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Hoth you're going to have to remember that Galvy is a ANH/TESB purist, and thinks Lucas' original script ideas are much better than anything later.

Ah, all right.

Darth Hoth wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Why? They shouldn't mirror the Jedi in every respect. Now they occupy the role of a secret society of gnostic heretics, kind of terroristic and occult in character. They should be the most exclusive club in the universe. I like the idea they have flunkies who are extensions for their will or think they're in on it when they're not. We're using Publius' works (particularly The New Order in Power, but also the presumably to-come The New Order at War) as in-house canon, so this stuff stays.

Furthermore, I have no idea what you're talking about with the old Sith. You mean the idiotic Tales of the Jedi Sith? Zombies and necromancers and black magic sorcerers? Them as a sect of Jedi heretics works much better.

I always figured the Sith to be more into the dispassionate, scientific study of the Force, as Palpatine did things; the Jedi would be the mumbo jumbo sect. However, I could see Sith posing as necromancers and black magic sorcerers to put fear in their enemies or whatnots. The "real" necromancers, if we have any, could be the Krath, who studied corrupted Sith teachings and did not understand much of them.

"Gnostic" is from Greek "gnosis" which merely means knowledge. The Sith's pursuit of forbidden knowledge is what made them heretics from the Jedi Order (akin to the Gnostic Christians and their assimilation of Greek philosophy). They are secret, they are hunted by the Jedi, their beliefs are damned. What does that sound like to you? Sounds like a heretic secret society. Their scientific ambitions are what makes them gnostic. They're not merely scientists of the Force. Just because they are a secret society and heretical doesn't mean they have to be like witches and idiots chanting incantations. It means they're like Palpatine and a glove for his philosophy. Galileo and other scientists were damned as heretics for challenging Church dogma. You're carrying too much baggage into the description.

I would even keep Anakin as the Chosen One. I wouldn't have Obi-Wan or his partner probably be stooges for the prophecy or whatever, rather just think he's got obscene talent and what have you and recruit him on that basis. I'd later have a group of Jedi soothsayers or mystics who think Anakin is a Chosen One and it goes to his head and screws with him (I'd not make the Jedi as critically screwed up, just like the Republic, however it must exhibit some flaws and bad decisions to contrast with Luke and the OT, giving Anakin a messiah complex due to mystic mumbo jumbo is part of it). It may be more subtlety done in the OT, but Luke is essentially the same; he's a man of destiny. He can actually defeat Vader and the Emperor where all others have failed. He's special. Anakin should be too.

I'd have Palpatine's narcissism rooted in the essential fact that he believes himself to be the end-product of the Sith, the overman of the ages. Until he meets Anakin, the only thing like him, and even worse yet, the only thing in the universe which could perhaps transcend him. And this becomes the source of his Skywalker monomania. He must bend them to his will, and remake them in his own image. He cannot tolerate them being out there and existing and knowing it, and he always fears that it will only be a matter of time til he is overcome by them unless he does it first.

We're keeping Dark Empire and The New Order in Power (I'd like The Test of Wills to be our version of Dark Empire, but I digress), which means Palpatine is essentially the same but how he got there can be changed.

Darth Hoth wrote:

We're keeping the Rule of Two. But I'd flesh out the predecessor of and the formation of "the Heirarchy" described by The New Order in Power.

We are? Why? I mean, if we do quite substantial rewrites of the Jedi and OR, we could reimagine the Sith as well. Why have an Order of two? That makes it supremely vulnerable to extinction by force, and precludes any reasonably serious internal politicking. A lot of story potential goes out the window, for no reason but sticking to Lucas's ret-cons.

Because the Banite Sith are the only interesting ones. Their insularity and subtlety and quality relative to the numerous, knight-like, and public Jedi is what draws contrast. Furthermore, the concept of the singular, and particular apprentice is implied by Return of the Jedi and definitely underscored by Dark Empire. Like I said, I'd have them be a cut-throat secret society, and the Two at the core are only the center of a web of intrugue and clientele (both Sith aspirant, cultist, and otherwise), so you end up with lots of flunkies like Hethrir or Ventress or Grevious who don't know they're being used, and who are the dirty hands of the Sith. The predecessors of the "Heirarchy" of The New Order in Power. This version works much more realistically and better than the Lucas-only version of two Sith with no support. Alternatively you could have many Sith cultists but only two real Sith Lords. Their relative smallness demands they remain subtle and aloof and devious. It makes them smart instead of blunt.

