StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Zinegata wrote:
Except that's not true. In the case of the Protheans it was explictly stated back in ME2 that their DNA was too complex to Reaperize. That's why they created the Collectors instead - which are essentially Protheans who were indocrtinated into pure slavery.

What I fucking said in my own god damn post wrote: allowing the Reapers to reveal the Protheans aren't dead.

Hint: I don't give a shit what was said in the previous games dude, we're postulating here.

And do remember that the Reapers essentially just abandoned them after "failing".

Who cares? So the Reapers are really Machiavellian in their tactics. Would have made them more interesting than generic bad guys.

So there is really very little to justify the idea that the Reapers are saving anyone because that's their goal. They're genocidal monsters, plain and simple.

Sorry we're bouncing around some ideas for what would have been a more interesting story. We'll remember to keep the discussion about generic "good vs evil" plot points next time so you can follow along more easily.

CaptHawkeye wrote:Hint: I don't give a shit what was said in the previous games dude, we're postulating here.

If you don't give a shit about what happened before then you may as well create any ending you want. Little ponies come and save the Earth! Woohoo!

So really, don't tell me to shut up because there's a glaring plothole in your proposed ending.

Who cares? So the Reapers are really Machiavellian in their tactics. Would have made them more interesting than generic bad guys.

The Dark Matter original ending would have actually made abandoning the Collectors consistent, while giving them more of a motivation than generic bad guys. There is really no way to fix the current ending without resolving the gaping holes in the Catalyst's logic - with the exception of the idea that Pezook already proposed:

The Catalyst is a flawed AI and was trying to solve the problem the wrong way, because it literally can't think outside of the box it was constrained in - the addition of a true intelligence (i.e. Shep) "fixes" it and makes it stop killing.

Attempting to actually claim that the Catalyst was correct will only lead to more glaring plotholes. Its logic was simply fucked up, and inconsistent with what it's been doing.

And either way, it will still be ham-fisted. The Ur-Quan from Star Control 2 were far better tragic villains than the Reapers are.

Thanas wrote:

Well done.

Wow, I didn't know you played ME3 too Thanas.

I don't but some close friends do and talked to me about it.

Zinegata wrote:
So really, don't tell me to shut up because there's a glaring plothole in your proposed ending.

Whatever dude. Sorry I made the wrong offering to your nerd totem. Next time i'll remember how sensitive you are about this stuff.

CaptHawkeye wrote:

Zinegata wrote:
So really, don't tell me to shut up because there's a glaring plothole in your proposed ending.

Whatever dude. Sorry I made the wrong offering to your nerd totem. Next time i'll remember how sensitive you are about this stuff.

Well, the assumption is if you want to make a good ending, you'll try to fix the plotholes - because people do like consistency.

But given that you accuse me of "nerd toteming" you're not actually interested in a good ending, you just want to live in a fantasy world wherein getting turned to liquified mush is making them "immortal" instead of calling a spade a spade :p.

Thanas wrote:I don't but some close friends do and talked to me about it.

Well, at least you were spared first-hand exposure to the Catalyst

Wow.

Why the ‘Retake Mass Effect 3′ Movement is Making History

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3- ... e-right/2/

This is a pretty brutal takedown of the ending. I haven't played the game yet. I honestly don't know if I will.

My advice is to wait. Let Bioware feel the pressure before buying the game. See if they cave.

My sister pre-ordered it for me as a Christmas gift, so I'm really out no more than the price of the DLC.

Stofsk wrote: I haven't played the game yet. I honestly don't know if I will.

I wanted to give it a try but...I don't want to invest 100 hours of my time just for none of it to matter and there being no payoff.

I still recommend the game, despite the ending. The journey is just that good.

Meanwhile, why not do yourself a favor and plop down $20 for a great sleeper like Vanquish or Darksiders?

What do you expect them to do? Make it what people want?

I'm not sure why it's so hard for people do deal with the idea that they don't like something. I only like one Bioware game; I'm not writing angry letters to make them change. I'm playing games I actually like. Just say 'I don't like ME3's ending' and get over it.

But you don't like anything.

Meanwhile, at least this charity drive is doing some tangible good for the world.

It's sure exposing how much entitlement people feel toward games they like, that's for sure.

Is it just expectation? I wanted a giant climax with these features and didn't get it, wah? I mean I love laughing at shitty Bioware writing as much as anyone, but seriosuly. That kind of attitude is why people said 'Metro isn't like Fallout so it sucks' and 'Alpha Protocol isn't like Splinter Cell I hate it'. Like or dislike sormthing based on what it is, not what you expected or wanted it to be.

