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With the Church having been flexible enough to survive the Message, who's to say the hierarchy (not least to save itself) wouldn't be willing to give "theological flexibility" another go? (Please remember that I'm talking about the TSW version of the RCC here.)

Dave wrote:

Darmalus wrote:Makes me want to take a look at TBO, a very grim and respectful look at nuclear warfare. Wasn't there some problem with the first printing? Any idea when a fixed version will be available?

Apologies, but what does TBO stand for?

The Big One. It's a reference to the major event that happens in the first novel in that series.

Regarding "The Big One": this was one initiation, over an army in a seemingly mostly unpopulated area. Now, imagine if it had taken place in the Eternal City... multiple times. Or if there had been more cities in Heaven...

Edward Yee wrote:Regarding "The Big One": this was one initiation, over an army in a seemingly mostly unpopulated area. Now, imagine if it had taken place in the Eternal City... multiple times. Or if there had been more cities in Heaven...

Semantic Aside: Well, at what point do we decide that the various areas of a city the size of the Eternal City are cities unto themselves? I mean with an area that if I remember correctly, covers thousands and thousands of square miles, I don't think we can really call it a city.

That's nothing. Remember what Stuart said? Hell would have been a Hell beyond all imagining had air support not been available.

But good god... I'm trying to imagine it all. The monster in me is trying to gloat, saying that these guys had it coming: they were out to perform genocide on the human race. Then the other part kicks in and does a good job of silencing it: They were soldiers. Doing Their Duty. Ugly as that duty was, that's their boss' call, he's the monster.

Whoever said it was a good thing this didn't include screaming women and children was right; it's a nightmare. I'm guessing all the living survivors of the nuclear strike won't last the fortnight; they all got massive 3rd degree burns and hefty doses of radiation. And I was wrong; Elhmas didn't have a snowball's chance in hell to report what was happening; he got toasted *first*.

I am expecting, however, that the witness will be hospitalized by Mike's doctors once he reports to Yahweh about the total destruction of his son with his army.

"What's the diagnosis, doctor?"

"Well, apparently the humans are playing for keeps this time; this guy walked through nuclear fallout. As in nuclear bomb fallout. I'd give him a week, all we can do is make it easier for him."

Mike: "What the fuck have I done?"

As for the destruction of the Heavenly City; yes it's really ****ing huge. The thing is, I'm pretty sure that if it were the HEA's army's intent, they can still nuke it to the ground.

Here's to the response of Mike, Yahweh, and the Divine Host to the destruction of their entire army.

Saint_007 wrote:Mike: "What the fuck have I done?"

I dunno Mike, maybe exactly what you had been intending? I really never did get to what extent he understood nuclear weapons, other then thinking of them as "huge ka-BOOM," perhaps missing that humanity thought of them in a very particular way?

As for GEN Petraeus being formal to "Sir Michael" -- solemnity's perfectly appropriate, considering what Petraeus had just ordered/done; even he needs to "lie down for a bit," and this is the man who grunted his way through a chest tube insertion without anesthesia!

who is don brennan anyway?

Edward Yee wrote:

Saint_007 wrote:Mike: "What the fuck have I done?"

I dunno Mike, maybe exactly what you had been intending? I really never did get to what extent he understood nuclear weapons, other then thinking of them as "huge ka-BOOM," perhaps missing that humanity thought of them in a very particular way?

To be fair to Mike, he didn't expect us to use nuclear weapons. When he said "clean sweep" in Pantheonicide Ch 57, he was referring to how Petraeus swept Abigor's army under the rug; aerial support, artillery, and armored thrusts complete with pincers and flanking attacks. And aside from the destruction of Tel Aviv and Myanmar's capital, he's apparently never seen what a nuke does - and he has no clue what it does at close quarters. He might even be filled with a morbid curiosity to see what happened, only for his doctors to forcefully order him to stay away. It would be shocking for an angel to get orders from a mere human, but as the doctor would say "Trust me; it's MUCH too dangerous to get near a nuclear blast area".

The biggest thing about the blast is, I would say, the impact it has on Mike's plans. He was counting on us blasting our ways inch by inch into Heaven the way we did against Satan. The fact that we're now willing to nuke military targets means he has less time than he thought he did.

And here's a final thought. This was, as Uxhalar said, Yahweh's personal guard, the elite. How would the rest of Heaven react to the complete and utter destruction of Yahweh's son along with his finest troops?

I'm sooo waiting for Ch. 71. Though as a minor nitpick, the cleaned-up thread doesn't seem to be updated; its latest addition is Ch. 68.