Darth Hoth wrote:While we are at it, I would petition for the elimination of "Darth" as a title. Kenobi quite clearly identified it as Vader's first name, pure and simple, in ANH. We should leave it at that.

Kenobi is not a Sithologist. I don't mind Darth as an analogue to "Caesar" and I don't mind that Sith regarding their identities as Sith to be a figurative rebirth as an uebermenschen.

As for the fall of the Republic, it would be cast into the background but Palpatine and Anakin would be front-and-center. Their relationship is the quintessential one of the prequels. And that means showing Palpatine's maturation as a despot would be important. However, like Galvatron the Senate and Palpatine should be shown as it matters. For example Episode I might have nothing but references to machinations on Coruscant and a brief Senate scene if that, and then Palpatine at the very end giving a medal to Anakin. The heavy Anakin-Palpatine interaction would be toward the end of PT, when he is seduced by him.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:"Gnostic" is from Greek "gnosis" which merely means knowledge. The Sith's pursuit of forbidden knowledge is what made them heretics from the Jedi Order (akin to the Gnostic Christians and their assimilation of Greek philosophy). They are secret, they are hunted by the Jedi, their beliefs are damned. What does that sound like to you? Sounds like a heretic secret society. Their scientific ambitions are what makes them gnostic. They're not merely scientists of the Force. Just because they are a secret society and heretical doesn't mean they have to be like witches and idiots chanting incantations. It means they're like Palpatine and a glove for his philosophy. Galileo and other scientists were damned as heretics for challenging Church dogma. You're carrying too much baggage into the description.

Perhaps there was some misunderstanding; I think I actually meant to agree with you, while trying to cover/gloss over the actual "chanting witches".

Because the Banite Sith are the only interesting ones. Their insularity and subtlety and quality relative to the numerous, knight-like, and public Jedi is what draws contrast. Furthermore, the concept of the singular, and particular apprentice is implied by Return of the Jedi and definitely underscored by Dark Empire.

Is it necessarily? Could that not be taken to be Palpatine's particular obsession with the last remaining Jedi? And two Sith alone does sound distinctly minimalist. I am not saying they must field vast armies, but but I would suggest incorporating at least the upper level Dark Side Adepts in the actual Sith cult. Surely Palpatine is not doing all his wizarding by himself.

Kenobi is not a Sithologist. I don't mind Darth as an analogue to "Caesar" and I don't mind that Sith regarding their identities as Sith to be a figurative rebirth as an uebermenschen.

I have no problem with them taking new names, but the "name-title" is useless and irrelevant, not to mention that it detracts from Vader's character and individuality. Nor does it mesh well with the strong Sithian focus on individualism, as opposed to the (in our version hopefully somewhat toned down) Jedi doctrine of conformity. No, the original Darth should be one of his kind.

Primus,

What is your opinion and thoughts on the ideas I presented about the locations for Episodes 1-3. As well as your thoughts on my written Episode 1?

And while I don't think that we should spent so much of our time figuring out the backroom politics, certain things need to be shown. And I think that one of them is Palpatine becoming Chancellor and then again when he becomes Emperor.

The politics do not take away from the setting they enhance it. And since we are not constrained by time or budget why should we remove it when it is potentially useful and interesting.

For example, I would have loved to see (in the actual episode 3 movie) a scene with Padme and Mon Mothma talking about the Alliance. I think it would have been fitting. Its dialog, its politics, but it is interesting, informative and useful.

Darth Hoth

I don't see any need to change the Darth tradition.

Also, if we keep the Rule of Two I firmly beleive that all it applies to is the higher end of the Sith Hieararchy - the actual indivduals with true and pretty much near unrestricted knoweldge of Sith stuff. Their should be Sith agents, servants, minions, acolytes and all that. They are sith, but they are not Sith.

And remember, as I have said this before, the Force is Magic. And thus a single person can do with it so much stuff that defies logic and science. It is an unending energy that can be used, with enough potential and training, to do pretty much anything. It is not minimalist because it is not a science fiction aspect it is a fantasy aspect.

