World of Tanks

[The Infidel]

Thanks, xthetenth.

I need to went a bit. What is it with these fucking noob campers? Had a heavy battle in Murovanka now (played top), where 4 of us went to the hills on left side. Some were in forest. Fair enough, because you don't know what the enemy will do yet. The four of us met then 6-7 of the enemy and we were clearly outgunned. Since we now knew that the main force of the enemy was at the hills, it was unlikely that a major assault would come through the forrest. We ask for help. What is the best thing to do?
A) Come and help us and win the fight and most likely the game.
B) Camp in the forrest and close your eyes to the cries of help because you're afraid your fucking paintjob will be scratched.
Clearly, most of my team thought option B was the right answer, so what happend is that the enemy force overrun us, then overrun the fucking forest friends by sheer numbers.

Also: In too many battles lately, I see tanks that never move, players afk. I think this happens way too often now. Have lost many battles because 2-3 of our tanks never move. Does WoT have a problem or is this simply idiots who leave the game because they don't like the MM or whatever? Most of the times, their names are white, not grey.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Oh I HATE when people do that (both the camping and the sitting around the whole game). In the latter case...it might just be people who hate the MM and aren't playing. It is possible to run an internet window at the same time as WoT (at least on my computer) so it may be people who just sit there and camp while doing something else. Or they just left the game...

[The Infidel]

Yeah, sometimes I feel like reporting them, but can't say for sure if they have problems with their computer or with their minds. Once, one actually wrote that he was fed up by bad MM and would leave, then left. He got a lot of reports inthat game.

Once, I had this guy on my team. He just cried for help and hid in the forrest. Didn't do anything at all until the rest of us had taken out all but one enemy. Then he rushed to capture the base. I almost reported him for unfair play, but thought he might had had a problem with his connection. After the game, I checked his stats and found out what looser he is. Come on. You manage to do ONE kill for every 11-12 battles? 15% hit rate?

Does it matter if you report someone? What happens if he get a lot of reports? Will Wargaming take action? Do anything at all?

[Simon_Jester]

Jesus, that kid's a sad sack even compared to me...

(And yes, I am doing some things wrong, especially in certain tanks. Advice is welcome, UR FUCKEN NOOB is not, I do try and I'm a reasonably good fighter in at least some of my favored tanks, I think).

3 of us. Playing fully upgraded Grille's on El Hallouf.

I got 3 kills, 6 damages. The others got 2 kills each and damages. We spread ourselves out so no one had cover from all of us and concentrated our fire. It was devastatingly effective.

It would be devastatingly effective because if tanks actually operated in a threat environment with tons of mega-accurate artillery, their armoring schemes would be likely be completely different since their designers were not complete idiots. Instead we have tank armoring and guns within some sort of shouting distance of history and design specs going up against arty with abilities that would require guided munitions from at least the 1980's.

Yeah. For one, I bet most of the Tier V and up tanks would have something like a skirt armor plate to detonate shells coming in from above, at some standoff distance from the hull. Wouldn't stop shock from turning the crew to jelly necessarily, but it'd help a bit.

If you like arty gameplay, that's fine. I ground up to elite my hummel in both beta and live. But as I played the game, the less fun it was to be killed or crippled out of the blue because I broke the holy commandant of "Thou shallt hump a fucking rock".

I don't feel like it's as bad as you describe; I still get killed by tanks a lot more often than I get killed by artillery. Also, without artillery the game would favor tactical defense so massively that it would be hard to play at all, as xthetenth notes.

I wonder if artillery is a bit less nasty than when you played. There was at least one round of "HE nerf" that happened since then.

Thanks, xthetenth.

I need to went a bit. What is it with these fucking noob campers? Had a heavy battle in Murovanka now (played top), where 4 of us went to the hills on left side. Some were in forest. Fair enough, because you don't know what the enemy will do yet. The four of us met then 6-7 of the enemy and we were clearly outgunned. Since we now knew that the main force of the enemy was at the hills, it was unlikely that a major assault would come through the forrest. We ask for help. What is the best thing to do?
A) Come and help us and win the fight and most likely the game.
B) Camp in the forrest and close your eyes to the cries of help because you're afraid your fucking paintjob will be scratched.
Clearly, most of my team thought option B was the right answer, so what happend is that the enemy force overrun us, then overrun the fucking forest friends by sheer numbers.