I can agree with you on a certain extent, however I would also say that having two thirds of the series say "player choices matter" only to throw a giant "oops. They did not" endaround at the fans....is quite dickish. The thing is, the ending is not arising out of the story or feels organic, it apparently feels downright alien and is contrary to the established principles of the fictional universe.

Isn't that just one of the Bioware lies we all know about? Choices matter... To a few spots of dialog and bits of loot. The importing history thing has never been what it was sold as, and Bioware finales have always been forced and shit. ME1s ending 'choices' were farcical rubbish, but people loved it.

How much of the sudden change is actually because it's the last game and people can't think 'how will they go with this in the next game'?

Stark wrote:Isn't that just one of the Bioware lies we all know about? Choices matter... To a few spots of dialog and bits of loot. The importing history thing has never been what it was sold as, and Bioware finales have always been forced and shit.

To be honest, it was not always that way. BG2 choices did matter. I cannot speak for any other Bioware game since then because I did not play any of the recent games, NWN was a linear game with no NPC interactions to speak of - same with KOTOR.

It depends on the game. With Dragon Age 1 there were quite a number of meaningful differences in the ending - who lives, who dies. Whether it's the Warden who makes a heroic sacrifice or it's Loghain.

All roads lead to the Blight being defeated - but who's left and who's the hero can vary widely, and the differences are much more meaningful than the variants in the ME3 ending (i.e. A martyred Warden vs Loghain redeeming himself despite being the "villain" for most of the game).

I doubt anyone thinks there's anything wrong with laughing at shit writing. But tying to pressure developers into, I dunno, DLCing in a more acceptable finale is just funny as shit. Must make game like what I want!

Stark wrote:I doubt anyone thinks there's anything wrong with laughing at shit writing. But tying to pressure developers into, I dunno, DLCing in a more acceptable finale is just funny as shit. Must make game like what I want!

Hmmmm. If this were just about one or two things (like: ZOMG. Character I liked died. NOOOOOO) I would say the same. But this seems a complete betrayal of the core game's philosophy. Like, apparently the game is about tolerance and shows synthetics and organics living together in peace yet at the end it is all simplistic BAD SYNTHIES/ORGANICS. Especially as Bioware essentially committed fraud by stating several times over "players choices matter" and in the end...they don't.

Stark wrote:I doubt anyone thinks there's anything wrong with laughing at shit writing. But tying to pressure developers into, I dunno, DLCing in a more acceptable finale is just funny as shit. Must make game like what I want!

Well, when you've got well over 80% of the fans unhappy with the ending, it's not unprecedented to tweak it in a patch. Fallout 3 changed the ending after everyone pointed out how stupid it was for the Wanderer to commit suicide by radiation poisoning when you can bring along a companion who was radiation immune and could do the job without dying.

And personally, given that the most popular alternate ending boils down to rejecting Little Hitler and his stupid "solution", I'd actually say it speaks well for the fan base. They figured out just how catastrophically wrong the Catalyst's logic is, and are rejecting it entirely in favor of everything else that the series has been about - Bringing together people, looking beyond "racial" lines, and choosing to do what's right even if it's hard and involves sacrifice.

Stark wrote:I doubt anyone thinks there's anything wrong with laughing at shit writing. But tying to pressure developers into, I dunno, DLCing in a more acceptable finale is just funny as shit. Must make game like what I want!

I don't know dude, like I can kinda see what people mean when they say that gamers are whining or are entitled. I was prepared to say that too, but I went ahead and googled the endings and saw them on youtube.

And... they both a) don't make sense and b) aren't much different from each other. So, it just leaves me wondering wtf happened in the writer's room when they were signing off on this.

Like, there's bad writing which is plain bad, and who cares? There is bad writing which is still 'fun' to watch, and laugh at because it's so bad it's good. And then there's bad writing which feels like they took everything that was good about the story and chucked it in the bin.

Do I think there should be a DLC ending? I honestly don't know. It's the kind of ending where you could literally ignore it and substitute one of your own into it, and the game would be better for it. Because it comes across as really amateur-hour, first-year writing course style stuff.

Dude the message I got from ME was pretty seriously racist and discriminatory and violent. And Bioware just told people what they tricked themselves into believing.

Chris, lots of games have bad endings. Why don't we always pressure developers into putting aside their own vision for additional fanservice? Like I said, the ME1 endings sucked shit out of my anus and people didn't just not whine; they liked them.

Stark wrote:Dude the message I got from ME was pretty seriously racist and discriminatory and violent. And Bioware just told people what they tricked themselves into believing.

Have you actually played the game?

This is seriously one of the few sci-fi series that actually attempts to portray aliens as "People just like us" that actually suceeds. It seems to me that you've only played a very limited portion of the game if this was the message that you got.

Cite some actual examples of this supposed racism and discrimination.