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Darth Wong wrote:Yes! Another chapter! Great work, Stuart.

PS. How can they tell the passage of time in Hell? There's no Sun, so no way to tell day from night, correct? Or does McElroy have a timepiece that he's using?

If you'll recall, I had the marines pass McElroy a rucksack which was full of useful stuff. Since it included a contact schedule, I felt that it'd be safe to assume that clock or a wristwatch or something would be included. I also included a laptop and a digital camera because I felt that would be the best way to get a lot of information to McElroy and get a lot of information back to Earth: you record everything you can, and when it comes time to get resupplied, you chuck the hard drive(or the whole laptop) through the portal, receiving a fresh machine or drive to continue gathering data.

El Moose Monstero wrote:EDIT: Another chapter. Huzzah! I've not commented before, but it really is a most excellent and one of the more addictive stories I've had the pleasure to read.

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: Hell seems to be a really volcanically active place.

On this subject, do any of our resident experienced geologists have any thinking on volcanism in hell? I can't remember what we've seen so far apart from molten lava lakes and lots of ash in the air.

My plate tectonics knowledge is rubbish; what is needed for plate tectonics? A sufficiently strong convecting, spinning core underneath and water on the top to create thinner regions of crust which are more deformable to create the first plates? It's been 5 years since 101.

If hell is a sort of 3D mobius loop, and since magma has to come from somewhere, could it come from whatever interface exist between the rock and the dimension? (I'm not even remotely aware of the intricacies of this dimension, spatial stuff, so there's probably something conceptually wrong with that) With sufficient energy, could you have convection cells forming in this strong enough to drive tectonics?

The way I've conceived of hell, the dimension sliced parallel to the surface is a Klein bottle, but vertically it's a torus. Above the surface of Hell is its liquid underside, which provides the heat and light necessary to continue to sustain life on the surface. Geological activity is caused by local imperfections in the spacetime of Hell's little 'pocket universe', which do work on the rock and heat it up.

It looks like the psy-op on the part of the demons is doomed to failure, because it's going to be obvious the people with the brainwashing aren't from modern times, aren't destribing modern cities, etc.

Nice chapter, Stu, I was beginning to get the shakes.
If they've come across a samurai there must be countless other military men from a number of nations not too far away. I wonder if they'll come across a Brit, or a Pole, or a Russian any time soon?

I was starting to wonder about their reliance on Kitty. That is a pretty serious limitation; has Randi been scouring the mental hospitals for possible candidates to augment their portal team?

El Moose Monstero wrote:On this subject, do any of our resident experienced geologists have any thinking on volcanism in hell? I can't remember what we've seen so far apart from molten lava lakes and lots of ash in the air.

I've actually been doing a good deal of thinking on this. The answer is 'it depends'.

My plate tectonics knowledge is rubbish; what is needed for plate tectonics? A sufficiently strong convecting, spinning core underneath and water on the top to create thinner regions of crust which are more deformable to create the first plates? It's been 5 years since 101.

Its not just water. You can have tectonics absent oceans, you just need convecting magma and unevenly distributed rock density.

If hell is a sort of 3D mobius loop, and since magma has to come from somewhere, could it come from whatever interface exist between the rock and the dimension? (I'm not even remotely aware of the intricacies of this dimension, spatial stuff, so there's probably something conceptually wrong with that) With sufficient energy, could you have convection cells forming in this strong enough to drive tectonics?

In theory, yes. From what Stuart said, the continent of Hell is about the size of Pangaea. If there's any sort of ocean beyond that, it means we're dealing with a surface area greater than that of Mars. Mars, as we know, DID have tectonics at one point before it cooled. If Hell is significantly YOUNGER than our solar system, it may not have had time to cool off.

The other question is CAN it cool off? I know there's a sky, but what is beyond it? If hell is a closed dimension, it cannot radiate heat away.

If you have some form of tectonics, then you can presumably have whatever volcanic features you like. If there isn't plate tectonics, then shouldn't things be fairly homogeneous throughout hell?

Not necessarily. If you have uneven distribution of hot spots you can get some wickid thermals driving erosion. You can also have sudden, eruptive mountain-forming events which can similarly change your weather.

Lots of large shield volcanoes growing to similar sizes to Olympus Mons if hotspots remain fixed in one location. Lava lakes requires low viscosity magma, especially if humans can be immersed in it rather than just lying on the top burning. If hell is homogenous, this rules out massive explosive eruptions like Pinatubo, Krakatau, and larger, which can generate gigatons of fine ash and eject it high into whatever passes for Hell's stratosphere.

Olympus mons isn't huge because of a lack of tectonics, it is as large as it is because gravity on mars is 1/3 that of earth. In Hell, I would expect barring supernatural/magical intervention or widely varying rock chemistries, the maximum size of mountains in hell will be fairly comparable to earth. If you have an ongoing, eruptive volcano, that can give you high peaks.

