Brexit and General UK politics thread

[Dominus Atheos]

Jon Schwarz has the best line on this:

https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/stat ... 6731880448

Leftists have to admit that Corbyn and Sanders's success has nothing to do with their platforms, they both just possess unstoppable charisma.

Corbyn strikes me as a decent, honest man of principle -or as close to one as you can get among elected officials- no naturally the Blairites tried to pull a DNC on him and did their best to fuck him over at every turn, smearing him even worse than the Tories did. Like their American counterparts, "New Labour" decided that losing to the Right was preferable to winning with the Left. Only this time Corbyn got out the vote and has a good chance of forcing a second election -one he has an even better chance of winning.

Oh, and the Guardian can go fuck themselves sideways with a rusty crowbar. They smeared Corbyn for two years and now they want to jump on the bandwagon. Assholes.

This irritates me. Not that charisma isn't an important part of Sander's and Corbyn's success- indeed, its often vital in politics. But reducing it to just that, and saying it has nothing to do with platform, sounds like a desperate attempt by the Centre establishment types to pretend that they're just a one-off fluke, an anomaly, rather than acknowledge that their is deep and widespread dissatisfaction with Centrist Corporatist politics generally.

I read that as sarcasm. (eventually, although it did confuse me for a while.)

[The Romulan Republic]

Ah. It can be so hard to tell sometimes, especially on-line (where you don't get cues like facial expression and tone of voice), and when there's so much sincere stupidity in the world.

[Dartzap]

Kensington confirmed as going to Labour. Tories refused to believe until the third recount. One presumes the Oligarchs in the area were getting nostalgic for the Red flags, singing and manly bearded leaders.

[His Divine Shadow]

They'll get their wish in time.

[Thanas]

So after the worst campaign in recent history run by the conservatives, Corbyn still could not deliver a parliamentary majority.

[Dartzap]

I'm sure he'll have better luck next time against Boris. Which, uh, will probably be at the end of July...

[Dominus Atheos]

So after the worst campaign in recent history run by the conservatives, Corbyn still could not deliver a parliamentary majority.

It's not like multi-party parliamentary systems have anything but a cursory relation to he will of the people. Here's a video made after the last UK election:

[Iroscato]

So after the worst campaign in recent history run by the conservatives, Corbyn still could not deliver a parliamentary majority.

No, instead he significantly increased Labour's seats after being smeared day in, day out by the right-wing media and his own fucking party who accused him of everything under the sun including supporting terrorists. The Tories have lost their majority and will continue to look like the weak fools that they are by jumping into bed with...a party known for supporting terrorists.
Way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if this "coalition" falls apart by the end of the year and another election is needed.

[Dartzap]

He basically kneecapped the Tories, they won't be able to pass any austerity budget now. It gives the younger intake an opportunity to make a power grab and force 'em to the centre. There's more than a few already calling the campaign management an embarrassment, including from my own MP.

Something that really didn't help was everyone saying that the tactical choice in the South West was Lib Dem. In reality the Libs were pushed into third or worse by Labour - if I'd known what I know now, my vote would have been different, as I suspect many others would have been.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The only silver lining for the Tories is that the SNP got an absolute hammering from both Red and Blue, both of whom were all but wiped out in Scotland last time around. If May's only goal was to torpedo a Scottish Independence referendum, then it's mission accomplished.

[The Romulan Republic]

So after the worst campaign in recent history run by the conservatives, Corbyn still could not deliver a parliamentary majority.

It sounds pretty awful when you put it that way, and don't get me wrong, I'd have liked to see the Conservatives dealt a harsher blow.

But their are a few more positive sides to this:

1. The Conservatives lost their majority, and have had to form a barely-sufficient coalition just to hang on. They have been weakened.

2. Labour made huge gains, despite the efforts by some in Corbyn's own party to undermine him.

3. UKIP got thrashed (and I imagine that returning UKIP votes are probably a big part of why the Cons held on at all), which is cause for dancing in the streets all by itself.

I'm not sure weather the SNP's losses are a pro or con overall. I'm generally anti-separatist in sentiment, but their are much worse parties than the SNP, and to see them lose seats to the Cons isn't particularly appealing.

[Iroscato]

I think this is even better for Labour than an outright victory - now the Tories will inevitably fuck up Brexit talks and take the heat for it as they're led by a woman who couldn't negotiate her way off a motorway if she was driving a fucking tank, and we'll most likely see a major swing leftward whenever the next election rolls its sorry arse around.
There are a lot less knives at Corbyn's back now, and even with everything against him he came within 2% of the popular vote. We're in for a very interesting next couple of years...

