The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

[LadyTevar]

The issue with Ahsoka's montrals/lekku are that they used a physical prop instead of CGI and a lot of action sequences as well. It was a compromise between "it looks the way we want it to" and "it has to stay on the person's head while they're moving around". Gosh darn it to heck, I hate it when reality intrudes into my SF that way!

This is why I had no problem with how she looked. Plus, I thought the physical makeup worked better than adding it via CGI.

Now... can we talk again about the BACKDROPS? Especially in the scenes of Ahsoka communing with Grogu in front of that huge moon? Seriously, that CGI room is amazing! Also the "Japanese garden" that Morgan Elsbeth lived in

[Knife]

1) Yeah, I read/heard somewhere the Leku bit was due to it being a physical prop and the bigger one would not stay on her head while she was doing stuff. I can accept the smaller ones. It's more the 'plastic' look her face has. Like I said, not sure if they used CGI to smooth things out causing a plastic look, or if it's an angle/makeup/lens thing with the camera. I don't know what to call it, perhaps it just hits uncanny valley for me at times. It was also very dark through out the episode, made me wonder if they needed to the make her make up work.

2) They painted themselves into a corner with the sword fight. They put in a Beskar spear so she could fight against a Jedi (man that Beskar stuff is literally just laying around all over the galaxy) but then it had to be a 'good fight' thematically. They could have just had Asoka sidestep that problem. Deflect a couple blows and then Force Push her down to defeat her. But nope, they wanted the Samuri fight. They could have done an Obi/Maul bit in the desert, the duel of Masters where all the build up is just getting ready for the fight and have it done quick. Hell, Asoka could have just slid her saber down the shaft and but Elsbeth's hands off. You can talk without hands.

[Galvatron]

Meh, even Pre Vizsla made the likes of Obi-Wan and Darth Maul put some effort into their duels with him. Just because an opponent isn't a Force-user doesn't automatically make them a pushover.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah it's a matter of Force user being experienced, trained or powerful enough to use the Force in that way and not arrogant enough to loose their cool and thus concentration in the middle of battle and be unable to use the Force.

We also got remember that Ahsoka left the Jedi Order in her mid teens and there was probably no-one who could train her in lightsaber dueling after that, sure she'd have some experience due to fighting for her life but your typical Stormtrooper isn't gonna pose much of a challenge probably only enough to keep her from getting worse.

As for the Lekku yeah isn't due them being physical prop instead of CGI, from what I've read the actor playing Shaak'ti said the Lekku caused issues for her during fighting.

EDIT:I wonder if the somewhat baggy clothes were to hide/downplay the fact that Dawson doesn't quite have the same build as Ahsoka (while not fat by any rational standard Rosario Dawson isn't quite as slim as Ahsoka, though then again thanks to being an animate character Ahsoka is so slim even in her 30s that it might be hard to find an actress who could fit her body type).

[Galvatron]

I actually prefer how they swept back the montrals (not lekku) on the top of Ahsoka's head, but then I never warmed up to Shaak Ti's look anyway.

[Broomstick]

1) Yeah, I read/heard somewhere the Leku bit was due to it being a physical prop and the bigger one would not stay on her head while she was doing stuff. I can accept the smaller ones. It's more the 'plastic' look her face has. Like I said, not sure if they used CGI to smooth things out causing a plastic look, or if it's an angle/makeup/lens thing with the camera. I don't know what to call it, perhaps it just hits uncanny valley for me at times. It was also very dark through out the episode, made me wonder if they needed to the make her make up work

I think it may just be a thick layer of make up - that skin tone is not Rosario Dawson's natural color, after all. Bringing the character to live action involved some compromises. Personally, I'm OK with that because, for one thing, I never watched the animated shows and am barely acquainted with them, and also I'm aware that animation and live action are two different media and require some "translation" or adaption when moving between them.

What's important is that live-action Ahsoka worked as a character within the live action show. I think that was accomplished.

If anything bothered me about the costuming it was the montrals - a couple times my mind saw "foam rubber" instead of "part of an alien body" but those moments were brief and suspension of disbelief resumed quickly.

[LadyTevar]

There's been the start of "Who is the Jedi Grogu calls" discussion on Facebook.
Someone posted very nice artwork of both a post-Endor Luke, and a post-Rebels Ezra (who has a scarred eye for some reason?).

Personally, I'm tired of Skywalkers. I want to see Ezra.

[Batman]

Ezra was an even worse student than Luke. Can't see him working very well as a teacher.

[Lonestar]

There's been the start of "Who is the Jedi Grogu calls" discussion on Facebook.
Someone posted very nice artwork of both a post-Endor Luke, and a post-Rebels Ezra (who has a scarred eye for some reason?).