I suppose if there were lots of hotspot style eruptions on a continuous basis, rather than the long time scales between mantle plumes you get on Earth, then maybe you could have very large fissure/fountain style eruptions, bigger even than those of Laki in 17xx, which managed to get ash from Iceland to Scotland (about 500 miles or so). Multiple mantle plume based volcanism would also pave the way for absolutely massive outpourings of lava. But the low viscosity might not let you bombard cities with volcanic bombs.

Again, that's assuming a uniform lithology. Its quite possible there are basaltic magma oceans as well as your thick, rhyolitic volcanoes.

In fact, given what we know of hell's geology we could be looking at extensive Natrocarbonatite volcano formation. It produces VERY viscous lava, horrible smells, and slightly more managable temperatures than others. Its a one-of-a-kind thing on earth, but there could be mountain ranges of them in Hell. Just food for thought.

As for what's driving all of it without tearing hell apart, I have no clue. It could be handwaved as the 'dimensional torsion' of Hell's nature imparting energy into the 'planet', or it could be that the soul-energy of the damned is what helps hold it all together.

If anyone has any specific geology questions I or another geologist (there's 2 or 3 knocking around SDN) could take a crack at it.

Now, to Stuart: How hard are they looking for another 'kitten' to do portals, or someone with the same ability that they could train to do so?

It's terribly ironic that you had Shep say, "I love that bird," when he's repeatedly expressed disapproval of the V-22. (I hope that motherfucking hybrid isn't the ONLY aircraft that can operate in Hell for extended periods.)

Overall, a good chapter. By the way, the samurai shouldn't disapprove of bows and arrows, so these weapons can be included in the next resupply.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:From what Stuart said, the continent of Hell is about the size of Pangaea. If there's any sort of ocean beyond that, it means we're dealing with a surface area greater than that of Mars.

Unless the leviathans can swim in LAVA, it's probably safe to assume there are large bodies of water in Hell. There MUST be some sort of environment suitable for the great herald that ate multiple torpedoes.

Sidewinder wrote:It's terribly ironic that you had Shep say, "I love that bird," when he's repeatedly expressed disapproval of the V-22. (I hope that motherfucking hybrid isn't the ONLY aircraft that can operate in Hell for extended periods.)

Overall, a good chapter. By the way, the samurai shouldn't disapprove of bows and arrows, so these weapons can be included in the next resupply.

Of course, he might just be a terrible shot with a bow.

Sidewinder wrote:It's terribly ironic that you had Shep say, "I love that bird," when he's repeatedly expressed disapproval of the V-22.

I know - unspeakably evil aren't I........

I know - unspeakably evil aren't I........

Some days I wonder if you're a demon really.....a deep cover agent.

Deadpan29 wrote:It looks like the psy-op on the part of the demons is doomed to failure, because it's going to be obvious the people with the brainwashing aren't from modern times, aren't destribing modern cities, etc.

From the demon's point of view, only a few humans have to fall for it to make the effort worthwhile (as long as that group includes someone who has the information they need). Of course, they're completely failing to consider the effect of their efforts on all the humans who see right through it.

MKSheppard wrote:

I know - unspeakably evil aren't I........

Some days I wonder if you're a demon really.....a deep cover agent.

Don't worry, given what the V-22 is built out of the specially coated rotor blades will probably last just long enough for sand to grind clear through the composite fuselage

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The other question is CAN it cool off? I know there's a sky, but what is beyond it? If hell is a closed dimension, it cannot radiate heat away.

If Hell can't cool off, how long would it take for it to become too hot to support life of any sort? Heat must be building up in it continuously after all, from radioactive decay, biological processes etc. Given that it presumably has enough radioactive decay (or some other heat-generating process) going on to give it a lava layer I suspect a dimension like that must have a pretty short habitable lifespan on the geologic scale.

The increase in heat isn't necessarily a given. Remember, hell is its own universe with very specific qualities. It may not have a core, or if it does the decay of radioactive elements may be negligible if Hell-planet has a very different composition. Biological processes wouldn't do much to change it, either. No, the big x-factor is what (if any) ocean processes occur in hell. An ocean is a BIG reservoir for energy and pollutants. Just ask venus.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:

Sidewinder wrote:It's terribly ironic that you had Shep say, "I love that bird," when he's repeatedly expressed disapproval of the V-22. (I hope that motherfucking hybrid isn't the ONLY aircraft that can operate in Hell for extended periods.)

Overall, a good chapter. By the way, the samurai shouldn't disapprove of bows and arrows, so these weapons can be included in the next resupply.

Of course, he might just be a terrible shot with a bow.