[The Romulan Republic]

And a Corbyn victory will give a huge moral boost/credibility boost to genuinely Left wing progressives in other parts of the world (i.e., America). If Britain can go from a Conservative majority and Brexit to Corbyn, then someone like Bernie taking the Presidency doesn't seem like such a long shot.

Bernie is also backing Corbyn to an extent. He visited Britain shortly before the vote (a book tour, I think) and praised Corbyn, and posted on Facebook congratulating him on his success last night.

Well, the neo-fascists cooperate across international lines (Farage is friendly with Trump and Bannon, and also a person of interest in the Trump/Russia investigation). Maybe its time progressives do too, albeit hopefully through more ethical and legal means.

[Iroscato]

Shit, I feel more energised about the politics in my country than I think I ever have before. I'm ready to fucking go, bring on the next election you cunts.

[bilateralrope]

So after the worst campaign in recent history run by the conservatives, Corbyn still could not deliver a parliamentary majority.

It's not like multi-party parliamentary systems have anything but a cursory relation to he will of the people. Here's a video made after the last UK election:

That depends on the system used to allocate seats. Systems which allocate seats purely by having each seat represent one geographical area are always going to fail at representing views distributed evenly over the country.

Proportional systems do much better.

[His Divine Shadow]

So after the worst campaign in recent history run by the conservatives, Corbyn still could not deliver a parliamentary majority.

Go fuck yourself.

[Thanas]

So after the worst campaign in recent history run by the conservatives, Corbyn still could not deliver a parliamentary majority.

Go fuck yourself.

Because I think you might be drunk and/or not a responsible adult at the moment, I am going to let this one slide.

This time.

[His Divine Shadow]

You can ban me for all I care. I meant what I said.

[Thanas]

You can ban me for all I care. I meant what I said.

I suggest you cool off for a bit and cease posting in this thread for a while as to not make things worse.

[Dominus Atheos]

Thanas, are you threatening him with mod powers? For saying "go fuck yourself" to your opinion?

[Thanas]

Thanas, are you threatening him with mod powers? For saying "go fuck yourself" to your opinion?

As I am involved in this I will not act like a mod myself.

The other mods will decide what to do about this, or if it is worth any action at all. For the record, my recommendation was not to ban anybody, even though other users have been banned for daring somebody to ban someone in the past. Because I think HDS is merely blowing off steam instead of really trying to have a go at me and thus I rate this as a childish tantrum and nothing more.

[Darth Yan]

Didn't Corbyn say some dumbass things? Some of his comments about Israel are a little absurd (I'm not fond of Israel but I get that Judaism is distinct from Israel. There are those on the left who don't get the difference.)

[Darth Tanner]

Thanas is right, I'm not sure if May could have run a worse campaign or done more in her person or party to actively sabotage her vote... and yet she still hangs on and significantly increases her vote. Abbott really needs to be removed from the front bench, its crap like hers that made the greens a true laughing stock in the last election and its just handing own goals to the Tories.

It will be interesting to see if the Tories stab May in the back, I can't really see Boris or Rudd doing any better than her, alteast Rudd at least doesnt look like a zombie. I don't know who would be more of a car crash Boris or Fallon! I might have a cheeky bet on Fallon as the Tories love to surprise.

I also like some of the stories that Davidson is considering using her new found support and importance in a hung parliament to bend May over... that could go spectacularly wrong for the Tories in general is they are seen as pandering to Scottish needs to keep a majority going.

With the growth of the youth vote it will be interesting to see if it keeps going or simply loses interest for the next one considering it was a waste of time in getting any results.

[streetad]

The Labour party has a genuine problem with elements that can't tell that difference between Israeli government policy and Jewish people as a whole. To the extent that there were genuine antisemitic banners up in Bristol on Thursday. The party has mainly had a lid on it over the years but they are more visible now since all the fringe elements within the Labour party have rallied around Corbyn as an 'anti Labour establishment' figure.

Corbyn himself also suffers from his past as the kind of left-wing politician who was happy to get his picture taken with more or less anyone who was an opponent of Western capitalism or the 'establishment'.

In other news it looks like a revolt from the centrist section of the Tory party regarding our new evangelical Calvinist overlords is brewing which pretty much means a new election presumably in October. Recently anointed Britain's most popular Tory and saviour of the Union Ruth Davidson (a gay woman with an Irish Catholic wife, no less) is even threatening to split off the Scottish Conservatives as a separate party over it.

How that affects the Brexit negotiations, who the fuck knows at this point. Probably the only sensible solution at this point would be to appoint some kind off cross-party grand committee to deal with it.

[Ultonius]

Recently anointed Britain's most popular Tory and saviour of the Union Ruth Davidson (a gay woman with an Irish Catholic wife, no less) is even threatening to split off the Scottish Conservatives as a separate party over it.

She claims that she isn't.