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Next Episode is going to be stupid again:
Spoiler The good Thing is we finally get to Harry Mudd.

Does anyone recall what position Micheal was given when Sarek bought her aboard the Shenzou ?

Because I'd like to be sure of just how much of the normal process of going through Stafleet Academy and climbing the ranks she managed to skip, but I'm not rewatching the pilot just for that.

I am not certain seeing Mudd portrayed as some sort of wiseass who is soooo smart and smug and snarky is going to be a good thing...

What the FUCK is with the picture of the giant waterbear in the ship's engine?!?!?

bilateralrope wrote: 2017-10-13 01:04pm Does anyone recall what position Micheal was given when Sarek bought her aboard the Shenzou ?

Because I'd like to be sure of just how much of the normal process of going through Stafleet Academy and climbing the ranks she managed to skip, but I'm not rewatching the pilot just for that.

Her position wasn't mentioned.

Maybe since Vulcan is a founding member of the Federation vulcans have the option to join Starfleet without going through the Academy if they completed the Vulcan Science Academy.

She might have been assign as Ensign/Lieutenant j.g. and worked her way up to Commander in the seven years under Giorgiou.
Which would mean 3 or 4 promotions within seven years.

LadyTevar wrote: 2017-10-13 06:27pm What the FUCK is with the picture of the giant waterbear in the ship's engine?!?!?

Wikipedia's synopsis of Episode 04 suggests there's a symbiotic relationship between "Ripper" and the spores that power(?) the spore drive, making the latter's jumps more accurate.

tezunegari wrote: 2017-10-13 07:35pm

bilateralrope wrote: 2017-10-13 01:04pm Does anyone recall what position Micheal was given when Sarek bought her aboard the Shenzou ?

Because I'd like to be sure of just how much of the normal process of going through Stafleet Academy and climbing the ranks she managed to skip, but I'm not rewatching the pilot just for that.

Her position wasn't mentioned.

Maybe since Vulcan is a founding member of the Federation vulcans have the option to join Starfleet without going through the Academy if they completed the Vulcan Science Academy.

She might have been assign as Ensign/Lieutenant j.g. and worked her way up to Commander in the seven years under Giorgiou.
Which would mean 3 or 4 promotions within seven years.

It would make more sense if Burnham served aboard a Vulcan defense vessel before she transferred to the Shenzhou. Is there any mention of her prior military service? Or does 'Discovery' repeat the 2009 film's assumption that specialized training and experience are unnecessary for a starship's XO and CO?

Sidewinder wrote: 2017-10-14 01:06am

tezunegari wrote: 2017-10-13 07:35pm

bilateralrope wrote: 2017-10-13 01:04pm Does anyone recall what position Micheal was given when Sarek bought her aboard the Shenzou ?

Because I'd like to be sure of just how much of the normal process of going through Stafleet Academy and climbing the ranks she managed to skip, but I'm not rewatching the pilot just for that.

Her position wasn't mentioned.

Maybe since Vulcan is a founding member of the Federation vulcans have the option to join Starfleet without going through the Academy if they completed the Vulcan Science Academy.

She might have been assign as Ensign/Lieutenant j.g. and worked her way up to Commander in the seven years under Giorgiou.
Which would mean 3 or 4 promotions within seven years.

It would make more sense if Burnham served aboard a Vulcan defense vessel before she transferred to the Shenzhou. Is there any mention of her prior military service? Or does 'Discovery' repeat the 2009 film's assumption that specialized training and experience are unnecessary for a starship's XO and CO?

Nothing about her early life, beyond 'parents killed by klingons', 'victim of klingon terror bombing', 'ward of Sarek', 'first human Alumni of Vulcan Learning Center and Vulcan Science Academy' was given.

Episode 1.02: 00:01:00 - 00:03:30
Her original plans were to join the Vulcan Expeditionary Group. No explanation what that group is or does was given.

Maybe they will reveal more details in later episodes.

Until then I will consider the idea of some sort of educational accreditation system for Federation member worlds.

Her original plans were to join the Vulcan Expeditionary Group. No explanation what that group is or does was given.

Maybe this is a reference to the USS Intrepid, which was crewed entirely by Vulcans. (TOS: The Immunity Syndrome)

THAT was supposed to be a D-7?? Someone tell me again this aint a retconn? Sweet Jesus
And Mudd. I would have disintegrated the motherfucker. Or bayoneted him for extra pain. THEN FUCKING DISINTEGRATED HIM

Two scence I absolutely loved:

1. Stamets, Tilly and Burnham working on the subsitute. "You guys, this is so fucking cool! I'm so sorry." "No, Cadet. This is fucking cool!"
2. The bathroom scene at the end just before the plot hook.

