical to destroy the enemy and meltdown the leftover bits for Their building projects. They've done the math, and no one has yet survived encountering Them to disprove Their theory.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:03pm
by Crossroads Inc.
Thirdfain wrote:Sounds perfect, though your ships are quite large and powerful, with that destroyer reachin Cruiseer proportions- though, of course, such distincitons are blurred in real life as well (just look at US DDGs and CGs...)
Thats intentional really, You'll notice I don't have all that many ships and only 6 Full Fleets.. Mostly my force holds a crowded, yet small area of Space, as such Im going with Few but Stronger ships.
Of course since I threw out my stats first, I may end up with everyone else deisgning ships more powerful than mine
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:07pm
by Thirdfain
Sorry for the double post but Consequences just reminded me of a question I had earlier. Is it possible to capture enemy ships and are their rules for creating reinforcements?
Ship capture is of course possible, but keep in mind that at Star Trek tech levels, battles are going to (by and large) take place at very long ranges and involve many megatons of firepower going off all over the place. In other words, situations where ship capture could take place will be rare. However, I think that it is a perfectly legitimite activity!
As for reinforcements, generally in STGODs you get 10% (in this case, 150 points) per month of new construction. That's in in-game months, by the way, which are sort of fluid things which happen when everyone agrees that a month has passed in-game. This is due to the fact that a very busy event like a huge state dinner or large battle might take a month in RL time but only last an evening in-game, while a low-post RL week might see multiple weeks pass in-game.
So if this 700pt ship fights a 300 pt fleet the later dies and the former just goes back to dock for some repairs? While if 700 pts of small ships fight a 300 pt fleet the later die and the former are taken down to 550 points or so by attrition? So the value of uberships is survivability, but at the cost of only being in one place at once and also being tempting targets?
Dock? A 700-point ship would have to be simply massive, and would require obscene amounts of infrastructure. Repairs would take years!
Such a thing as a 700=point ship would require special attention and care that it is not, what is the word, exploited? Mods would have an eye on it.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:10pm
by Crossroads Inc.
I'm curious if even my 100pt SuperBB is pushing things... Of course I'd only have one of them
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:12pm
by Starglider
Thirdfain wrote:Dock? A 700-point ship would have to be simply massive, and would require obscene amounts of infrastructure. Repairs would take years!
Well ok, divide the numbers by 10 for a small engagement, my point is that big ships trade flexibility for durability right (because repairs don't normally count against your reinforcement quota)?
Do you agree with the 'static defences have double effectiveness' point? Because otherwise they're worthless, you might as well take a fleet of the same strength and have the mobility.
EDIT: Are borders and location much of an issue or are we assuming FTL is fast enough that anyone can attack anyone at any time?
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:13pm
by Noble Ire
UCBooties wrote:I'd actually like to start with less planets because of the whole pirate thing. I was also going to have only one fleet with a massive flag ship and support craft. Maybe to keep things from getting out of hand I should just start with fewer points? I realize that if I'm cruising around with a 700 point battleship I'll be the target of every ad-hoc alliance on the map but the small fleet, single base thing just fits a lot better with what I want to do narratively. Any suggestions?
I also would require fewer major planets than the norm, due to the "invasion force" nature of my faction. My fleets would probably be more conventional, though; I'll conjure up a descriptor.
By the way, I'd be interested in hearing if any other players aside from SirNitram are planning on employing magic. A number of similar participants might change the nature of my faction somewhat.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:17pm
by Covenant
Crossroads Inc. wrote:I'm curious if even my 100pt SuperBB is pushing things... Of course I'd only have one of them
It's really only worth 3 BB's and a cruiser, so it's a heavyass ship alright but not anything that'd put an SSD to shame, if we counted ISD's as 30 point ships.
Basically, no, it's not pushing it. But the bigger and bigger they get the more logistical problems these ships will cause. A 700 point monster vessel, worth well over 20 battleships, is basically an entire heavy assault fleet designed to engage in a single war-winning battle. However, it can only be in one place. And popping it in the engines could take it out of action a lot more easily than trying to whack 23 battleships.
