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The Vortex Empire wrote: Yes, but with Stingers and other such weapons, it is far easier to kill air support in MW2. Most of the time when I played MW1, helicopters could be expected to rack up 10+ kills before going down. In MW2, they're lucky if they get 2 or 3.

I found the RPG and machine guns in MW1 to be a far easier kill then a Stinger or Javelin because I can aim and shoot the thing instantly, not having to wait for a retarded lock on at a target 50 feet away. And no chopper flares, and no player control of the chopper guns to worry about and no absorbing multiple rocket hits. Furthermore in MW2 the enemy can put up multiple aircraft at once, which will very quickly turn into every player on your own team being spawn killed, especially if they are a bunch of morons which they are 80% of the time. The air support in MW2 is hardly less powerful, this is a completely absurd conclusion. The only thing that’s toned down is the airstrike, except they made up for that by having the Harrier start gunning down shit afterwards.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

The Vortex Empire wrote: Yes, but with Stingers and other such weapons, it is far easier to kill air support in MW2. Most of the time when I played MW1, helicopters could be expected to rack up 10+ kills before going down. In MW2, they're lucky if they get 2 or 3.

I found the RPG and machine guns in MW1 to be a far easier kill then a Stinger or Javelin because I can aim and shoot the thing instantly, not having to wait for a retarded lock on at a target 50 feet away. And no chopper flares, and no player control of the chopper guns to worry about and no absorbing multiple rocket hits. Furthermore in MW2 the enemy can put up multiple aircraft at once, which will very quickly turn into every player on your own team being spawn killed, especially if they are a bunch of morons which they are 80% of the time. The air support in MW2 is hardly less powerful, this is a completely absurd conclusion. The only thing that’s toned down is the airstrike, except they made up for that by having the Harrier start gunning down shit afterwards.

This. To say its been toned down is absurd. 80-90% of the time, the moment one player gets up to a chopper gunner, you're fucked and you've pretty much lost the game right there.

I think it's generally implied in the gameplay design that the middling killstreaks like attack chopper are only really there to get you maybe 1 or 2 more kills. It's the late kill streaks like AC-130 and Stealth Bomber that are supposed to let you do things like turn losing maps around. They still don't guarantee victory though. I've seen teams beat even after calling in two AC-130s, a Pave Low, and god knows how many Airstrikes/Harriers in a match. A lot of it just depends on how much the guys on your team give a shit about the other guys on your team.

CaptHawkeye wrote:I think it's generally implied in the gameplay design that the middling killstreaks like attack chopper are only really there to get you maybe 1 or 2 more kills. It's the late kill streaks like AC-130 and Stealth Bomber that are supposed to let you do things like turn losing maps around. They still don't guarantee victory though. I've seen teams beat even after calling in two AC-130s, a Pave Low, and god knows how many Airstrikes/Harriers in a match. A lot of it just depends on how much the guys on your team give a shit about the other guys on your team.

The problem is the most common Killstreak setup is Harrier/Chopper/Nuke. If you just get the seven kills, your Harrier pretty much guarantees four more for Chopper Gunner (unless of course the enemy team has one of the 10% of people who actuall carry a SAM on their non-Cold Blooded class), that almost guarantees a nuke on maps like Skidrow, Rust, or Terminal. The only time you were guaranteed to get a kill with an airstrike in MW was if you were playing Bog.

Guys who don't take cover when an obvious flying murder machine is coming do not make me feel pity. It's not like air assets aren't hard to hide from, or shoot down, in the game.

Harriers vary in reliability. I've seen them get 10+ kills sometimes, other times they got shot down the moment they show up.

CaptHawkeye wrote:It's the late kill streaks like AC-130 and Stealth Bomber that are supposed to let you do things like turn losing maps around.

It's been my experience that the teams where guys are able to amass those kinds of streaks tend to be winning anyhow. It's hard to NOT be winning if you have multiple team members pulling off 10+ streaks.

weemadando wrote:

CaptHawkeye wrote:It's the late kill streaks like AC-130 and Stealth Bomber that are supposed to let you do things like turn losing maps around.

It's been my experience that the teams where guys are able to amass those kinds of streaks tend to be winning anyhow. It's hard to NOT be winning if you have multiple team members pulling off 10+ streaks.

Stuff like this should have been obvious in playtesting. IMHO air support totally ruins the game for me as it is never as effective when I use it when compared to others. MW2 has driven me back to SOCOM.

Stark wrote:

Pulp Hero wrote:Hey, I never said it was better. MW2 has more problems than the Palin family, but the start of round grenade kills are indeed gone, which is a +1.

It's just sad that they had to fix it at all. Seriously, this was a problem in games in 2001. It was fixed. Why do developers never look at other games to see problems and solutions? Anyone who played a variety of 'tactical quake' games like CS etc should have seen it coming.

But IW aren't out to innovate.

It was amusing watching Bungie re-invent the wheel when they introduced dual wielding to Halo 2.

Oddly enough, one of the easiest ways to take out a chopper gunner is with the AT-4. You wait for it to get low and just pop the shot off without the lock on. No flares and they probably won't be able to move out of the way if you're close enough.

Also, the PP2000 with FMJs is hellishly awesome. I damn near got a 10/0 run with that thing alone and you can plaster schmucks from half way a crossed the map with that thing.

Tasoth wrote:Oddly enough, one of the easiest ways to take out a chopper gunner is with the AT-4. You wait for it to get low and just pop the shot off without the lock on. No flares and they probably won't be able to move out of the way if you're close enough.