Choose your pain:

1. Why wasn't the Discovery at the spacestation? They send the highest ranking field operative of this project alone, without escort close enough to enemy territory that a klingon ship can intercept him?! IN A SHUTTLE?!
2. Saru is an idiot. "The only thing making the spore drive work is getting weaker with every jump. It might die." "I don't care. We just have to jump deep into enemy territory"
3. Why is rapey bitch klingon still alive? Okay, burning of half her face might sound satisfying... but so is desintegration.
4. Why is Harry Mudd still alive? He is now a known Conspirator, and unless he is not a federation citizen, a traitor. And unless he received a pardon later, Kirk shouldn't have treated him like a small time conman in TOS.
5. Lorca killed the whole crew of the Buran, his last command?!
6. A D7 used as a prison ship?

The ending: W T F ?! Subtle way to say mirror universe... or mushroom clone... or worse.

Why is rapey bitch klingon still alive? ...

Possible recurring baddie in the future. I like her, I totally dig the white armor and the red spikes too.

Special thanks to sonofspock1 who writes: "Hilariously, Faith of the Heart fits perfectly to the DSC title sequence. And you know, it's kind of a better fit for it than Russo's theme."

I also noticed that this clip is a clean intro with no titles, I need to save this clip.

You know the show might be fine if it would have classic ST themes.

As it is it tries to be nBSG without the things that made it great and it falls prey to so many cliched old tropes.

tezunegari wrote: 2017-10-16 06:03am Why is rapey bitch klingon still alive? Okay, burning of half her face might sound satisfying... but so is desintegration

Cos that's L'Rell, the woman from the last few episodes. And Lt Ashley Tyler is Voq in disguise. He's been altered (and possibly had his memories changed) and he's going to be a Spy on the discovery. The Tribble that Lorca keeps on his desk will be Voq's undoing in the end.

Prometheus Unbound wrote: 2017-10-17 08:13am

tezunegari wrote: 2017-10-16 06:03am Why is rapey bitch klingon still alive? Okay, burning of half her face might sound satisfying... but so is desintegration

Cos that's L'Rell, the woman from the last few episodes. And Lt Ashley Tyler is Voq in disguise. He's been altered (and possibly had his memories changed) and he's going to be a Spy on the discovery. The Tribble that Lorca keeps on his desk will be Voq's undoing in the end.

Please tell me you are not serious.

Thanas wrote: 2017-10-17 08:17am

Prometheus Unbound wrote: 2017-10-17 08:13am

tezunegari wrote: 2017-10-16 06:03am Why is rapey bitch klingon still alive? Okay, burning of half her face might sound satisfying... but so is desintegration

Cos that's L'Rell, the woman from the last few episodes. And Lt Ashley Tyler is Voq in disguise. He's been altered (and possibly had his memories changed) and he's going to be a Spy on the discovery. The Tribble that Lorca keeps on his desk will be Voq's undoing in the end.

Please tell me you are not serious.

Totally. That's definitely L'Rell - and she's descended from Spies. And it's the same actor playing Voq and Ashley. And Lorca has a Tribble which detects Klingons in disguise (Trouble with Tribbles). And then they conveniently escaped back to the Discovery, the single ship the Klingons are looking for.

Prometheus Unbound wrote: 2017-10-17 08:48am

Thanas wrote: 2017-10-17 08:17am

Prometheus Unbound wrote: 2017-10-17 08:13am


Cos that's L'Rell, the woman from the last few episodes. And Lt Ashley Tyler is Voq in disguise. He's been altered (and possibly had his memories changed) and he's going to be a Spy on the discovery. The Tribble that Lorca keeps on his desk will be Voq's undoing in the end.

Please tell me you are not serious.

Totally. That's definitely L'Rell - and she's descended from Spies. And it's the same actor playing Voq and Ashley. And Lorca has a Tribble which detects Klingons in disguise (Trouble with Tribbles). And then they conveniently escaped back to the Discovery, the single ship the Klingons are looking for.

The only other human-form klingon "spy" ever seen was Arne Darvin in TOS and DS9 and he was found with a standard medical tricorder scan.
So, either their protocol for rescued POWs lacks medical attention and debriefing, they have none or they find out next episode and Lorca pulls a "we know he's a spy. he looks hungry, let's feed him."

