StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Cal Wright wrote:These are revelations from the novel as I read it. Hardcover of course.

As a note, some of this stuff might have previously appeared in the EU, but is now high tier cannon so it bears mentioning.

-snip

pg349
The clones follow orders. Withough malic, hatred or ill will the Jedi do not perceive thier intent. This coupled with the darkness clouding the Force.

This works quite well alongside the NJO, where in the early stages, the Jedi were heavily handicapped by the fact that they couldn't sense the intent of their Vong opponents. Which shows that the Jedi have a dangerous, and recurring tendancy to be overly reliant on sensing hostile intents of individuals.

Mange the Swede wrote:

Petrosjko wrote:Another one that occurred to me recently-

Jedi obviously are big on going down with their ships. No Jedi that we've seen yet wears any kind of a flight suit, and obviously could not eject from their craft outside of the atmosphere as a result.

Good observation... Well, an ordinary person could stay conscious for about 10 seconds in a complete vacuum, less if there's a rapid decompression. Perhaps the Jedi has some kind of survival technique.

The "Healing Hibernation" that has appeared in a few EU books?

IIRC, Grievous' feet crumpled the outer hull plating of his flagship. I wasn't sure what to make of it -- either he has exceptionally strong magnets for feet, or in-hull reinforcement fields were down, or a combination of those, or maybe I'm just grasping at straws.

I got the impression his feet landed on an access panel of some sort.

For what it's worth, in the Clone Wars cartoon a jedi was able to cut through the bridge hull of another Providence-class ship with just a lightsaber, so it could just be the hull there is particularly thin and weak.

For what it's worth, in the Clone Wars cartoon a jedi was able to cut through the bridge hull of another Providence-class ship with just a lightsaber, so it could just be the hull there is particularly thin and weak.

That strikes me as very odd, considering the Lucrehulk's bridge blast doors were able to hold of a lightsaber for a considerable amount of time. Why would the actual hull plate be weaker?

An observation on Palpatine's lightsaber style- he appears to be fond of stabbing attacks, and pointing his saber right at his opponent. He is very agile, given his apparent age.

I wonder if he was using the Dark Side to cloud the perceptions of the Jedi who fought him at his office. The first three were cut down very easily.

Sothis wrote:An observation on Palpatine's lightsaber style- he appears to be fond of stabbing attacks, and pointing his saber right at his opponent. He is very agile, given his apparent age.

Yes I noticed this as well. During his initial attack this was how he killed Agen Kolar. Then all his en guard positions seem to say "I'm gonna stab you good."

From my third viewing: The Battle Droid blasters we see in TPM and AOTC are also full-auto capable- we see one battle droid fire a rapid stream of shots at Obi-Wan as he rides past it on Boga (right before the BD is destroyed, the BD is firing from an elevated balcony).

This leaves open the question of why ordinary BDs don't fire on full auto at Jedi all the time?

Lord of the Farce wrote:The "Healing Hibernation" that has appeared in a few EU books?

I don't think so - while it can cut down greatly on the amount of oxygen and nutrients a Jedi needs on long trips, you still need to have an atmosphere present (Thrawn trilogy).

Maybe the reason they don't bother with pressure suits is the same reason they don't bother with armor for 99% of the time they're in combat (whatever that is, to be honest).

How's that so big? Maybe he parked his fleet a few seconds away from the planet, just outside of the range of any sensors the base had. Or are you bringing this up with the 100 (IIRC) lightyear sensor range in mind?

I believe they were still in orbit around Coruscant.

Sothis wrote:An observation on Palpatine's lightsaber style- he appears to be fond of stabbing attacks, and pointing his saber right at his opponent. He is very agile, given his apparent age.

I wonder if he was using the Dark Side to cloud the perceptions of the Jedi who fought him at his office. The first three were cut down very easily.

very easily as in didn't even try to block and got stabbed? That fight was just crap.

SpaceTeddyBear wrote:

I believe they were still in orbit around Coruscant.

The novelisation indicates that the Republic forces were on the planet itself. It seems Obi-Wan jumped to the system beforehand to have a head start in searching for Grievous, to allow the clones time to prepare and as a diversion for when the clones did attack.

The novelisation indicates that the Republic forces were on the planet itself. It seems Obi-Wan jumped to the system beforehand to have a head start in searching for Grievous, to allow the clones time to prepare and as a diversion for when the clones did attack.

Hmmm? They weren't on the planet at the same time Obi-Wan was, his R4 unit called them. His fleet jumped from Coruscant, as is seen when he departs the Vigilance in the film.

Yeah, but the novelisation goes into greater detail that they were to be in system waiting to pounce.

Pure Sabacc wrote:

For what it's worth, in the Clone Wars cartoon a jedi was able to cut through the bridge hull of another Providence-class ship with just a lightsaber, so it could just be the hull there is particularly thin and weak.

That strikes me as very odd, considering the Lucrehulk's bridge blast doors were able to hold of a lightsaber for a considerable amount of time. Why would the actual hull plate be weaker?

