StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Thanas wrote:

Acidburns wrote:You can request military access for 5 turns or whatever the minimum is and your ships can then pass.

Have you ever tried it? Even getting them as protectorates does not work.

Yep tried that as well, getting Military Access is damn near impossible, even with places your allied with and on the best of terms.

Turns out military access is worthless when the freaking army/navy of your "ally" is standing there and refuses to move.

Something, which, you know, should have come up in betatests. I mean, WTF? Did nobody ever try to move ships across the straits of Gibraltar and didn't notice the AI blockading it?

Ahh, knew there was something I was missing, I just had my Gentlemen sitting at my own universities. Income isn't a problem now - I just have fluyts sitting on the trade squares in brazil, it's hilarious - trading ships that are monsters in combat. Manually controlling it I managed to go toe to toe with a fifth rate and obliterate it before broadsiding a galleon to death. I just don't get the naval balancing, it's so screwy like they didn't even bother. Also the galleons seem to surrender really fast if you can manage to get close and pump grapeshot into them, the problem is just getting close since even if you demast them they still have the oars. A sixth rate is fast enough, just.

Thanas wrote:Have you ever tried it? Even getting them as protectorates does not work.

It worked for me. Sailed up, could not pass, requested access, sailed past, all in one turn.

Bloody hell, playing the English campaign and I just lost a full stack army to the Knights of St John, which considering they were just milita (and mine were line infantry) is pretty appalling, it seems on harder difficulties they really are pulling the same old BS of just giving the enemy rudiculous combat bonuses, so that rather than actually making it any harder your units just plain suck against their counterparts and you end up having to take full stack armies of your best units against crummie milita units.

On a good side, I am getting better at naval battles so I at least seem to win most of them, the only times i've lost so far is coming up against doomships. The only way to beat them is just to spam back at them.

Acidburns wrote:

Thanas wrote:Have you ever tried it? Even getting them as protectorates does not work.

It worked for me. Sailed up, could not pass, requested access, sailed past, all in one turn.

Eh - just to be sure, they were stationed directly in the one-field space between marocco and gibraltar?

Can you provide a screenshot?

Thanas wrote:Eh - just to be sure, they were stationed directly in the one-field space between marocco and gibraltar?

Can you provide a screenshot?

I don't have the exact turn, but I just parked a ship there for a couple of turns until another ship came along. I was mistaken, there must have been a gap for my ship to squeeze through. There's a two ship long area there that is indeed impassible if occupied by a fleet. Pretty stupid, your own fleets and armies can pass through each other, so it's not as if the game code cannot handle it.

Acidburns wrote:

Thanas wrote:Eh - just to be sure, they were stationed directly in the one-field space between marocco and gibraltar?

Can you provide a screenshot?

I don't have the exact turn, but I just parked a ship there for a couple of turns until another ship came along. I was mistaken, there must have been a gap for my ship to squeeze through. There's a two ship long area there that is indeed impassible if occupied by a fleet. Pretty stupid, your own fleets and armies can pass through each other, so it's not as if the game code cannot handle it.

I don't know about the later because oftentimes when my units are on automove when I've given them long range directiosn but not moved them during the turn they will go around towns, armies, and agents even when it would be faster (i.e they wouldn't leave the road) to go through those units.

Guess that just makes me wrong again . Was this the case in Rome & Medieval 2 also?

Resinence wrote:Ahh, knew there was something I was missing, I just had my Gentlemen sitting at my own universities. Income isn't a problem now - I just have fluyts sitting on the trade squares in brazil, it's hilarious - trading ships that are monsters in combat. Manually controlling it I managed to go toe to toe with a fifth rate and obliterate it before broadsiding a galleon to death. I just don't get the naval balancing, it's so screwy like they didn't even bother. Also the galleons seem to surrender really fast if you can manage to get close and pump grapeshot into them, the problem is just getting close since even if you demast them they still have the oars. A sixth rate is fast enough, just.

Fluyts are ridiculous. The Dutch decided to start shit with me, so I made the foolish error of engaging 2 of their fluyts with 4 5th rates and a 6th rate... I lost 2 5th rates. Prior to that battle I think I'd only lost a single 5th rate in that entire campaign.

The problem is that they made only 3 trade ships - Indiamen, galleons, and fluyts, with no variations upon them. Of the three, Indiamen are supposed to be the ones with a reasonable armament with which to fend off attackers, yet in the game they have downright anemic firepower. Galleons are a little less unreasonable in that they're supposed to be old quasi-warships, but that they're a match for 4th rates is a little silly. The fluyts are just downright absurd - their defining characteristic was that they had a fat ass for carrying lots of tax-free cargo, not that they can blow a 5th rate out of the water.