So, comparitively, a 100 point Ubership is a terrifying sight to see, but it's not the sort of thing that would keep me up at night. If your force really wanted to make a massive flagship around which to base operations, 100 points of mothership isn't terribly unexpected.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:17pm
by Thirdfain
Starglider wrote:
Do you agree with the 'static defences have double effectiveness' point? Because otherwise they're worthless, you might as well take a fleet of the same strength and have the mobility.
Well, since static defenses are free... what precisely do you mean?
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:19pm
by Academia Nut
My faction is what you could call somewhat magical, although they can also fit into a sci-fi setting by virtue of the fact that their abilities can be justified as powers gained from extra-dimensional sources. Here's the first paragraph of my OOB description:
Subspace. Higher dimensions. The Outer Plane. Whatever you choose to call this otherworldly place, this was the forge of the Straltoc people. Once they were human, scientists caught in an experiment gone wrong or perhaps refugees desperate for any method of escape. In any case, only the eldest of them can even vaguely remember the time before their jaunt into a realm where the laws of physics as known by the rest of the universe do not apply, a realm that forced them to evolve.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:20pm
by Covenant
Noble, I'm happy with my general concept but I'm not decided yet on the specifics. I could theoretically employ magic (even if I don't want to), but I'd like to understand the basis of magic if we start using it enmasse. One faction that uses it is an outlier, and could possibly be explained away by the other forces. But if two or three people are magic-flingers then it gets progressively harder to explain, and I'd enjoy trying to find a link between the sources of that magic, so it's at least a shared reality they tap into.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:20pm
by Starglider
Thirdfain wrote:Well, since static defenses are free... what precisely do you mean?
If static defences are free what stops planets from having arbitrarily powerful defences and being impossible to capture/destroy? Are we just going with the player's sense of 'reasonable' for that?
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:24pm
by SirNitram
Enough defenses to mean you have to actually bring a warfleet into orbit should be free, but people should be able to fortify a location, frankly.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:25pm
by Thirdfain
Sure, suggest a method for working it in. I'm game.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:29pm
by Starglider
SirNitram wrote:Enough defenses to mean you have to actually bring a warfleet into orbit should be free, but people should be able to fortify a location, frankly.
Yes. Can a 1 point ship just turn up and start landing ships? How many points worth of ships does it take to BDZ the planet (or at least destroy all the productive areas?). Frankly a x3 or x4 multiplier might well be sensible if the total amount of planetary defences is capped at 100 points or so to prevent any excessive turtling (not that I think anyone is likely to try that anyway).
Do you have to leave a pacification fleet in orbit for a while to capture a planet? That would make sense in that you get to add their production capability to your own, as opposed to blasting it to hell, which would take no time and hurt the opponent but not help your own production.
EDIT: We clearly need some mods appointed. I nominate Thirdfain. Any other volunteers/nominations?
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:30pm
by Tasoth
This is a tough question I'm hoping you guys can field. The faction I want to play doesn't own planets, they just kinda kick around in their giant robotic ships being their robotic selves, setting down on planets, throwing carnivals and soaking information. So what do I do about this? Plus I picture they've been around for a good long time and are rather powerful, just don't use it because they really have no reason to fight. I'd like feed back before jumping down the wrong path.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:31pm
by SirNitram
Simple: Colonial defenses are worth double. Note that colonial defenses will never destroy a fleet(The fleet can always retreat to a safe distance), and can only be moved under the most unlikely of situations, but it means an opponent must devote a specific amount of warships to take that world.
For example, if you have a planetary shield(A notable situation, and thus worth points) worth 100 points over one world, an enemy must keep a fleet of at least 200 points of warships on station to even consider landing troops.
