StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Spill.

Ace Pace wrote:Spill.

Sure thing! Spilled in the sidequests thread.

Sad but true - I'm pretty much over Oblivion already.

It's a damn cool game, and all... but the levelling, and the sometimes-restrictive missions design (try and make a 'sucks at combat' char and see how much fun the main quest is), and... well, I just can't think of a reason to play. The skill system is broken (as people have noted, it's so abusable you can finish the game at a very low level or level really fast), the quests either pathetically baby you with GPS pointers or say 'over there' and leave you to turn the fucking grass off to find the whatever, the main storyline is kinda boring... I'm more interested in what mods can do to make the game fun than the game itself. I guess it turns out there just isn't that much to do, and going into dungeon #2,456 and killing some more ebony bandits with equipment nobody in the game has enough cash to buy just isn't fun anymore.

The game isn't crap (so watch it Ace ) it's just paradoxically boring. Whatever GTA has to give it such replayability, Oblivion doesn't. It's a damn shame, since it's such a great game in many respects. I've gone back to GalCiv2

Stark wrote:Sad but true - I'm pretty much over Oblivion already.

It's a damn cool game, and all... but the levelling, and the sometimes-restrictive missions design (try and make a 'sucks at combat' char and see how much fun the main quest is)

you couldn't have a 'sucks at combat' character in the first one, either, though

, and... well, I just can't think of a reason to play. The skill system is broken (as people have noted, it's so abusable you can finish the game at a very low level or level really fast)

So...Level up when it tells you to for more challenge? Anyway, you could do that in Morrowind, too. Remember crouching in the corner of an inn just to get your sneak skill up? Jumping off of the bug platform in cities just to improve your acrobatics?

the quests either pathetically baby you with GPS pointers or say 'over there' and leave you to turn the fucking grass off to find the whatever,

Small price to pay. After all, if you were REALLY on a quest, could you turn the grass off? I think it adds an interesting dynamic, and it's a great way to improve your sneak skill. (Sneak=crouch=better view of the ground immediately in front of you without much speed sacrifice)

the main storyline is kinda boring...

I'm just going to disagree with you out of spite on this one, since I've not gotten to the main storyline yet.

I'm more interested in what mods can do to make the game fun than the game itself.

This is where my post turns into a me too, but not for the reasons you state. I just think it's really neat how creative people are, and look forward to mucking about in their heads.

I guess it turns out there just isn't that much to do, and going into dungeon #2,456 and killing some more ebony bandits with equipment nobody in the game has enough cash to buy just isn't fun anymore.

I look at it like this: They don't buy their armor. They are, after all, in a dungeon. I surmise they find it, and it just happens to fit, or they make it themselves!! Wooters!



The only gripe I have is the lack of unarmored fighting skill. THAT is pandering to the lowest common denominator or the worst kind. Who says you can't kick 9 metric fucktons of ass without being in full Daedric armor? I do, that's who.

The mission flexibility sucks because it's clear SOME of their level designers know how to create missions with multiple approaches and some don't. Most of the main storys missions boil down to 'kill all those guys' or 'kill all those guys'. Bleh. There *are* plently of missions compatible with negotiating, or stealth, or whatever, but they're uncommon.

The levelling isn't broken due to not meditating or whatever: it's simply irrelevant what level you are, since everyone matches you. Take seven skills you hate as major, you'll never level. Doesn't matter: you'll have high ratings in the ones you want. Some skills level absurdly fast (acro, ath) and some are very hard to raise (merc, conjure if you start below 25) Bah. NPC levelling is shit, and loot levelling is worse. There is no sense of sucess in finding better gear, because you only found it because you're level 10 and that means everyones got it now. Yay.

My complaint about selling equipment is that there's no point picking it up since you can't sell it for full value anywhere. Yes, bandits having ubersex armour is deeply stupid, but it's even MORE stupid when there's no benefit to killing them anymore, since their ubersex armour will just sit in the cave and rot.

Anyway, call me in a week. I loved the game - I still do, I guess - it's just sort of boring.

ROT?!