You so sure about that, Saint_007?

In an earlier piece, it seems that Michael's doctor wasn't particularly fond of him and was hoping he would get done in on his next trip Earthside.

Why wouldn't he take advantage of this opportunity to let Mikey do himself in?

Just reread Armageddon and I hope that Stuart hasn't forgotten Col. (D) Stirling being asked by the "first-life" CO of The Regiment about raising some Hell in Heaven?

fnord wrote:You so sure about that, Saint_007?

In an earlier piece, it seems that Michael's doctor wasn't particularly fond of him and was hoping he would get done in on his next trip Earthside.

Why wouldn't he take advantage of this opportunity to let Mikey do himself in?

On the other hand, it's a nuke... even the doctor may balk at that fate for Michael-lan, as opposed to his merely being shot up with bullets or bombed.

First of all, as it's my first post here (having read through the first book and this within the last week and a half or so), great stuff. Personally, I found the Earthside disaster recovery bits somewhat dull, but on the whole, quite good reading.

And this latest bit manages well in conveying the results of a nuclear blast in an appropriately solemn manner. Still, maybe it's just me and my filthy mind, but I couldn't help but get a goatse mental image out of the circular blast zone with its central poisonous well, given that "The hills had been distorted, their pleasing symmetry destroyed, looking as if a giant hand had pushed them away."

To the credit of the writing, this actually did not distract me appreciably from the overall tone of the chapter.

Edward Yee wrote:

fnord wrote:You so sure about that, Saint_007?

In an earlier piece, it seems that Michael's doctor wasn't particularly fond of him and was hoping he would get done in on his next trip Earthside.

Why wouldn't he take advantage of this opportunity to let Mikey do himself in?

On the other hand, it's a nuke... even the doctor may balk at that fate for Michael-lan, as opposed to his merely being shot up with bullets or bombed.

I was thinking the main reason why the doctor wouldn't like Michael dead - even though I apparently missed the part where he hated Michael that bad - was because, let's face it, without Mike, he's another human in Heaven. He's stuck in a medieval society where his skills are unappreciated, and the only one who holds any regard for him (even though it's technically just his skills) is Michael. As bad a boss as he might be (doubtful, everyone else sticks to Mike like glue), he's the only one sticking up for you. Everyone else would rather have you shoveling shit off the streets, and I'd rather have Michael in that case.

Depends on how much said Second Lifers know though of what's going down...

Nice work Stuart. It is important to properly describe the effects of instant sunshine lest amateurs go off all half cocked.

Dave wrote:

Darmalus wrote:Makes me want to take a look at TBO, a very grim and respectful look at nuclear warfare. Wasn't there some problem with the first printing? Any idea when a fixed version will be available?

Apologies, but what does TBO stand for?

The Big One was the operation that brought the TBO WW2 to a close and it lent it's name to the book. The subsequent book treats with many of the continent wide effects of that campaign. There are two further nuclear campaigns in later books.

Maybe it is just me after closely following all of the TBOverse books and stories but the presence of the targeteer is comforting - a true expert is in control. The comment about running countries is so Parmenio.

Ilya Muromets wrote:

Emerson33260 wrote:

General Schatten wrote: Well look at his fucking salad bar!

Hell, most of it is obscured by his lapel!

Color me unimpressed. It was better in the old days when they just let the conspicuously competent jump a grade instead of covering their uniforms with little bits of metal and ribbon.

Okay, just a clarification, is that unimpressed at the look of the salad bar? Or unimpressed at the general himself?

It is the ridiculous excess of the salad bar that annoys me. The American system seems to be calculated to give mediocre senior officers with no combat record about four rows of ribbons. Even in forces with very tight medal policies, a soldier who is aggressive, competent, and lucky can achieve results that are downright wacky. For example, here is Günther Viezenz, wearing the sleeve badges for single-handed destruction of enemy tanks with hand weapons (hand grenade, magnetic hollow charge, Panzerfaust, satchel charge and/or Molotov cocktail). His score here is fifteen and he got five more before the war was over. He has exactly four more decorations: all three grades of the Iron Cross and the Infantry assault badge. He survived the war and lived another 50 years.

Second Lifers get energy for their healing from how the bubble dimension they live in gets smaller, right ?
So what if there is a bubble dimension that becomes smaller very fast (compared to Hell or Heaven), would that mean the secondlifers would get superman like powers ?

Hold on, let's step back for a moment.