Personally, I'm tired of Skywalkers. I want to see Ezra.

Since we're in the middle of rescuing pre-Disney EU themes(e.g. Military-oriented Imperial Remnants rather than First Order bullshit) I'm betting big on Joruus C'Boath

[LadyTevar]

Since we're in the middle of rescuing pre-Disney EU themes(e.g. Military-oriented Imperial Remnants rather than First Order bullshit) I'm betting big on Joruus C'Boath

Oh gods I hope not. I know he's part of the Thrawn Trilogy, but still.

[Agent Fisher]

And bring back Luuke Skywalker while they're at it!

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

And bring back Luuke Skywalker while they're at it!

Played by Sebastian "Mark Hamill's son" Stan, of course!

[Galvatron]

So much to unpack from this new episode.

Spoiler

Old Boba's getting a little thick around the middle these days. He's like Robert Baratheon trying to squeeze into his armor.

Then again, Temuera Morrison wasn't the guy wearing the suit in TESB. That was Jeremy Bulloch. It looked similarly strange on Timothy Olyphant's build too.

I can't say I'm sad to see the Razor Crest go. I never thought it was a particularly inspired design, but now I'm wondering if Mando is going to wind up inheriting the Slave I at some point.

Stormtroopers were "paper people" yet again. Gideon must have an inexhaustible supply if he's willing to throw them into the meat grinder like that over and over.

I never expected a Jedi to just show up, but now the call has gone out. Someone significant is bound to take notice and make an appearance in a later episode.

As I suspected, Gideon's cruiser isn't a common sight. Boba Fett himself took it as confirmation that the Empire is back in a significant way.

The dark troopers were disappointing. The CG effects looked like 2004 BSG cylons to me. Their design sucks too.

[Juubi Karakuchi]

That was rather fun.
Spoiler

I have to agree about the Dark troopers. It's great to have them included, but I was kind of hoping they would be powered armour like the Phase III. Ah well.

I found this episode interesting, because we actually see stormtrooper combat in a little more detail. No lack of courage there (kudos to the gunner particularly), but unfortunately the same could not be said of their competence.

The choice of landing site was reasonable; flat and stable, and right next to the Razor Crest so they can secure it. Upon coming under fire as they came down the ramp, their response was to charge straight at Boba and Fennec. This was not totally unreasonable, as the rocks were the only available cover, but it might have helped to zig-zag, at least. That they did not use the shuttle's guns for fire support seems an oversight, at least at that early stage; though it can be explained by the risk of hitting The Child/Grogu. At least one of the stormtroopers was using cover, but many seemed inclined to stand or walk and shoot; which struck me as a good way to get killed, even though the closest I've ever come to combat is FPS shooters. The troopers didn't seem to be outflanking much, and the only one giving orders or taking any initiative, or so it seemed, was the officer (orange pauldron). The mortar was a nice touch, and two troopers were able to get an Eweb set up (contrast to a whole squad to lug it into position in episode .

So, the stormies were let down by their customary poor accuracy; or else doomed by character shield, depending on your point of view. They just couldn't seem to lay any hits, while our heroes were knocking them down like ninepins. Aside from that, their problem seemed to be doctrinal. We know from Rebels (and Resistance) that the Imperial (and First Order) way is to keep on advancing, never mind the casualties. They also seem to lack initiative at the lowest levels, simply advancing or hunkering down and shooting instead of spreading out and outflanking; with only the officer bothering to insist on it. That said, the Empire probably doesn't want its stormtroopers doing any thinking when they could be obeying orders without question.

[LadyTevar]

I TOLD YOU IT WAS BOBA FETT!
(sorry, had an argument with FB folks and just have to get that out of the system)

But seriously after all the RazorCrest had been through, and then getting all spiffied up last ep... DUDE! That was his HOME! That was our new Falcon, dammit! YOU KILLED RAZORCREST YOU BASTARDS!

And nice cliffhanger, as we have to wait to see who joins Mando's little jailbreak

[Batman]

Could've lived without them bringing back Boba.
Beskar is really making Imperial smallarms look bad. Mando essentially 'ignored' the Stormtroopers shooting at him 'and hitting'.
Droid Dark Troopers looked bad and leave the question what do they need Baby Yoda for (no I'm not calling him by his terrible name).
Also is it me or was the RazorCrest obliterated by a RED turbolaser bolt?

[Galvatron]

Droid Dark Troopers looked bad and leave the question what do they need Baby Yoda for (no I'm not calling him by his terrible name).