Take it to your house and display it! There's even a mod to make your house bigger to accomodate all of your *ahem* Trophies! (I plan to drag the corpses of my enemies to my house and posing them all around dressed in full armor, so that I may beat on them at my leisure!) I got the mod to make the house bigger from Planetelderscrolls (which already has an imperial buttload of mods)

OK, I've only played for about 4 hours total so far and I haven't leveled up once yet. I've cleared out two dungeons and started the main quest by dropping off the Amulet of the King and I don't think I'm close to leveling up. Any suggestions on how to get more experience? I imagined clearing out a dungeon would have done it but two and nothing yet?

Also did I miss out on much by not going into the Imperial City? I sort of wandered the country side, found a horse and rode around for awhile without ever going into the city.

Also the dungeon in Linea (sp?) has this door that I found no way of opening into the inner tombs. Any ideas?

Stravo wrote:OK, I've only played for about 4 hours total so far and I haven't leveled up once yet. I've cleared out two dungeons and started the main quest by dropping off the Amulet of the King and I don't think I'm close to leveling up. Any suggestions on how to get more experience? I imagined clearing out a dungeon would have done it but two and nothing yet?

Also did I miss out on much by not going into the Imperial City? I sort of wandered the country side, found a horse and rode around for awhile without ever going into the city.

Also the dungeon in Linea (sp?) has this door that I found no way of opening into the inner tombs. Any ideas?

You have to go to sleep to level up. Get a room, ya bum!

Chardok wrote:

Stravo wrote:OK, I've only played for about 4 hours total so far and I haven't leveled up once yet. I've cleared out two dungeons and started the main quest by dropping off the Amulet of the King and I don't think I'm close to leveling up. Any suggestions on how to get more experience? I imagined clearing out a dungeon would have done it but two and nothing yet?

Also did I miss out on much by not going into the Imperial City? I sort of wandered the country side, found a horse and rode around for awhile without ever going into the city.

Also the dungeon in Linea (sp?) has this door that I found no way of opening into the inner tombs. Any ideas?

You have to go to sleep to level up. Get a room, ya bum!

Jesus Christ are you serious? Is that why I have this halfmoon arrow up symbol in my HUD? Can you sleep anywhere like the wilderness or do you need to go into a city/town?

Stravo wrote: Jesus Christ are you serious? Is that why I have this halfmoon arrow up symbol in my HUD? Can you sleep anywhere like the wilderness or do you need to go into a city/town?

You need to sleep in a bed, either a bed roll at a campsite, a bed at an Inn, or in a house you can buy.

Arrow wrote:

Stravo wrote: Jesus Christ are you serious? Is that why I have this halfmoon arrow up symbol in my HUD? Can you sleep anywhere like the wilderness or do you need to go into a city/town?

You need to sleep in a bed, either a bed roll at a campsite, a bed at an Inn, or in a house you can buy.

Color me embrassed noob. I'll have to rush to a town ASAP and get some sleep I figure I must have racked up some serious experience then without even knowing it. I was expecting a D&D like leveling up system and never even bothered to read the manual. Oh well. Do your stats suffer if you never sleep to simulate sleep deprivation?

I wonder with the current leveling system whether you could actually win the game as a level 1 character?

BEDROLL?! Where the HELL can I get a bedroll?! You mean I didn't have to go ALL the way back to the bloated float? SHIT!

Oh, and stravo, you missed a TON of content by skipping the city. #1, it's a sight to behold, ignoring everything else. but there are guilds and merchant quests, and the ARENA, for chrissakes!

Chardok wrote:BEDROLL?! Where the HELL can I get a bedroll?! You mean I didn't have to go ALL the way back to the bloated float? SHIT!

Oh, and stravo, you missed a TON of content by skipping the city. #1, it's a sight to behold, ignoring everything else. but there are guilds and merchant quests, and the ARENA, for chrissakes!

Then I'm off to Imperial City.

The arena is a lot of fun. Make sure you ask the guy from whom you get your matches about rumors.

Who used spears? Apparently two or three of you in this thread.

And no Medium Armor? Boo-hoo! So you only find one sort of armor you don't like to wear instead of two.