You're kidding, right? Qui-Gon's lightsaber plunged straight through the blast door effortlessly!

Connor MacLeod wrote:You're kidding, right? Qui-Gon's lightsaber plunged straight through the blast door effortlessly!

Yes, but since a lightsaber blade makes thin cuts, plunging through the door would mean actually breaking the bonds in only a tiny volume of material.
Cutting through the door required affecting a larger volume of material , and it's apparent that it took some effort for Qui-Gon and his lightsaber to accomplish this task.
Recall that the energy output of a lightsaber is limited.

Regardless, if it takes X amount of time to cut through a blast door, it doesn't make sense that it only takes a fraction of X to cut through the ship's hull. It's surprising that Saesee Tiin (sp?) cut so quickly through the hull of the ship that they hijacked in the Clone Wars series.

Crazedwrath wrote:very easily as in didn't even try to block and got stabbed? That fight was just crap.

Quite right. Agen Kolar just stood there and took it.

Let's review the sequence of selected events (correct any errors I make, please):
1) The Jedi Masters ignite their lightsabers and are presumably as ready as they'll ever be.
2) Sidious drops his lightsaber into his hand.
3) Sidious ignites his lightsaber.
4) Sidious jumps over his desk, spiralling through the air and going "RAAWRR!", to wake up any Jedi Masters just in case they were napping.
5) Sidious runs up to the Jedi.
6) Sidious draws his lightsaber back in what is obviously a wind-up for a stab.
7) Sidious stabs Agen Kolar, who didn't parry or evade because he was taken by surprise (!!!).
8 ) Cyke goes "WTF?" in the theatre.

I wonder if the choreography was done with the intention of showing that Sidious had clouded the minds of Mace's two meatshield Masters, or if they were just taken aback by his whipping out a lightsaber, even though they knew he was a Sith Lord.

That fight blew, and the Windu-Palpatine fight wasn't much better. I was expecting to see Palpatine go whirlwind Dark Side give-into-your-hatred on their asses.

HemlockGrey wrote:That fight blew, and the Windu-Palpatine fight wasn't much better. I was expecting to see Palpatine go whirlwind Dark Side give-into-your-hatred on their asses.

Yes, I expected more hissing and snarling.

Can it be, that Mace "forgot" to tell his fellow Jedi about Palpatine being a Sith? Either because he was shocked by Anakin's revealation or because he didn't trust him?

Palpatine might also have slowed down their reflexes and the rest might be the surprise at the sight of somebody trying to offer resistance (wouldn't be the first time, see Geonosis).

On the Arrest Scene:

I personally think that the scene would have made much more sense if Windu and the Masters had not known Palpatine was a Sith (As it was somehow implied in the trailer).

Still, we could save face... I mean.... argue... that Palpatine was indeed clouding the jedi senses and, as such, got them off guard. Remeber QuiGon's phrase "He sees things before they happen, that's why he seems to have such good reflexes". Without this short term precognition, the average Jedi just sits there like a headlamp-staring kitten. Appart from his fabled swordmanship, maybe Windu survived this first onslaught on the fact that the others got killed first.

And, let's not forget Jedi Arrogance (tm)! The Masters, Windu included, were probably thinking: "Ha! No way this old geezer is the Sith Lor.... WOAH!"

Also it's cannon that jedi\sith are ranked 1-10 with the difference between each rank increasing by an order of magnitude:

Sidious is level 9.x, Mace 9, Obi-Wan\Anakin8,
so it's probable that the Jedi masters were around level 7, making them far weaker than palpatine.

Petrosjko wrote:Another one that occurred to me recently-

Jedi obviously are big on going down with their ships. No Jedi that we've seen yet wears any kind of a flight suit, and obviously could not eject from their craft outside of the atmosphere as a result.

It was mentioned that in the AotC ICS or Visual Dictionary(forgot which), that most Jedi simply didn't bother with changing into and/or out of flight suits.

Also on the arrest scene, a theory that I have no idea whether the novelisation contradicts, since I haven't had a chance to read it yet:

What if Palpy had used a far more powerful version of the "Force Wall" skill than the Jedi are accustomed to, and it simply froze the Jedi Masters in place both from the direct effects of the ability, and utter disbelief that the "politician" could actually lock up their movement so thoroughly, which leaves them unable to fight off the effects in time?

Hrm.. that's a good point you raise, Lord of the Force.

Whether I'm a Jedi or not, if a politican bumrushed me I think I'd freeze in fear. Politicians are scary.

Lord of the Farce wrote:Also on the arrest scene, a theory that I have no idea whether the novelisation contradicts, since I haven't had a chance to read it yet:

What if Palpy had used a far more powerful version of the "Force Wall" skill than the Jedi are accustomed to, and it simply froze the Jedi Masters in place both from the direct effects of the ability, and utter disbelief that the "politician" could actually lock up their movement so thoroughly, which leaves them unable to fight off the effects in time?

While the first part is possible, by this time the Jedi know that Palps is a Sith Lord.