Wasn't it obvious two episodes ago?

Also, it occurs to me that stormtroopers would probably be a lot more effective in battle if they just set their blasters to stun more often.

[Broomstick]

Beskar is really making Imperial smallarms look bad. Mando essentially 'ignored' the Stormtroopers shooting at him 'and hitting'

That would explain why beskar is so valuable.

More and more I think stormtrooper "armor" is intended to protect them from unarmed or lightly armed civilians because it doesn't seem to do jack against more powerful side arms. Also, the stormtroopers clearly are intended as cannonfodder. I'm guessing the training is minimal, indoctrination maximal, and the upper level Imperials considered them cheap and expendable.

[Galvatron]

If Thrawn is working with Gideon, maybe they'll bring back Spaarti cloning cylinders to explain their seemingly endless supply of stormtroopers.

[Patroklos]

Beskar is really making Imperial smallarms look bad. Mando essentially 'ignored' the Stormtroopers shooting at him 'and hitting'

That would explain why beskar is so valuable.

More and more I think stormtrooper "armor" is intended to protect them from unarmed or lightly armed civilians because it doesn't seem to do jack against more powerful side arms. Also, the stormtroopers clearly are intended as cannonfodder. I'm guessing the training is minimal, indoctrination maximal, and the upper level Imperials considered them cheap and expendable.

Except it can be shattered by a simple melee staff hit. And pierced by the other side. And it's not Beskar, because there was a special note from Fett when he sees the Beskar spear. Mando is apparently invincible now, but only from Imperial weapons because he cowers from every other version of a blaster including Fetts.

Going back a bit because I couldn't see the episode until recently:

Chapter 13:

Overall some good bones, but with the same issues of the past. Ashoka looked good to me. I am basically seeing her for the first time because I could never stand the animation style of Clone Wars and Rebels just plain sucked. Overall a good character. Assassin droids went from unstoppable killing machines in season one to pushovers like every other enemy. And once again, all the enemies were pushovers. After the opening scene, we all knew this, you can't go back from that and pretend for the rest of the episode there is still some challenge for Ashoka to overcome or that she needed "help." When the time came did she use Mando to infiltrate the site in some clever way? Nope, hey diddle diddle straight up the middle through the front gate by herself without a single setback or challenge to cause tension. Boss fight was okay on style, but again I never believed Ashoka was challenged.

Whatever her name is apparently still working production at planetary scale based on the orbital visuals and Ashoka/Mando's conversation, yet has a few dozen incapable mooks (including their captain) on retainer? This was holding Ashoka or anyone else back? The ugly head of minimalism is all over this.

Chapter 14:

Again, there is no enemy that presents a challenge to the heroes, so we have no heroes. The second I saw an Imperial landing craft I already knew exactly how things were going to go and am just hoping it doesn't take up too much screen time. In this case, it was a long, excruciating, drawn-out yawn. Mortars (white, cringe) that do nothing, big bulky CSW used to no effect, a boulder rolling in a straight line with storm troopers doing their best Charlize Theron impression, and on and on. Not a single shot from the good guys missed. Every shot from the bad guys missed unless the guy was wearing invincible armor, then they all hit exactly on that armor but nowhere else.

These action scenes should be desperate struggles our heroes barely escape with their lives, not procedural paint by numbers that make me think I am watching a factory working stamping out widgets on an assembly line. That's exactly how fun it is to watch them. At no point did I think there was any danger.

Why did we lead with stormtroopers? No in universes reason. I might believe they did it as a diversion to let the Dark Troopers do their thing, but they did in sequence rather than concurrently.

Why did they waste the Razercrest but not Slave I? If you somehow could only do one, in episode logic they should have done it the other way around since conceivable the child might have been in the Razercrest. It would have been kind of impactful to see Slave I show up just to be destroyed for good.

Why did they not shoot down slave one when it was pursuing the Dark Troopers?

And as said before, god those Dark Troopers are shit, it both concept and execution. And we don't get to see them do anything but fly, SO BADASS!

Our heroes are idiots and failures. Given the lack of enemy challenge and the ease with which they dispatched them, the only reason they lost the child is that they were too busy getting max score and exchanging shitty one-liners to notice to protect him.

The biggest sin of this episode, and now the series, is the minimalism regarding the Imperial remnant. Before this episode, we were led to believe there were scattered Imperial remnants of means, if not a flat out rump state, scattered about keeping the New Republic and independent worlds on thier tows. A near infinite space to craft stories of all types. But no, of whatever is left this single light cruiser is a notable exception and everyone else has nothing better or equal in the entire galaxy. At least not anything overtly active. What a waste. Or Fett is an idiot.