The fact that the Sith have done all that they do with just two true Sith is an interesting facet of what they are. It makes them unique to the masses of Jedi that exist.

Darth Hoth wrote:Perhaps there was some misunderstanding; I think I actually meant to agree with you, while trying to cover/gloss over the actual "chanting witches".

Good.

Darth Hoth wrote:Is it necessarily? Could that not be taken to be Palpatine's particular obsession with the last remaining Jedi? And two Sith alone does sound distinctly minimalist. I am not saying they must field vast armies, but but I would suggest incorporating at least the upper level Dark Side Adepts in the actual Sith cult. Surely Palpatine is not doing all his wizarding by himself.

Why not? He's subtle, not a blunt instrument, though he can be. Are we talking about the same being who is consuming the galaxy into himself, obscures the vision of the Jedi, destroys fleets with his will, can jump bodies, and twist living things with mere will? He can kill people at a distance. He can kill many people with mere thoughts.

Darth Hoth wrote:I have no problem with them taking new names, but the "name-title" is useless and irrelevant, not to mention that it detracts from Vader's character and individuality. Nor does it mesh well with the strong Sithian focus on individualism, as opposed to the (in our version hopefully somewhat toned down) Jedi doctrine of conformity. No, the original Darth should be one of his kind.

I don't think so. I think its better for them to come up with their own name, but also to pay respect to Darth Bane, the founder of their sect by taking his name as their own. But I'm willing to let the issue rest and give them assumed names that don't necessarily include "Darth."

Hoth, I edited my previous posts. Its a bad habit considering our response times, I'll refrain from doing it again.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:However, like Galvatron the Senate and Palpatine should be shown as it matters. For example Episode I might have nothing but references to machinations on Coruscant and a brief Senate scene if that, and then Palpatine at the very end giving a medal to Anakin. The heavy Anakin-Palpatine interaction would be toward the end of PT, when he is seduced by him.

I can live with that. Although I'm still unsure as to the necessity of involving Palpatine in Anakin's seduction.

Remember if we write up the prequel replacements they should be mindful of what they are. Primarily they're the story of the Rise and Fall of Anakin Skywalker, so Palpatine starts out present but peripheral, and Obi-Wan and Anakin front and center; Palpatine rises as the story moves to be as front and center as Obi-Wan. The core saga is essentially the story of Palpatine and the Skywalkers (remember, on the other end we'll still have Palpatine in The Test of Wills/Dark Empire, and rehabilitating it would be helped by counterbalancing it with what we do with the prequels).

I don't possibly see how Palpatine can't be the major figure in Anakin's seduction. Tarkin is a secularist. Palpatine is the Sith Master, we're absolutely not discarding that. For better or worse we're sticking with the OT and post-ROTJ Bantam EU. Which means that the Saga as defined by ROTJ concluding the films is what we're working with, not what "could've been done if you were George Lucas in 1980". And for me, as Palpatine exists, he's the most interesting character in the entire series.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I would even keep Anakin as the Chosen One. I wouldn't have Obi-Wan or his partner probably be stooges for the prophecy or whatever, rather just think he's got obscene talent and what have you and recruit him on that basis. I'd later have a group of Jedi soothsayers or mystics who think Anakin is a Chosen One and it goes to his head and screws with him (I'd not make the Jedi as critically screwed up, just like the Republic, however it must exhibit some flaws and bad decisions to contrast with Luke and the OT, giving Anakin a messiah complex due to mystic mumbo jumbo is part of it). It may be more subtlety done in the OT, but Luke is essentially the same; he's a man of destiny. He can actually defeat Vader and the Emperor where all others have failed. He's special. Anakin should be too.

I'd have Palpatine's narcissism rooted in the essential fact that he believes himself to be the end-product of the Sith, the overman of the ages. Until he meets Anakin, the only thing like him, and even worse yet, the only thing in the universe which could perhaps transcend him. And this becomes the source of his Skywalker monomania. He must bend them to his will, and remake them in his own image. He cannot tolerate them being out there and existing and knowing it, and he always fears that it will only be a matter of time til he is overcome by them unless he does it first.

I would rather do away with the entire "prophecy" thing. To me, it makes Anakin's choosing evil more tragic, not less, if he is not preordained to do it. His interactions with Palpatine could still work, just have him be the greatest Jedi ever &c. like the videogames typically wank their characters.