Also: In too many battles lately, I see tanks that never move, players afk. I think this happens way too often now. Have lost many battles because 2-3 of our tanks never move. Does WoT have a problem or is this simply idiots who leave the game because they don't like the MM or whatever? Most of the times, their names are white, not grey.

Speaking for emyself, I probably get called away from the computer to do something once every... what, 30, 40, 50 matches?

It happens. I have a family, and I'm not apologetic about that. But it doesn't explain two or three people being AFK at the same time, except for massive bad luck.

Back when my machine's drivers were un-updated, it would seize up predictably every other game, leaving my tank catatonic until I logged back in, about every two or three matches. Though I played only low tier tanks then.

[AniThyng]

The thing that bugs me about arty in game is that you don't really get a "barrage" feel, you know, arty splashing everywhere but not hitting anything in particular. Instead of putting in SPGs themselves, maybe it would have made more sense to have arty be offmap and be "more accurate" given time and more spotters on a target. But too late for that anyways.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Well, I don't think mine is too horrible...

I'm hardly the best player out there, but I have about a quarter as many kills as matches, so I tend to get at least one kill for every couple matches. And I certainly don't hang back when I can avoid it, especially considering my low survival rating

[Vanas]

My current goal is to deploy the 3601's godhammer and killfrenzy my way to unity in terms of the kill:match at least. My weakness there is the Löwe, in which I just can't kill one tank per match.

I'm not really sure how much advice I can provide: obviously you've got more matches than me, in the wrong tanks. Still, my win rate and kill rate in mine are two totally separate things. So long as you're contributing to the team, it's a good thing.

[Simon_Jester]

Ideally, you'd want to have at least as many kills as deaths- that's the sign of a genuinely competent player in my opinion. I get about three kills for every five matches, and about four kills for every five deaths. Which doesn't speak that well of me, but I've seen much worse.

Frankly, a 'good' survival rate in this game is probably something like 30-40%, tops. Most matches end with the total annihilation of the losing team, with only one or two survivors at most, and very heavy casualties on the winning team except for the occasional "fail team" walkover. So on a good day only 50% of the tanks entering a match are still alive at the end of it, and most of the time it's more like 25% or even 10%. Those dramatic battles that end in one-on-one duels between two surviving tanks? Those are not rare, and those end with a 3% survival rate.

So yeah, I'm not embarrassed by my ~23% survival rate, not particularly. I would be rather disheartened by a 14% rate. To me, that would mean I'm handling my tanks too aggressively. Which gets you isolated and chewed up by several enemy tanks simultaneously, and is therefore death. Even if my team wins I'm dying two thirds of the time at that rate...

The thing that bugs me about arty in game is that you don't really get a "barrage" feel, you know, arty splashing everywhere but not hitting anything in particular. Instead of putting in SPGs themselves, maybe it would have made more sense to have arty be offmap and be "more accurate" given time and more spotters on a target. But too late for that anyways.

The main problem then is that artillery isn't playable, it's a natural hazard that randomly damages tanks. You can't communicate with it or coordinate it.

It'd be like taking a first person shooter and just randomly setting it in a thunderstorm, with some random risk of the characters getting struck by lightning. It's good for a one-off, but not as a routine thing.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Not so much that I'm agressive, more that I keep ending up as the last person on teams with horrible odds of survival. But I freely admit I die...a LOT. I'm working on improving that though...

EDIT: And perhaps much more importantly...I really don't care about my win/loss rate, or how often I survive. I play this for the fun of playing it, the stats really don't matter to me. I should care more about the death rate considering it effects my XP earned, but I really don't...

[The Infidel]

It happens. I have a family, and I'm not apologetic about that. But it doesn't explain two or three people being AFK at the same time, except for massive bad luck.

I guess that's it. Happens to some of my friends, too. Normally, all players play, but I guess I hit the bad end of statistics the last days. I've also played a bit on the testserver, and there it seems that more tanks are inactive. When I was grinding to heavier and heavier tanks, I never enjoyed low tier much, but now, that I have IS-4 and stuff, my favorites are the BT-2 and SU-26. T18 with 75mm howitzer is also fun. BT-2 is fast and agile. It has a very good gun for it's tier, too. Man, I love those small things.