[Knife]

Meh. They're just loading up on guest appearances aren't they?

Besides more glorious shots of the Arqitens, this episode was a little lack luster. They at least tried to show small unit tactics but the heroes still just stomped through them. Nice to know that even with crew served automatic weapons and motars, all you really need is a sniper.

[Galvatron]

The biggest sin of this episode, and now the series, is the minimalism regarding the Imperial remnant. Before this episode, we were led to believe there were scattered Imperial remnants of means, if not a flat out rump state, scattered about keeping the New Republic and independent worlds on thier tows. A near infinite space to craft stories of all types. But no, of whatever is left this single light cruiser is a notable exception and everyone else has nothing better or equal in the entire galaxy. At least not anything overtly active. What a waste. Or Fett is an idiot.

Maybe it was the cruiser's presence at Tython that was notable, not its existence. It may be a major violation of the Empire's treaty with the New Republic to venture outside of their own territory, thus signifying they were "back" and ready to rumble.

[LadyTevar]

The biggest sin of this episode, and now the series, is the minimalism regarding the Imperial remnant. Before this episode, we were led to believe there were scattered Imperial remnants of means, if not a flat out rump state, scattered about keeping the New Republic and independent worlds on thier tows. A near infinite space to craft stories of all types. But no, of whatever is left this single light cruiser is a notable exception and everyone else has nothing better or equal in the entire galaxy. At least not anything overtly active. What a waste. Or Fett is an idiot.

Maybe it was the cruiser's presence at Tython that was notable, not its existence. It may be a major violation of the Empire's treaty with the New Republic to venture outside of their own territory, thus signifying they were "back" and ready to rumble.

The New Republic has jurisdiction over the OuterRim, on paper if not in fact. Otherwise the OuterRim is run as always by the Guilds with or without Criminal Elements like the Hutts. A Remnant cruiser, even on a back-world like Tython had become, is a bad sign for anyone to see.

Especially if you tie that into what Lady Elsbeth was doing in the last episode, mining planets dry for materials to feed the Empire's war-footing. That cruiser may not be a Remnant, but something built by the Remnants post-Endor. THAT would be a big "Oh fuck they're back".

[Knife]

The biggest sin of this episode, and now the series, is the minimalism regarding the Imperial remnant. Before this episode, we were led to believe there were scattered Imperial remnants of means, if not a flat out rump state, scattered about keeping the New Republic and independent worlds on thier tows. A near infinite space to craft stories of all types. But no, of whatever is left this single light cruiser is a notable exception and everyone else has nothing better or equal in the entire galaxy. At least not anything overtly active. What a waste. Or Fett is an idiot.

Maybe it was the cruiser's presence at Tython that was notable, not its existence. It may be a major violation of the Empire's treaty with the New Republic to venture outside of their own territory, thus signifying they were "back" and ready to rumble.

The New Republic has jurisdiction over the OuterRim, on paper if not in fact. Otherwise the OuterRim is run as always by the Guilds with or without Criminal Elements like the Hutts. A Remnant cruiser, even on a back-world like Tython had become, is a bad sign for anyone to see.

Especially if you tie that into what Lady Elsbeth was doing in the last episode, mining planets dry for materials to feed the Empire's war-footing. That cruiser may not be a Remnant, but something built by the Remnants post-Endor. THAT would be a big "Oh fuck they're back".

I don't know if I buy that. It's an Arqitens. Arguably one of my favorite SW ships, but still an old Republic design that goes back to at least the Clone Wars. Just using it means a smaller resource base than if it was an Imperator Class. They go through Stormtroopers like candy but can't go through fleet officers that way to man an ISD. An Arqiten's though, need only 750 peeps, not thousands.

[Galvatron]

Yeah, that cruiser is an old design that was widely used by the Empire in Rebels.

There's also a bit of controversy over Tython's location now. The old and new EU place it in the Deep Core, but this episode partially conflicts with that. The Razor Crest's navicomputer (translated from the Aurebesh display) supports the EU, but Fennec Shand's dialogue implied they were on the Outer Rim in this episode.

FWIW, the new EU also says that the Galactic Concordance ceded portions of the Inner Rim and Core to the Empire (with the exception of Coruscant).

In spite of all this, loyal portions of the Imperial Navy adhered to the terms of the Concordance and confined themselves to the predetermined boundaries. In turn, the now-reduced Imperial Navy existed as a weakened force. Star Destroyers throughout the Core and Inner Rim did not attack the Republic, and maintained a peaceful co-existence with the reigning galactic government.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Imperi ... Inner_Rim)