I'm not at all sure that the human janissaries are actually going to die from the radiation. Remember the damage mechanism - broken DNA or, in extreme cases, broken proteins. Mostly broken DNA.

They don't have DNA. Admittedly that has not been explicitly stated (has it?), but it seems nearly certain from what we've seen of them. If they do have DNA, it's gotten a complete overhaul from ours, and it'd probably be easier for their creators to just invent something new from scratch; DNA is not the simplest thing to use. DNA is also linked to all our other systems - proteins, ribosome nanofactories, etc. - which at their rate of regeneration cannot possibly be what they're using either. Proteins, maybe. Ribosomes.. nuh-uh.

Whatever they do use for their DNA-equivalent, it might be sturdier than DNA, or it might have built-in error checking on the level of D. Radiodurans.. or it might be off in some extradimensional space. The lack of mutations for very long-lived second-lifers suggest it's not too likely to break, at least. As such, I would not be overly surprised if regeneration for radiation-damaged second-lifers just works as normal.

The angels, though? Oh, they're screwed.

PaperJack wrote:Second Lifers get energy for their healing from how the bubble dimension they live in gets smaller, right ?
So what if there is a bubble dimension that becomes smaller very fast (compared to Hell or Heaven), would that mean the secondlifers would get superman like powers ?

I suspect it would be more akin to explosive overclocking. Feeding 10kV into a line meant for 5V.. not really a good idea.

phongn wrote:

Even allowing for the way angels and Second Life humans recuperate

The way it sounds, it seems like many angels and second-lifers will have a more drawn-out death.

After that level of a dose of radiation? The strongest and oldest of the angels who can control their own bodies' processes to a limited extent will be able to survive and even fully heal.... By ripping out cancerous after cancerous attempt at re-growth until they by luck get one which holds true. The ones who aren't so strong will be more apt to be overtaken by horrifying cancerous tumors caused by the severe radiation exposure essentially making their quick-healing mechanisms go crazy. The results of nuclear weapons on Second Lifers, Angels, and Demons will be more horrifying than anyone could imagine on a living normal human because of the fact that they regenerate. They will die because their auto-healing mechanisms in their bodies will be massively irradiated, and twisted, fast-growing cancers will consume every single wound healing effort they have.

It will be sort of like this time I tried to develop a sci-fantasy internally consistent method of "scientific" vampires--they could regenerate limbs but it would take decades because they would frequently regenerate in twisted tumors, so the old, wise ones, to preserve their human appearance, cut the tumors off over and over again, like someone trimming and pruning and shaping a tree, until their lost limb would slowly grow back into the rough shape and function of the limb they'd originally had. Now imagine that happening much much faster because Angels and Second Lifers heal much faster than those vampires I created. And it would happen whever the body was trying to heal damage. Since damage took place at the cellular level, it means they're going to essentially turn into giant living lumps of cancer tissue and then die from overwhelming systemic shock. The ones close enough to the blast to get their basic metabolic processes completely disrupted will be by far the luckiest. The strong ones at the edge of what would be the lethal zone for humans will live, and have the lifespans ahead of them to spend the next few decades in a constant state of chronic disablement endlessly battling the tumors, and everyone between them in the effects zones will die the most grusome deaths imaginable.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking when I posted earlier.

Dude, don't sweat it. Ask anyone here and they'd tell you I do it all the time (i.e. posting w/out thinking).

Of course, the doc might not like Michael because as a modern human, he'd be more sympathetic to the HEA's causes than some jackass God whom Michael serves. That, and Mike still reeks of that Angelic arrogance, even though he's now realizing how much it's going to cost Heaven.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Just wow. The author really did justice to the terrifying power of The Bomb. That was quite chilling (and informative).

TimothyC wrote: A while back you said that you were only going to introduce two historical characters in Pantheocide, I presume this is the second?

No, this is just a tip-of-the-hat to an old friend who never quite got the recognition he deserved.

Also I wonder if Herman Kahn and company will be starting up a Styx River Institute?

Now that would be fun.

Night_stalker wrote:Well, we got Jesus at any rate. Now we just need to kill Yaw-Yaw and it's a clean sweep.

Actually, we DON'T have a confirmed hit on Jesus yet, just a big unidentified angel in charge and a survivor's word that he'd been in the blast zone. All the smart money says we nuked Jesus, but there remains a slim chance he was savvy enough to let another lead in his place in a Patroclus-in-Achilles'-armour sort of way. Depends on how matter-of-fact Stuart is telling the story.