Unarmored is a valid complaint, IMO.

Stravo wrote:Color me embrassed noob. I'll have to rush to a town ASAP and get some sleep I figure I must have racked up some serious experience then without even knowing it. I was expecting a D&D like leveling up system and never even bothered to read the manual. Oh well. Do your stats suffer if you never sleep to simulate sleep deprivation?

I wonder with the current leveling system whether you could actually win the game as a level 1 character?

Your stats don't suffer, but the game keeps accumlating points toward your next level. Its possible you'll have enough to go up two or three levels at once (just keep resting until that cresent moon and arrow are gone).

Chardok wrote:BEDROLL?! Where the HELL can I get a bedroll?! You mean I didn't have to go ALL the way back to the bloated float? SHIT!

When you're out in the wilderness, look for a tent icon (campsite) or three-house icon (village/inn) in the compass. You can sleep at those spots. Bed rolls in the dungeons also count. I've also heard of a mod that allows you to by a bed roll, and sleep whereever you want.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:And no Medium Armor? Boo-hoo! So you only find one sort of armor you don't like to wear instead of two.

My biggest complaint is that Chainmail ISN'T LIGHT ARMOR! It should be in the heavy class, since medium is gone. Mitheral/Elven, I guess they can stay in light armor. Once I've finished my first play through I'm going to see about digging up some armor and weapon rebalance mods (the weight is too high, for starters, and the Steel mod addresses it to an extent, but doesn't go far enough).

I actually feel that the light armours are too light. The chain curiass is like, 8 pounds or something?

I was working on an armour rebalance when I lost interest - I was going to ask Pablo if he wanted to help. It won't make any difference until the levelling is removed, of course.

What I want to know is have their been complaints about the idiotic enemy/item levelling to Bethesda?

And where the hell are all these levelling (not for your character, that doesn't interest me whatsoever, for enemies/items they carry) mods? I haven't found bloody one.

That's because it's a lot of work. I downloaded the construction set and took a look at what it would take to fix the leveled enemies and items properly, and you're honestly looking at dozens of hours of tedious work.

Stark wrote:The mission flexibility sucks because it's clear SOME of their level designers know how to create missions with multiple approaches and some don't. Most of the main storys missions boil down to 'kill all those guys' or 'kill all those guys'. Bleh. There *are* plently of missions compatible with negotiating, or stealth, or whatever, but they're uncommon.

The levelling isn't broken due to not meditating or whatever: it's simply irrelevant what level you are, since everyone matches you. Take seven skills you hate as major, you'll never level. Doesn't matter: you'll have high ratings in the ones you want. Some skills level absurdly fast (acro, ath) and some are very hard to raise (merc, conjure if you start below 25) Bah. NPC levelling is shit, and loot levelling is worse. There is no sense of sucess in finding better gear, because you only found it because you're level 10 and that means everyones got it now. Yay.

Agree on all. What really infuriates me is that I don't recall these problems being present in Morrowind. In that game, for example, it was possible to complete the main quest in a completely different way than the storyline leads you (steal Wraithguard from Vivec, etc). In Oblivion, alternate possibilities like that would be possible if not for some worthless decisions by the developers. If not for their choice to make quest NPCs immortal (as opposed to killable with a warning in Morrowind), one could potentially use the Rose of Sithis arrow from the Dark Brotherhood to assassinate Mankar Camoran in the Mythic Dawn hideout, ending his plot then and there. Instead, they chose to make a character that you ultimately kill anyway indestructible in order to force you down a preset path.

Vympel wrote:What I want to know is have their been complaints about the idiotic enemy/item levelling to Bethesda?

Their official forums were burning with the unholy flames of hundreds of enraged fans, last I checked. They've as of yet provided no acknowledgement.

The 'infiltrate Mythic Dawn' quest is the worst example of poor mission scripting I've seen in Oblivion.

GOALS : Infiltrate Mythic Dawn, seize the book. Discover their evil plans. Prevent their evil plans.