[PeZook]

Jesus, that kid's a sad sack even compared to me...

(And yes, I am doing some things wrong, especially in certain tanks. Advice is welcome, UR FUCKEN NOOB is not, I do try and I'm a reasonably good fighter in at least some of my favored tanks, I think).

I don't know dude, you seem about average...remember that this IS a team game, so a player who doesn't survive a whole lot of battles is not necessarily bad ; I've had my share of battles when I met a violent and sudden death, but still felt like I helped, by holding up a flank, messing up an advance, stuff like that. Likewise, since victory is a team effort, and match making puts you together with random guys, the fact most people have about a 50/50 win/loss ratio is...well, average. Right in the middle of the bell curve. Call it practical statistics.

[Simon_Jester]

Not so much that I'm agressive, more that I keep ending up as the last person on teams with horrible odds of survival. But I freely admit I die...a LOT. I'm working on improving that though...

EDIT: And perhaps much more importantly...I really don't care about my win/loss rate, or how often I survive. I play this for the fun of playing it, the stats really don't matter to me. I should care more about the death rate considering it effects my XP earned, but I really don't...

For me, it's more like, am I playing this game well? Are other people glad I'm on the team?

And I can look and say "By and large, I'm doing OK, but I could be doing better, but it's not horribly bad. Plus I try to be the one who warns people about open flanks and stuff, which is probably good even though it doesn't get reflected in my stats."

I guess that's it. Happens to some of my friends, too. Normally, all players play, but I guess I hit the bad end of statistics the last days. I've also played a bit on the testserver, and there it seems that more tanks are inactive. When I was grinding to heavier and heavier tanks, I never enjoyed low tier much, but now, that I have IS-4 and stuff, my favorites are the BT-2 and SU-26. T18 with 75mm howitzer is also fun. BT-2 is fast and agile. It has a very good gun for it's tier, too. Man, I love those small things.

Maybe it's because the XP and cash awards are so high that people are saying "I can sit out doing nothing for five minutes and just move and shoot a little toward the end of the match and still get tons of XP and credits?"

[OmegaChief]

You do seem about average from what I can see Simon, and jeez, how do you guys get so much XP!

Though if we're sharing profiles here's mine for you to giggle at.

[weemadando]

Yeah, I have to go afk randomly due to kid issues.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I'm not sure how they get so much XP personally. As for your profile Omega...you seem about even with me. Slightly more battles, and a slightly lower survival rating seems about the only real difference.

And Simon...part of the reason my survival rating is so low is because most of the tanks I play are light scouts, which means I have to go looking for the enemy. And that means that quite often I end up in the middle of their main thrust...thus dying a horrible flaming death via four or more shells hitting me at once.

You'll also notice my best tank as far as win/loss ratio is the AMX 40...that's because it survives so much better than the other tanks I use. So I think I do my job well, I just get unlucky when scouting that's all.

[Simon_Jester]

OK, that's fair.

I personally hate playing scouts, and play my AMX 12 as a very small medium tank instead of a light. So I don't have a lot of experience there.

The closest I ever came to scouting was the A-20, which I never really treated as a scout tank. I always thought of it as more of a very fast self-propelled battering ram...

[Skywalker_T-65]

I don't particuarly like it myself, but I've only now reached Tier five where I can reliably play something else. The only tanks I have that don't fit the 'scout at all costs' method are the Lee, III/IV and 12t.

Plus, my main money earner remains the premium Stuart, which is most definetly a scout, though the MM lets me occasionally bully a bunch of T2 tanks.

[weemadando]

I often play a very aggressive scout. Try and move as fast and quietly as I can to their back lines in order to illuminate their arty for our own.

Of course, pub games lead to this not being acted upon far too often.

[Vanas]

You do seem about average from what I can see Simon, and jeez, how do you guys get so much XP!

Higher tier matches get a bit more XP, as does going on a killfrenzy ramapage. Scouting gets XP, arty gets XP, but flipping out and damaging or, better, killing tanks is better for that sort of thing.

[Simon_Jester]

I don't particuarly like it myself, but I've only now reached Tier five where I can reliably play something else. The only tanks I have that don't fit the 'scout at all costs' method are the Lee, III/IV and 12t.