This is further compounded by the lack of frigate variation. You are limited to 6th rates (you can think of them as being roughly analogous to a modern-day destroyer), 5th rates (modern-day cruiser), the "razee" frigates which I've yet to test, "carronade" frigates, and the 24-pdr "superfrigates" which only the US can build. The 24-pdrs are very good, but since only the US can get them you'd basically be reliant upon letting/getting the US to form and then hoping the AI builds them so you can board and capture them.

In other words... the vast majority of your heavy-duty frigates are going to have to be stock 5th rates. And they suck. A galleon murders them, and every time I take one up against a fluyt it gets a magazine detonation or catches fire or sinks with green health, not to mention never ever succeeding at boarding a stupid merchantman (which you would think would have vastly less crew and vastly less armed crew than a dedicated warship, but this is not the case...).

I could get further into this, with the problems of how naval combat handles speed and maneuverability (i.e., they're virtually irrelevant) which translates into frigates sucking even more, but the bottom line is - you need 3rd rates and up to kill fucking fluyts and galleons without grievous losses.

I don't know about fluyts (because I negaged the dutch before the got their commecial business under way enough) but I was regularly pounding galleons with my 5th rates after I got improved cannister. Just broadside up one way with grape shot, broadside down the other then board, usually the first two wipe about 10-15% of the crew and then they are demoralized unless their fleet outnumbers mine. Maybe it was a fluke but I did that twice before I got to building fleets full of 2nd rates and just autoresolving since I had such monstrous firepower advantages.

I must be playing a different game to some people here. Galleys are terrible which was something of a letdown after I recruited several instead of a real ship. One good broadside makes them surrender and their damage output is underwhelming.

I don't make any claim to being awesome or anything. I am terrible at naval combat. But a fast ship can stay aft of a slower one and slowly chew the enemy force apart, taking only the occasional salvo when the wind isn't favorable.

EDIT: Also on the subject of 'playing a different game', I have not had any crashes since the first few days of release.

Galleys, for the most part, are terrible. The problem is that they can rack up absurd attrition against a ship of the line when used en masse. Death by a thousand cuts.

And if you haven't been getting any crashes, then yeah, something is clearly wrong. Please ensure you are not currently in the Twilight Zone and remain firmly grounded in reality.

CmdrWilkens wrote:I don't know about fluyts (because I negaged the dutch before the got their commecial business under way enough) but I was regularly pounding galleons with my 5th rates after I got improved cannister. Just broadside up one way with grape shot, broadside down the other then board, usually the first two wipe about 10-15% of the crew and then they are demoralized unless their fleet outnumbers mine. Maybe it was a fluke but I did that twice before I got to building fleets full of 2nd rates and just autoresolving since I had such monstrous firepower advantages.

I dunno. I got improved grape shot, but it doesn't seem to do shit. Neither does chain. Every time I go for a boarding action, the enemy ship just keeps blazing away with full broadsides, which half of the time always seem to result in a powder magazine hit and blows up both ships. The other half cause my ship to sink and surrender.

Grapeshot never seems to do crap most of the time for me either, and chain is only really effective when they are at full sail. I don't even bother boarding unless they are routing already since they will just constantly blast away at you as you board them and even if you don't die from that you will definitely be taking on water and sink later. At least you can do the same to them if they try to board you. I'm wondering if the huge fat bottom of the fluyt's is what allows them to stay floating for so long even when they are basically just a hulk - or if the game even models the flooding that accurately, either way, even with "Concerned: Hull damage" and the "Sinking" icon they can keep fighting for a long time.

Also I seriously haven't been getting any crashes at all, I'm on Win7-64. If the game is running bad for some people Volumetric particles and DoF/SSAO require the game to be rendered to depth, which means rendering each frame twice, I'd try turning them off, other big ones are AA + HDR (both add a memory footprint and it adds up with both together).

I agree with BCG and Resinence. Chain shot does shit against masts unless the enemy is at sail - which makes little sense as chainshot was highly effective against masts.

Boarding is way too hard for the reasons BCG mentioned - the enemy ship keeps firing full broadsides into you, getting absurd close-range bonuses. As a result, boarding a ship only works if your own ship is at least two classes above it so that it can take the pounding and survive.


Also, the AI save game crash just ruined a 174 turn campaign.

In other news, the AI is retarded on hard levels. It seems to fall into the old RTW trap that you have to be constantly at war with another nation. For example, playing as Spain, Lousiana declared war on me - despite them being a protectorate of France, my dearest ally.

GuppyShark wrote:I must be playing a different game to some people here. Galleys are terrible which was something of a letdown after I recruited several instead of a real ship. One good broadside makes them surrender and their damage output is underwhelming.

I don't make any claim to being awesome or anything. I am terrible at naval combat. But a fast ship can stay aft of a slower one and slowly chew the enemy force apart, taking only the occasional salvo when the wind isn't favorable.