What I find more interesting is, this felt as if the klingons knew exactly who Lorca was, where he was and that he would be alone. They already have spies or at least sources within high levels of Starfleet/Federation including access to at least knowledge of the existence of the Discovery project.

They might not know the details but they know Lorca is important.

tezunegari wrote: 2017-10-17 10:53am
The only other human-form klingon "spy" ever seen was Arne Darvin in TOS and DS9 and he was found with a standard medical tricorder scan.

But only after a Tribble tipped them off. They had no idea to look. However he was a guest, not a POW like...

So, either their protocol for rescued POWs lacks medical attention and debriefing, they have none or they find out next episode and Lorca pulls a "we know he's a spy. he looks hungry, let's feed him."

Yes I have a feeling Lorca is suspicious because he outright said he thought Ashley was lying about being there 6 months.

And he WAS lying. L'Rell hasn't been there for 6 months. She's been there for three and a half weeks.

So we know:

L'Rell isn't the normal captain
Ashley is a liar
Voq is mysteriously absent after L'Rell said she'd help him. He said he'd be willing to "lose anything" (everything?)
The same actor plays both Voq and Ashley
L'Rell is a spy / from a spy family
Ashley's crew and ship are all dead so no one confirms his personality
Lorca doesn't believe him

Combined with the pet Tribble that we know can detect Klingons In Disguise - and it's the same damned actor ><

Now, they can mask life signs - including Human to Klingon (DS9 - Apocalypse Rising). And we know the surgery is possible (Trouble with Tribbles). It's also the second time the Trouble with Tribbles guy did it - and the second time he managed to get on the Defiant and such - transporting and beaming - and no one seems to have noticed they were Klingon life signs, not Human ones.

What I find more interesting is, this felt as if the klingons knew exactly who Lorca was, where he was and that he would be alone. They already have spies or at least sources within high levels of Starfleet/Federation including access to at least knowledge of the existence of the Discovery project.

That could have been intercepted transmissions though.

They might not know the details but they know Lorca is important.

Exactly. And they want someone on board to find out what.

If that's the master plan, then the writers here truly are fucking morons
For if WE can unravel it in 30 seconds, the only way it works is if the entire rest of Starfleet are complete fucking retards, AND "ze plotz demandz it!!" Another point in favour of your theory, they killed the first poor shmuck, but only beat up this other guy. Have to rewatch it to look for more details

Have to rewatch it to look for more detail

That's how they win...

Subtitles confirm that it is L'Rell...

Maybe the other guy that was killed at the beginning was the real Ash Tyler?

If this Ash is Voq, then whatever the Matriarchs did is mindboggling.
Full body cosmetic surgery (Ash looks physically smaller than Voq to me, might be the klingon armor and clothing though)
removal of sensory organs (did they also remove the secondary organs klingons have?)
changes to the voicebox?
language training (even though Lorca calls L'rells english excellent, it sounds slightly off to me, a sort of background growling)

Another thing that came to me:
How advanced are Starfleets artificial hearts and reanimation techniques at this point in time?
Could Burnham have transported back with Giorgiou to sickbay and have her reanimated like what happened Picard?
If so, Saru is the one responsible for Giorgous death, not Burnham.

Patroklos wrote: 2017-10-17 12:22pm

Have to rewatch it to look for more detail

That's how they win...

It's free here; which is the only reason why....

Burak Gazan wrote: 2017-10-17 12:03pm If that's the master plan, then the writers here truly are fucking morons
For if WE can unravel it in 30 seconds,

Well we know all the machinations on both sides. Of course we, as the viewer, know information that Starfleet doesn't. That's... the nature of stories with antagonists / protagonists and two or more locations. We have the "full" picture (or many of the pieces) whilst they each don't.

Star Trek has a history of surgically altering people for spy missions. Klingons to Humans, Humans to Klingons (multiple times) included. It's not a bad plan, either. "Get a spy on their most important ship" is a good plan.

Star Trek has a history of surgically altering people for spy missions. Klingons to Humans, Humans to Klingons (multiple times) included. It's not a bad plan, either. "Get a spy on their most important ship" is a good plan.

They do. They also seem to require us to always never THINK when the retard level is dialed above 12. A full physical for returning POWs would be normal. But, we also know from prior films, that THAT level of not-been-done , ultimately caused the destruction of 1701-D. Thanks a fucking lot, BEV....