RESTRICTED ACTIONS : Impossible to steal book without someone noticing. Impossible to LEAVE without killing pretty much everyone. Impossible to become inside agent within the Mythic Dawn (or even abandon the main quest entirely). Silent kills or perfect stealth-steals are instantly known. Mancar Camaron is invincible. Cannot negotiate escape/book/greater freedom.

POSSIBLE ACTIONS : Kill the guy following you, take the book, lose Mythic Dawn rank, escape. These can be rearranged, but none can be avoided.

That's shit.

As Vympel said earlier, Morrowind had much less NPC levelling (perhaps too little), and I didn't notice it being a problem. The skill system was a problem (fast vs slow skills, useless skills, etc) but still workable. In Oblivion you can level to 20 in literally two hours, max skills in an hour (a friend had stealth 100 in about one hour), and go from rags to ebony/glass in perhaps five hours. I have to *intentionally* slow my levelling to prevent the game reaching stupid 'everyone has daedric armour' levels, which means there is no daedric armour anywhere.

All I want is a world with 98% useless morons and 2% mighty super boss guys. 98% steel armour, with 2% hidden, rare or restricted magic armour. A world where selling a magic sword doesn't boil down to (sword = 1500g + 200 meat) then 4(50 meat = 1500g). You know the level fluff that says 'lolz u are teh l337 and rulezor with ur p0wah'? I want that to be TRUE, and not be Beth-speak for 'everyone else is the same as you'.

Fucking A. In terms of equipment levelling, what I find so absurd about it is that they're pissing all over the lore of the world they created. Where the hell is a bandit going to get a suit of ebony from? There's a rigid Imperial monopoly on it througout Tamriel! And Daedric? What, have these uber-bandits been going on jaunts through Oblivion?!

The equipment isn't my biggest concern- it's the "everyone else is the same as you" that really rubs me the wrong way. After all, in Morrowind, nearly all of your armor would be unique anyway- except your greaves and pauldrons, really (the elimination of pauldrons was IMO a welcome deletion). I ended up wearing glass greaves and pauldrons for that reason (almost as much protection as daedric, without the obscene weight).

Of course, haven't found any of the unqiue stuff in Oblivion yet.

Stark wrote:The 'infiltrate Mythic Dawn' quest is the worst example of poor mission scripting I've seen in Oblivion.

GOALS : Infiltrate Mythic Dawn, seize the book. Discover their evil plans. Prevent their evil plans.

RESTRICTED ACTIONS : Impossible to steal book without someone noticing. Impossible to LEAVE without killing pretty much everyone. Impossible to become inside agent within the Mythic Dawn (or even abandon the main quest entirely). Silent kills or perfect stealth-steals are instantly known. Mancar Camaron is invincible. Cannot negotiate escape/book/greater freedom.

POSSIBLE ACTIONS : Kill the guy following you, take the book, lose Mythic Dawn rank, escape. These can be rearranged, but none can be avoided.

That's shit.

As Vympel said earlier, Morrowind had much less NPC levelling (perhaps too little), and I didn't notice it being a problem. The skill system was a problem (fast vs slow skills, useless skills, etc) but still workable. In Oblivion you can level to 20 in literally two hours, max skills in an hour (a friend had stealth 100 in about one hour), and go from rags to ebony/glass in perhaps five hours. I have to *intentionally* slow my levelling to prevent the game reaching stupid 'everyone has daedric armour' levels, which means there is no daedric armour anywhere.

All I want is a world with 98% useless morons and 2% mighty super boss guys. 98% steel armour, with 2% hidden, rare or restricted magic armour. A world where selling a magic sword doesn't boil down to (sword = 1500g + 200 meat) then 4(50 meat = 1500g). You know the level fluff that says 'lolz u are teh l337 and rulezor with ur p0wah'? I want that to be TRUE, and not be Beth-speak for 'everyone else is the same as you'.

Many others feel similarly, check out the various mods currently out, many of your concerns are addressed. here

Can we watch the spoilers, please? Not all of us have finished the main quest, yet.

I regret the loss of pauldrons, if only because it allowed for more NPC variety.

I totally agree that that the levelling Bandits in Daedric and Glass armor is shit. What the hell, man.