Woah, I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip. I usually save my AT4 exclusively for ground kills and harriers, since it seems to suck so much at anti-air. Being able to one-shot chopper gunners makes it that much more useful.

I must admit to running around with a Stinger as my preferred second weapon for a number of reasons. There's the challenges for downing a chopper for one, and theres the sheer satisfaction of knocking down an enemy air assets when its only two seconds in. I'll even use them on UAV's sometimes.

When it comes to the secondaries, I've met practically all the throwing knife challenges which I had paired with my riot shield. Now i'm using the G18. I hadn't even bothered with this weapon till playing the Favela in single player and seeing what a lethal little weapon it is. A riot shield paired with a G18 in Wasteland can be a pretty nice combo.

I had to laugh at one of the add-ons for the P90....rapid fire, as if the P90 isn't a fast enough firing weapon on its own. I've been trying for all the various weapon challenges, and still find the M4 one of the better rifles. I just can't seem to get used to the FAMAS. I haven't tried the FAL yet, but remember liking the G3 in MW1.

I'll admit to liking the game, but there doesn't seem to be something thats quite the equivalent of something like "All Ghillied Up".

Jade Falcon wrote:I haven't tried the FAL yet, but remember liking the G3 in MW1.

If you liked the G3 you'll love the FAL. In MW the G3 does 30 points of damage (40 with stopping power) so it takes 3-4 shots to kill someone, the FN FAL does 35 and 55 with stopping power, 2-3 shots and they're dead.

Oh and anyone expecting to like the F2000, don't. If you want the worst gun ever, add an ACOG to it.

I think it's hilarious that the devs put in all sorts of scopes and sights for some guns, which are completely useless because the camera jerks about uncontrollably when firing auto. This would be ok if their were firing mod....oh right. Shit weapon balance? Check.

The one thing on the PC version that I do vastly prefer to MW1, while maybe not an important thing is the fact that your multiplayer scores are kept on an external server. When playing MW1 I semi-frequently backed up my save data. If it had just been scores, it might not have mattered, but since the scores linked into your unlocks, that was different. I never had to use the back up, but if I hadn't bothered, sods law would meant that something nasty would have happened.

General Schatten wrote:

Jade Falcon wrote:I haven't tried the FAL yet, but remember liking the G3 in MW1.

If you liked the G3 you'll love the FAL. In MW the G3 does 30 points of damage (40 with stopping power) so it takes 3-4 shots to kill someone, the FN FAL does 35 and 55 with stopping power, 2-3 shots and they're dead.

Oh and anyone expecting to like the F2000, don't. If you want the worst gun ever, add an ACOG to it.

Try a WA-2000 with an ACOG. Its like a FAL but does more damage and just feels so damn solid to shoot.

Did they change the thing where some sniper rifles are actually less de facto accurate when using the ACOG? And I don't mean the usual zoom-for-peripheral vision trade off.

DOUCHE MODE: Riot Shield, Dual 1887s w/bling and FMJ, lightweight and ninja, blast shield and flashbangs.

Edward Yee wrote:Did they change the thing where some sniper rifles are actually less de facto accurate when using the ACOG? And I don't mean the usual zoom-for-peripheral vision trade off.

They should be less accurate then conventional scopes, if any level of reality was present in the game at all. ACOG is about being able to take quicker shots, not accuracy. This I see no problem with.

How the fuck does one dual-wield lever-action shotguns?

Ryan Thunder wrote:How the fuck does one dual-wield lever-action shotguns?

I'd like to know how one can dual wield and reload P90's.

Ryan Thunder wrote:How the fuck does one dual-wield lever-action shotguns?

At this point they should just make it possible to dual-wield M249s, M4s, or hell even dual RPGs. The akimbo weapons are stupid looking (especially the 3rd person prespective on dual wielding shotguns), and far more overpowered than they should be. They should be ridiculously inaccurate to such a degree that the only time you would want to use it is if you are in very tight quarters. I hate the akimbo weapons, and I hate tube whores.

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:How the fuck does one dual-wield lever-action shotguns?

At this point they should just make it possible to dual-wield M249s, M4s, or hell even dual RPGs. The akimbo weapons are stupid looking (especially the 3rd person prespective on dual wielding shotguns), and far more overpowered than they should be. They should be ridiculously inaccurate to such a degree that the only time you would want to use it is if you are in very tight quarters. I hate the akimbo weapons, and I hate tube whores.

And here I thought you could only have pistols and small SMGs akimbo... I didn't rent it for long enough to get to the point where you could do that with anything else...

Ryan Thunder wrote:How the fuck does one dual-wield lever-action shotguns?

That’s slightly more realistic then some of the other combos. I mean at least theoretically you could work the action the same way the TERMINATOR does in T2 by spinning it around on each hand. Still really retarded though.

The javelin confuses the hell out of me. Sometimes, when fired at a harrier/helo, it will not illicit flares from it and take it down the first shot. Other times, it will cause flares to pop and completely miss. It does shoot down AC-130s though.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:How the fuck does one dual-wield lever-action shotguns?

That’s slightly more realistic then some of the other combos. I mean at least theoretically you could work the action the same way the TERMINATOR does in T2 by spinning it around on each hand. Still really retarded though.

I still get a kick out of the idea that one could fire a sawn off shotgun without dislocating their wrist. This game is just made of Hollywood's Armory.