Considering the period they think he's from he's got to be at least a fair shot, from horseback at least or he never would been samurai. Part of the 'final exam' so to speak to earn ones place was to shoot a spot the size of a peach on a target from horseback at full gallop. Now his ability to fire from the ground may be weak. That said he's going to to be a very happy swordsman when presented with a modern alloy katana compared to the shitty medieval japan steel.

That said this guy and his buddies if they find any are a huge advantage psychologically speaking, in japanese myth demons/oni/yomi/ect are not invincible. He doesn't have to get past that idea, a rather large number of those myths are about samurai who become legendary warriors slaying them.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Remember, hell is its own universe with very specific qualities. It may not have a core, or if it does the decay of radioactive elements may be negligible if Hell-planet has a very different composition.

Wouldn't there have to be some sort of heat source to have a lava layer, otherwise the place would eventually become evenly warm instead of having a hot molten layer and a cool habitable layer?

Then again, maybe the heat was generated very early in its history and the process of temperature equalization is still ongoing.

Setesh wrote:That said this guy and his buddies if they find any are a huge advantage psychologically speaking, in japanese myth demons/oni/yomi/ect are not invincible. He doesn't have to get past that idea, a rather large number of those myths are about samurai who become legendary warriors slaying them.

I can just see it now.

"...did he just decap a baldrick?"

"He sure did, Captain."

"Let Hell's legions tremble before me; with this enchanted sword I shall now regain vengeance and honour."

We know the baldies don't like iron and it causes them unusual pain, so that sword might not be such a useless weapon after all. Mind you, the Garand is still better, but it's also got an ammo limitation. 10 rounds over 4 weeks is a pretty harsh ration: they are allowed to fire one shot every three days. They might need their samurai friend's blade artistry sooner than they think. Then again, he doesn't actually have that sword yet.

The trident is still a major problem, though. That's a ranged weapon, and it's probably powerful enough to paralyze a human, even the supernaturally robust humans in Hell.

Maybe they can devise electrical insulating suits for the infantry. Conventional body armour is pointless against the baldies, who blast you with electricity or claw you to death.

Junghalli wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Remember, hell is its own universe with very specific qualities. It may not have a core, or if it does the decay of radioactive elements may be negligible if Hell-planet has a very different composition.

Wouldn't there have to be some sort of heat source to have a lava layer, otherwise the place would eventually become evenly warm instead of having a hot molten layer and a cool habitable layer?

Then again, maybe the heat was generated very early in its history and the process of temperature equalization is still ongoing.

If hell is only a few hundred-thousand years old, that cooling process hasn't had a lot of time to work yet. We just don't yet know enough. Here's a question; Is there a SKY in hell, or is it just a vault of murky clouds high in the air? Hell might be on the inside of some massive chamber for all we know.

Then again, he doesn't actually have that sword yet.

I bet Japan would be happy to send one of their master bladesmith's best works to the US as a contribution to the war effort.

Darth Wong wrote:The trident is still a major problem, though. That's a ranged weapon, and it's probably powerful enough to paralyze a human, even the supernaturally robust humans in Hell.

It knocks them out for a few hours, as per the riot in Tartarus.

Maybe they can devise electrical insulating suits for the infantry. Conventional body armour is pointless against the baldies, who blast you with electricity or claw you to death.

Would it work for the clothes to have a conducting layer on the outside running down to cleats on the boots as grounds?

Surlethe wrote:Would it work for the clothes to have a conducting layer on the outside running down to cleats on the boots as grounds?

Probably not. The energy levels we're talking about would almost certainly flash-vaporise any metalic layer thin enough to be flexible; still, it's possible that would reduce the damage from 'dead' to 'severely burned'. The value of the bronze armour Belial's nobility have is very limited in close combat, but I'm assuming it's quite effective at preventing damage from lightning bolts - of course it's much more massive than a layer of foil (or web of thin cables) and won't heat up so quickly.

The fact that the larger demons can fire bolts that start to cause a tank (usually a very effective Faraday cage) significant problems is interesting; naga firing on a tank would probably have a similar result, as they're not as big but something like 40% of their body mass is electrical generator tissue.

Yes, I'm sure there MUST be a Japanese master sword smith who has built an uber Katana at some point, using modern metallurgical techniques that would make the most awesome weapon for their friend, probably inscribed with Kanji declaring the weilder of the weapon to be a true bad ass or something.

That plus I'm sure our samurai won't have any problems with being given a Rambo style Bow and Arrow, with explosive heads on the end

I'm sure Japan will soon make an Anime about it as well

Awesome, awesome chapter Stuart.

I was thinking Captain Stevenson would have gotten a velcro ACU patch rather than Class A insignia.
That's assuming the Army is wearing ACUs (or hell patterned ACUs) in hell.

Eulogy wrote:I can just see it now.

"...did he just decap a baldrick?"

"He sure did, Captain."

"Let Hell's legions tremble before me; with this enchanted sword I shall now regain vengeance and honour."

Well of course! It's a Plus One weapon after all