Like I said, I'd have them be a cut-throat secret society, and the Two at the core are only the center of a web of intrugue and clientele (both Sith aspirant, cultist, and otherwise), so you end up with lots of flunkies like Hethrir or Ventress or Grevious who don't know they're being used, and who are the dirty hands of the Sith. The predecessors of the "Heirarchy" of The New Order in Power. This version works much more realistically and better than the Lucas-only version of two Sith with no support. Alternatively you could have many Sith cultists but only two real Sith Lords. Their relative smallness demands they remain subtle and aloof and devious. It makes them smart instead of blunt.

A lot of acolytes/lower level players but only one or two lords. I could buy into that. Perhaps with an intermediate tier added for close attendants and semi-equal partners like Jerec or Kadann.

As for the fall of the Republic, it would be cast into the background but Palpatine and Anakin would be front-and-center. Their relationship is the quintessential one of the prequels. And that means showing Palpatine's maturation as a despot would be important. However, like Galvatron the Senate and Palpatine should be shown as it matters. For example Episode I might have nothing but references to machinations on Coruscant and a brief Senate scene if that, and then Palpatine at the very end giving a medal to Anakin. The heavy Anakin-Palpatine interaction would be toward the end of PT, when he is seduced by him.

Could work with me. But we do not go all the way as Lucas did and make the first film unnecessary and self-contained, right? It should still tie into the larger picture - e.g., perhaps you could have Anakin engaged in the first film, married in the second? Introduce a recurring villain? I am just speculating on the fly.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Why not? He's subtle, not a blunt instrument, though he can be. Are we talking about the same being who is consuming the galaxy into himself, obscures the vision of the Jedi, destroys fleets with his will, can jump bodies, and twist living things with mere will? He can kill people at a distance. He can kill many people with mere thoughts.

Yes, but doing research is different from blowing things up; merely the input and point of view of a collaborator can help you no end. Ditto, I doubt he would do the routine work himself, ploughing through years of reading for a single obscure reference; he would leave that to some acolyte. I imagine Palpatine a rationally minded, if evil and somewhat reclusive, scholar who would use the scientific method, test hypotheses empirically, &c., discussing his results perhaps with a small group of confidants. Not so he gives away all his secrets, of course, but so that he allows them to help him.

I don't think so. I think its better for them to come up with their own name, but also to pay respect to Darth Bane, the founder of their sect by taking his name as their own. But I'm willing to let the issue rest and give them assumed names that don't necessarily include "Darth."

I would find that preferable, but that is just me.

Hoth, I edited my previous posts. Its a bad habit considering our response times, I'll refrain from doing it again.

All right. I went back to check them.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I don't possibly see how Palpatine can't be the major figure in Anakin's seduction. Tarkin is a secularist. Palpatine is the Sith Master, we're absolutely not discarding that.

As Obi-Wan said, Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force. Power sells itself. Palpatine needn't be there to convince Anakin to use his abilities to crush an enemy's windpipe or to commit atrocities for the greater good in a time of war.

Even Tarkin's influence could be ancillary, although Anakin would eventually discover that they both share similar goals of attaining peace and order by any means necessary. Then, when Tarkin is certain he can trust Anakin, he introduces the rogue Jedi to Palpatine as "one of us." Not a Sith, but an Imperialist.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:For better or worse we're sticking with the OT and post-ROTJ Bantam EU. Which means that the Saga as defined by ROTJ concluding the films is what we're working with, not what "could've been done if you were George Lucas in 1980".

I understand that. I really do, but I don't think what I'm suggesting violates that in any way.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And for me, as Palpatine exists, he's the most interesting character in the entire series.

I figured as much. Does that mean ROTJ is your favorite of the OT?

That is actually a really cool idea. But I do not think it meshes too well with Palpatine's singular focus on the Skywalkers, as Illuminatus brought up.

I don't see any reason why we should change things that work. Palpatine seducing Anakin is one of those things that work. It should stay.

Removal for removals sake should not occur in this project. Things that we change or modify or add or remove should be done because those actions make sense.

Palpatine working his psychological knoweldge on Anakin to try and get him to join him and fall is one of those things. It speaks about both Anakin and Palpatine's characters.