EDIT: Also on the subject of 'playing a different game', I have not had any crashes since the first few days of release.

Well I got a couple, as mentioned earlier, of the "look at a fleet wierd" CTD situations but I haven't had any since or before related to anything. In other words I'm sure there is a memory leak issue with regard to some units but once I basicallyput that fleet on a permanent station in the English Channel and idn't touch them I haven't had any crash issues. Gonna try the Prussian campaign next to see if I can handle running a ground campaign over a long period.

Started a new game as a minor nation, specifically the Italian States.

Very fun. Very challenging. I've taken the Barbary States out (leaving them one province - having a common enemy with most of Europe is useful diplomatically) and seized Morroco, giving me a guarenteed shipping lane out of the Mediterranean.

The lower classes hate my monarch with a passion and the African holdings are barely under control. I've got rebels hiding in the mountains in Morroco I haven't got the cash to hunt down. However, things are looking up. A successful annexation of Genoa will, once the populace get with the program, greatly strengthen my position. I've been courting trade with the major powers so I should be able to expand into India or the Americas soon without risking being devoured in Europe.

Sweet Jesus, puckle guns are nasty and I just found that out the hard way. The enemy had 4 groups in a row and they can lay down a barrage with a load of hurt. Two regiments of my advancing line infantry got cut down without much effort. When I tried flanking with my general (my only cavalry unit), he got cut down as well (appearantly they got a huge firing arc as well).

I experienced the super Galleon bug in my game. I Always lost in a naval battle against any pirate ships due to the fact that they NEVER take any damage ever.

That's how my entire fleet was wiped out by 3 Galleon.

wautd wrote:Sweet Jesus, puckle guns are nasty and I just found that out the hard way. The enemy had 4 groups in a row and they can lay down a barrage with a load of hurt. Two regiments of my advancing line infantry got cut down without much effort. When I tried flanking with my general (my only cavalry unit), he got cut down as well (appearantly they got a huge firing arc as well).

Their firing arc is a bug, I believe. They can apparently pivot through the sides of the cart they were brought in on, and can also target outside their firing range. They are actually really good anti-fortification thanks to that (2 hits = 1% damage).

Massive friendly fire thanks to that bug. The displayed firing arc is much narrower.

Well, I finally got this game.

Notes:

- The stuttering on the campaign map is really annoying. Long delays in selecting units sometimes.
- The tactical graphics are shit. M2TW looked much better.
- The turn-based campaign part of the game is better than previous TW games. I actually like it and it seems to me almost as if ETW is a turn-based strategy game with the tactical game haphazardly added on.
- I ran into the Morrocan blockade at Gibraltar, just like everyone else. I didn't bother pussy-footing around: I declared war on Morocco, landed a huge army in his territory, conquered his capital, and all of his fleets disappeared. Simple problem, simple solution.
- The first time I tried playing, I tended to auto-resolve battles a lot, and to build up cities before small towns. The second time, I manually ran through most battles to reduce my losses, and I adopted a policy of upgrading farms and workshops and ports before upgrading cities. That gave me a much more robust economy and allowed much faster expansion and military conquest.
- I find that research goes quickly for me. I always conquer Sweden first and get another school there, and I build one in Rupert's Land as well. Then I build one in Manchester when it becomes available; lots of schools means lots of concurrent research, allowing you to rapidly progress down the tree.
- The American natives were not a problem. By the time I fought them I had enough tech upgrades for my line infantry to deal quite devastating damage to them.
- The pirates have stupidly powerful fleets, so I built up fleets of 3rd and 4th rate ships to take them down.
- In my second game, I accumulated 50 territories by 1750, but I still need to take the key territories in my objective list. Shouldn't be a problem though; the money is flowing nicely and I can build armies of disposable line infantry at will. Most of my rivals are gone: Denmark, Sweden, Spain, France, the Pirates, the Barbary States, and a host of lesser factions like Courland, Morocco, Prussia, Savoy, United Provinces, etc. I don't bother trying to get factions to surrender to me; I simply wipe them out. The nice thing is that if you kill the Spanish and French territories in the European theatre, all of their territories in the New World go independent. In general, it seems to me that the best way to deal with enemies is to relentlessly pursue one of them until he's completely wiped out, while holding the others at bay until you can deal with them in similar fashion. Weakened enemies continue to nip at your flanks and annoy you, whereas the total destruction of a faction eliminates all of his roaming armies, fleets, and agents, thus solving a lot of headaches.
- Grenadiers can be quite devastating as reserve units behind your line infantry, especially in irregular terrain where enemy infantry bunches up in certain places. Run them up at an enemy unit which is holding position and firing at your line, push the "grenade" button, and let fly. The rippling blasts tend to send them fleeing.
- Enemy infantry tends to fixate on garrisoned units, thus allowing a line of infantry to hammer them with concentrated fire from the flanks while they maneuver around a building shooting at it.
- Forts seem almost useless, in the sense that the enemy gains the walls so easily. When outnumbered, I tend to put my men in the garrisonable buildings inside the fort, and simply let them take the walls. That works surprisingly well; the enemy marches into the middle of the fort but gets hammered on both sides by fire from garrisoned units until he routs.
- I'm getting better at sea battles. That might be an illusion produced by the fact that I tend to go into them with much higher-quality ships than the enemy. But I did fight a battle where the enemy had two second-rate ships and some galleons, and I had a bunch of third-rate ships, so I haven't always had an overwhelming advantage in equipment.
- When destroying minor factions that have one one tiny territory with a modern university in it, just demolish the university immediately. It's the only way to control public unrest. And once you have five or six schools, you don't really need more anyway.