Plus, my main money earner remains the premium Stuart, which is most definetly a scout, though the MM lets me occasionally bully a bunch of T2 tanks.

My advice is to try and get the hang of the tactical differences- especially using the III/IV, which plays a bit more like a normal medium than either of the others.

The Sherman 105 should be fun; I enjoyed it even though my performance wasn't great. Like the M2 Medium/75mm, it's often matched against things it can't kill, but rarely matched against things it can't hurt.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Yeah, I've noticed how different the III/IV is...and its also shown I'm going to be a medium player, considering it is my favorite tank so far. I'm going to go for the Tiger and at least try it out, but I will probably end up with the Panther as my main tank.

[Simon_Jester]

We can always use more medium players. At least that's my feeling; a lot of public matches suffer from a dearth of mediums.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Yep, noticed that too. Far to often you'll see a bunch of heavies, and some scouts with nothing in the middle. Which is another reason why my survival rating sucks.

[xthetenth]

I'm looking forward to the tier ten mediums, hopefully that'll help even things out in the long run, since players won't get told that heavy tanks are it for clan wars and they won't have a shorter tree without a Tier Ten™ at the end to look awesome. I know I'm going to be trying to turn my M46 and T-54 into an M48 and a T-62A once the patch drops, all I'll need after that is an E-50M and I'll have a T10 medium collection to match my T10 heavy collection if I want it.

Incidentally, the main stats that get tossed about when serious clan wars guys talk are win rate (actually somehow a 48% win rate is dead average as far as the player base, probably because the good players play more and take a greater share of the wins than the bad and new players take of the losses on a per person basis, so Simon, you aren't doing that badly. I don't do really well with general tips, I much prefer to see how someone else drives because there's a ton of little positioning things that make a lot of difference. However, I'd say that until you get to tier five the second time, you're going to be suffering under a resource (both credits and crew) and knowledge deficit that mean you really shouldn't get too worried about being below average till you get there, where you actually know what that tier is like and have a decently trained crew you can stick with for a while. Most of you guys have had enough of your games in the period before that that being below average is to be expected. It's hard even for a guy who knows the ins and outs of the tanks and maps like me when aiming takes 5 seconds and everything's stock and you're getting new stuff too fast to really get used to it. A bit back when I ground a friend's account to see if he wanted to try it, getting through to tier four was a huge pain and after that it got easier and it got even better after that. Before that though, for example, I had a 48% win rate in an M2 medium and ten fewer kills than games in the T-46 despite playing with noobs. It really took till I got into the T-50, T-28 and Lee till things went steadily well.

Also, if you want bad players... This guy wins at everything but knowing when to give up.

[Zinegata]

Ideally, you'd want to have at least as many kills as deaths- that's the sign of a genuinely competent player in my opinion. I get about three kills for every five matches, and about four kills for every five deaths. Which doesn't speak that well of me, but I've seen much worse.

Kill rate is not that relevant honestly, particularly since there are many situations like a Tier 8 heavy killing a Tier 5 medium that is kinda meaningless. A better benchmark is to calculate average damage (total damage divided by the number of matches) with the ideal goal being to equal or even exceed the HP of your tank.

For instance, the M103 has 1800 HP but I only do about 1750 damage per round, which means I still have some catching up to do.

[There's also a more refined tool that also calculates the amount of damage you take per match; and again the better players inflict more damage than they take]

A good kill count only really matters when paired with an excellent damage rate - as it shows that you know how to both maximize your damage output while picking off enemy tanks. A good kill rate without a high damage rate OTOH indicates a high likelihood of killing tanks that are far weaker than you that you should have left for your teammates to deal with (particularly important in high-tier matches, when a Tier 9's gun is the only thing that can frontally penetrate the other side's Tier 9)

I would also look at hit rate as an indicator of overall skill - for bigger tanks (Tier 7 +) there is no excuse to not have a hit rate of 80% unless you're a fast medium in which case 70% is the minimum. Even at lower tiers I'd say people should aim for 60-70%. It makes a big difference in upping the damage value.

Frankly, a 'good' survival rate in this game is probably something like 30-40%, tops.

30% is already fairly high, and 40% would put you somewhere in the top 1% I think.