The first film is contained like the 4th film is contained. I don't see a problem with it.

It won't be as contained in our version because the Clone Wars are raging around. That means while they just defeated one opponent their are so many others. In fact we could end it with Anakin and Obi-Wan going onto a ship to head into another battle. You know as in a no rest for the weary.

++++

Look what I am saying is that if you wrote a story in which Anakin fell all by himself based on his own internal decisions I would read it. I don't oppose it.

But I love Palpatine and the psychological impact of what he does. The fact that he works to make others fall, that he knows what he is doing, does it and enjoys it. I gotta tell that control he exerts is one of the more entertaining aspects of the movie.

And the moment he becomes Emperor, the moment that he wins in RotS, well, that is one of the most telling of moments for me. It is brilliant I think. And I want that impact of him working on Anakin's mind for years to be retained in this project.

Darth Hoth wrote:That is actually a really cool idea. But I do not think it meshes too well with Palpatine's singular focus on the Skywalkers, as Illuminatus brought up.

I don't think he ever had a singular focus on the Skywalkers. That strikes me as an invention of the prequels and a symptom of the "chosen one" wankery. Prior to ROTJ, all Palpatine seemed concerned with was that Luke not become a Jedi. It was Vader's idea to turn him.

Galvatron wrote:I don't think he ever had a singular focus on the Skywalkers. That strikes me as an invention of the prequels and a symptom of the "chosen one" wankery. Prior to ROTJ, all Palpatine seemed concerned with was that Luke not become a Jedi. It was Vader's idea to turn him.

Well, not quite; that was in already in the Dark Empire series by the latest. Which we are keeping. Granted, the obsession might have started later, after he realised Skywalker's use.

Hmm, I am beginning to like the prospect of that scene. What say you, Illuminatus? Could we include at least some variant of that?

Galvatron wrote:

Darth Hoth wrote:That is actually a really cool idea. But I do not think it meshes too well with Palpatine's singular focus on the Skywalkers, as Illuminatus brought up.

I don't think he ever had a singular focus on the Skywalkers. That strikes me as an invention of the prequels and a symptom of the "chosen one" wankery. Prior to ROTJ, all Palpatine seemed concerned with was that Luke not become a Jedi. It was Vader's idea to turn him.

PRIOR TO ROTJ. Still, Luke was somehow gifted with the ability to destroy Palpatine where all else failed? For him to allow Vader to go on his damn search, and to call him off from a military mission to have a direct call personally on the matter is a huge focus on some singular kid. Furthermore, in ROTJ he set the entire thing up, including putting himself at personal risk, to seduce Skywalker. And we're keeping ROTJ and the EU, so throwing insults and disparagements on it is of no progress here. Still, I like the idea that Tarkin works personally with Anakin, especially in Ep II, and is a facilitator. I also like the idea his big role in ANH is underscored by him being a major supporter and subordinate to Palpatine. Have him talk about weapon development projects, postwar reconstruction/governing policy, and political strategy in a throwaway in Ep III, implying he's going to head up these huge portfolios. And next time we see him he's dictator of the outer regions and built the Death Star and is ruling through fear of force.

Admiral Felire wrote:Palpatine working his psychological knoweldge on Anakin to try and get him to join him and fall is one of those things. It speaks about both Anakin and Palpatine's characters.

You're right, but I think it detracts from Vader's character. I prefer a strong-willed Vader; someone who's in thrall to no man. He simply agrees to serve the emperor "for now" while their goals coincide, but he eventually decides that the galaxy would be better off with himself in charge. Hence, his covert pursuit of Luke in TESB and his offer to share the galaxy with his son.

He has no love for the emperor and he certainly wasn't "seduced" by the old fart. But that's just how I see it.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:PRIOR TO ROTJ. Still, Luke was somehow gifted with the ability to destroy Palpatine where all else failed? For him to allow Vader to go on his damn search, and to call him off from a military mission to have a direct call personally on the matter is a huge focus on some singular kid.

Luke has the potential to become a powerful Jedi, as he stated. Disregarding the prequels, we don't know how well the emperor stacks up to a powerful Jedi like Yoda. It's possible that Luke had raw power enough to threaten His Majesty if he ever became a fully-trained Jedi and remained untainted by the dark side of the Force.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Furthermore, in ROTJ he set the entire thing up, including putting himself at personal risk, to seduce Skywalker.