This is, of course, for a straight fight. Mods always get a certain amount of flexibility for sneaky tactics and intelligent plans executed.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:32pm
by Starglider
Tasoth wrote:So what do I do about this?
Take a mild hit to your total points for not having to defend any planets? Say 1200 points instead of 1500 points? To represent the fact that a fair fraction of your ship mass is devoted to factories instead of weapons/defences/engines?
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:34pm
by SirNitram
Starglider wrote:SirNitram wrote:Enough defenses to mean you have to actually bring a warfleet into orbit should be free, but people should be able to fortify a location, frankly.
Yes. Can a 1 point ship just turn up and start landing ships? How many points worth of ships does it take to BDZ the planet (or at least destroy all the productive areas?). Frankly a x3 or x4 multiplier might well be sensible if the total amount of planetary defences is capped at 100 points or so to prevent any excessive turtling (not that I think anyone is likely to try that anyway).
Do you have to leave a pacification fleet in orbit for a while to capture a planet? That would make sense in that you get to add their production capability to your own, as opposed to blasting it to hell, which would take no time and hurt the opponent but not help your own production.
EDIT: We clearly need some mods appointed. I nominate Thirdfain. Any other volunteers/nominations?
BDZ is beyond the scope of this game. That sort of weapon would need to be declared; I think a one-shot weapon of at least 100 points would be a BDZ worth.
General Order 24 is appropriate for Trek, but realize that'd require a battleship grade vessel
above and beyond any defenses. This destroys infrastructure and industry and terrifies the population. The advantage over BDZ is that the BB is still a BB, not a one-shot wonderweapon.
Pacification requires the full attention of the fleet you used to take it. Not the fleet you used to invade the system, just enough to equal out the defenses and the associated troops. How long would be a Mod call.
I volunteered to mod earlier.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:37pm
by Adrian Laguna
I think I'll join the game with the following nation concept:
Space Spaniards complete with Space Catholic Church, Space Inquisition, Space Subjugated Natives, and Space Galleons.
Oh and the Space Holy Relics of the Space Catholic Church can set Space (or otherwise) Heathens on fire.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:40pm
by Starglider
SirNitram wrote:BDZ is beyond the scope of this game. That sort of weapon would need to be declared; I think a one-shot weapon of at least 100 points would be a BDZ worth.
I'm tempted to take a (single) Genesis Device equivalent (even if the point cost is wasteful) just because writing planet-killer narratives is fun. That and I'd have to equip my homeworld with the Asgard Mark XVII Doomsday Device to take any attacking fleet with me when I die.
I volunteered to mod earlier.
Ok, well no one seems to have objected, so I guess you're it.
Is one mod sufficient?
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:41pm
by Academia Nut
Adrian Laguna wrote:I think I'll join the game with the following nation concept:
Space Spaniards complete with Space Catholic Church, Space Inquisition, Space Subjugated Natives, and Space Galleons.
Oh and the Space Holy Relics of the Space Catholic Church can set Space (or otherwise) Heathens on fire.
I think its fair so long as the Space Pope is reptilian.
Posted: 2007-06-13 08:42pm
by SirNitram
Starglider wrote:SirNitram wrote:BDZ is beyond the scope of this game. That sort of weapon would need to be declared; I think a one-shot weapon of at least 100 points would be a BDZ worth.
I'm tempted to take a (single) Genesis Device equivalent (even if the point cost is wasteful) just because writing planet-killer narratives is fun. That and I'd have to equip my homeworld with the Asgard Mark XVII Doomsday Device to take any attacking fleet with me when I die.
Planetary destruction, to say nothing of wiping out nearby fleets, is definately beyond the scope. I don't see a reason not to allow a BDZ-grade weapon for your homeworld as a deadman switch, though. Just realize there will always be a chance to stop it.
I volunteered to mod earlier.
Ok, well no one seems to have objected, so I guess you're it.
Is one mod sufficient?
One mod can do it, yea, if he's trusted by those playing, and he has someone who he trusts to make calls on him and his nation.