The tactical graphics are shit. M2TW looked much better.

I know! What is up with that? I can't put my finger on what looks different, but IMO it definitely looks worse than M2TW. It's harder to see things. Aside from the obvious, i.e. at long distance units become sprites, which you won't be familiar with in TW before unless you played the original Shogun and Medieval.

Ever since my PC has been repaired (thank God Steam + ETW was on the HDD that didn't die) my stuttering has completely vanished, though. It was purely a symptom of my HDD dying.

defanatic wrote:

wautd wrote:Sweet Jesus, puckle guns are nasty and I just found that out the hard way. The enemy had 4 groups in a row and they can lay down a barrage with a load of hurt. Two regiments of my advancing line infantry got cut down without much effort. When I tried flanking with my general (my only cavalry unit), he got cut down as well (appearantly they got a huge firing arc as well).

Their firing arc is a bug, I believe. They can apparently pivot through the sides of the cart they were brought in on, and can also target outside their firing range. They are actually really good anti-fortification thanks to that (2 hits = 1% damage).

Massive friendly fire thanks to that bug. The displayed firing arc is much narrower.

I was glad when I could build them myself, but they were kind of a letdown when I had them. Either you had to worry for friendly fire, or if you put them in front the enemy just ran towards them to get into melee. I just found that a couple of artillery batteries armed with shrapnel are good for what ails ye though.


I'm now at 1770isch playing the Netherlands (M/M). At first I found the game harder than R:TW/M:TW but that was because combat was different. Once I got used to it, it actually seems easier now since it appears that it's much easier to keep control over a large empire (plus, in the older games, dying generals far away from your capital were a bitch to replace).
Getting India gave me a rediculous cash injection (I'm building stacks of armies everywhere and my wallet still keeps rising nicely. Just went past the one million credits) and I think I control more than half the map now (I'm now in the process in carving a land bridge from europe to india and just declared war to Britain since I needed New York).

Next game will be a minor nation on H/H I guess.


Oh yeah, at this point I'm afraid to selecting a fleet, for the high chance of CTD'ing (without an autosafe even so highly annoying). I even got 2 fleets sitting in the middle of nowhere because I can't move them (selecting them will cause a CTD all the time)

Darth Wong wrote:- Grenadiers can be quite devastating as reserve units behind your line infantry, especially in irregular terrain where enemy infantry bunches up in certain places. Run them up at an enemy unit which is holding position and firing at your line, push the "grenade" button, and let fly. The rippling blasts tend to send them fleeing.

Damn, why did I never thought of doing that?

and I can build armies of disposable line infantry at will

90% of my armies consists of line infantry since I don't see the point of training any other type (except perhaps a few grenadiers in case some heavy close combat is needed.

Darth Wong wrote:Well, I finally got this game.

- I ran into the Morrocan blockade at Gibraltar, just like everyone else. I didn't bother pussy-footing around: I declared war on Morocco, landed a huge army in his territory, conquered his capital, and all of his fleets disappeared. Simple problem, simple solution.

Yeah, but the problem with that is that a few turns later, another fraction will blockade Gibraltar again, so you have to blockade it yourself with a strong fleet.

Thanas wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Well, I finally got this game.

- I ran into the Morrocan blockade at Gibraltar, just like everyone else. I didn't bother pussy-footing around: I declared war on Morocco, landed a huge army in his territory, conquered his capital, and all of his fleets disappeared. Simple problem, simple solution.

Yeah, but the problem with that is that a few turns later, another fraction will blockade Gibraltar again, so you have to blockade it yourself with a strong fleet.

Well it doesn't immediately need to be strong. With the Dutch although I was loaded for bear with cash from conquering India and holding most of the trade ports worldwide I only had a few strong naval stacks so I just stuck a single sloop there until I managed to build another strong stack. Since I wasn't at war with anyone other than the Barbary States at the time (where I was focusing one of my naval stacks) nobody tried to bash down my blockade until I got back into it with the French.