Luke's resilience at Bespin no doubt convinced Palpatine of the boy's worthiness of his personal intervention. I don't see how this infers some sort of a multi-generational hard-on for the entire Skywalker clan though.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And we're keeping ROTJ and the EU, so throwing insults and disparagements on it is of no progress here.

huh?

It's logical that the Emperor would want Vader to turn Luke. Vader isn't going to be around forever, and someone else will be needed to keep the Imperial military and Palpatine's other Force sensitive minions in check.

Maybe we should keep Anakin completely away from Tatooine? I know the reasons Kenobi had for stashing Luke with Owen and Beru, but it still stretched incredulity.

As I said before, I'd make Anakin's wife Beru's sister. Hence the different surnames.

Prior to the start of Episode 1, young Anakin (already a Jedi and veteran of a prior war) has settled down on Tatooine with his new wife, content to live the simple existence as a moisture farmer. Then Obi-Wan arrives, recruits his former apprentice for yet another war, Owen objects and the rest is history.

I would like to see an actual romance, there. Rather, I would have young, successful farmer and militia leader Anakin Skywalker living on some peaceful planet (Tatooine?), with the Clone Wars jumping down on him. The Jedi arrive with a relief force, and they and Anakin's militia beat the bad guys. Then, sensing the Force in him, Kenobi, whom he first met during the battle, recruits him for the Order. On the grand adventure, he will become a general, find a wife, &c.

I would think that Anakin and Padme should meet in the actual episode. Then they should be kept apart over the years due to the wars and stuff. That way they do not breed.

I also do not have a problem with romantic elements, if done in a real way and not the bullshit way done in the movies. And if they are both adults then there won't be any problem or kiddy comments.

What we could do, is have them meet Anakin when they go to Tattoine. But Anakin is an adult and works as a moisture farmer. Something could happen, violence, terrorist actions or whatever. At the end of their time on Tattoine they take Anakin with them when they go to Coruscant.

We can do what you want to do while at the same time keeping the general plot of the First Episode the same.

Galvatron wrote:

Admiral Felire wrote:Palpatine working his psychological knoweldge on Anakin to try and get him to join him and fall is one of those things. It speaks about both Anakin and Palpatine's characters.

You're right, but I think it detracts from Vader's character. I prefer a strong-willed Vader; someone who's in thrall to no man. He simply agrees to serve the emperor "for now" while their goals coincide, but he eventually decides that the galaxy would be better off with himself in charge. Hence, his covert pursuit of Luke in TESB and his offer to share the galaxy with his son.

Of course. He always thinks this. But I prefer characters with tragic flaws. Vader's is his inner emptiness and codependency. He is stuck with Palpatine due to a twisted, Oedipal love for him. Contrariwise, his son's love is unconditional and unlike Palpatine, he doesn't belittle him and make him feel insecure. Vader is the character you say, except when it comes to Palpatine. Which is what makes him dynamic and interesting and flawed.

Galvatron wrote:He has no love for the emperor and he certainly wasn't "seduced" by the old fart. But that's just how I see it.

But that's not the way it is.

Galvatron wrote:Luke has the potential to become a powerful Jedi, as he stated. Disregarding the prequels, we don't know how well the emperor stacks up to a powerful Jedi like Yoda. It's possible that Luke had raw power enough to threaten His Majesty if he ever became a fully-trained Jedi and remained untainted by the dark side of the Force.

Meh, so you are using the absence of hackneyed Lucas in-your-face bluntness in this case as an excuse to disparage Palpatine's grandeur? ROTJ makes it clear he's terrifically powerful and without him doing anything. That's what's smart about it. Furthermore, we're keeping DE and DESB and TNOiP. So yes, that IS Palpatine.

Galvatron wrote:Luke's resilience at Bespin no doubt convinced Palpatine of the boy's worthiness of his personal intervention. I don't see how this infers some sort of a multi-generational hard-on for the entire Skywalker clan though.

Uh, Vader didn't kill him because he wanted to recruit him. That, and he risked himself personally, his goddamn Death Star, and the destruction of the Rebellion for a stage act to convert Skywalker. That's obsessive and a tragic flaw.

Galvatron wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And we're keeping ROTJ and the EU, so throwing insults and disparagements on it is of no progress here.

huh?

You keep implying we're not constrained by DE, ROTJ, and TNOiP. Those are part of the constraints of the project. That's part of what is settled. We're not changing the whole saga. We're changing how it got to the OT and the ROTJ EU. And quite honestly, I don't know why you have such a hard-on for Tarkin. ROTJ and ROTS Palpatine (especially before he went all Sidious) is much more interesting.

Galvatron wrote:As I said before, I'd make Anakin's wife Beru's sister. Hence the different surnames.

Or he's hiding from his brother which we know is a goddamn galactic warlord and Attila the Hun? Seriously?

Galvatron wrote:Prior to the start of Episode 1, young Anakin (already a Jedi and veteran of a prior war) has settled down on Tatooine with his new wife, content to live the simple existence as a moisture farmer. Then Obi-Wan arrives, recruits his former apprentice for yet another war, Owen objects and the rest is history.

You think a strong Palpatine is stupid, but not Anakin-from-Tattooine? Anyway, this rejects a real development of Anakin's character from young and immature (like Luke) to a man and how he's influenced by Obi-Wan versus Palpatine etc. It totally robs the gravitas of his maturation and seduction if you start him off mature and married and already a well-settled Jedi. You've made him Obi-lite with a folksy wife.

I'm doing research for the project. I have two weeks of nothing (up in Gainesville by myself with only work, school out, girlfriend and friends out of town). So I'm going to sit down with a notebook and watch the both Trilogies both in chronological order and in the order-they-were-made (a week or so apart so its somewhat fresh each time) and record my impressions each time. I'm going to re-read the early drafts. I'm also going to wrap up The Third Reich in Power (a highly recommended read), having already finished The Coming of the Third Reich and hopefully get into Napoleon: A Political Life. I'm also going to try and re-read the Tech Commentaries, the Domus Publica, The New Order in Power, and a couple of sundry fanfics and fan fluff and research here and there. I recommend for others to take their own research sojourn, and then we can start writing in earnest.

Stuff to come:

Early outlines of the GoDV rewrite, early outline of the PT and notes on historical analogs and theme concepts, early outline of my concept for the Second/Legacy Empire, and an early outline of my concept of the NJO arc.

Also, I may sound a little harsh on Galvy's ideas, but that's because my enthusiasm for Palpatine and some of Lucas' ideas is greater than his. Contrariwise, I am really supportive of them for their own story concept (like the Second Empire arc), and think it could be done quite interestingly with a core inspiration of Lucas' early drafts and the idea of a retired adult Jedi coming back after the Empire is run by technocrats or aristocrats and a Sith/dark sider power behind the throne of a weak Emperor is compelling to me.

I think that we should create a nother thread. This new thread would be about the Prequel Trilogy. I say new thread only because it would allow others to concern themselves with the post-Endor era without having to criss-cross posts.

On the New Jedi Order topic, I would say that would also be placed in its own thread. I say that because the New Jedi Order is a galaxy-wide changing event and seems to warrant its own specialized discussion. I would also like to read your thoughts on what the your thinking for making this time period be like.

The Second Empire is of course going into the Second Empire thread that already exists.

By the way, Primus, after thinking it over. Your idea about a Sith being the power behind the throne of a weak figurehead ruler is a pretty good and entertaining one. It means that the Empire itself is not bad but the people are are currently in charge that are bad. So, yeah, that works.

I'm actually the same, as your points relate to Galvatron. I think they are nifty, useful and could be quite entertaining if developmed further. But I do not think that the PT era is for that. On the otherhand, I think they would be perfect for the Second Empire time in which the ideas that he has would make a lot of sense as their is no Palpatine.

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I know that this might not be the best way to go about doing things, but I gotta say that some points in the post-Endor EU holds my interest while others do not. Thrawn does, Dark Empire does, and the rise of the Pellaeon Empire (with the killing of the warlords and all that), also holds my interest. '

I figure that once we get the general sense of how the breakdown occurs after Endor in both the Imperial and galatic sense, as well as how the Rebellion arises to dominate, we can probably jump around.

I'm not sure what else I have left to contribute to this thread given the constraints. I can deal with ROTJ, but the rest? No thanks.