Kojiro wrote:What you don't realise is that the Vorlons and the Shadows had an agreement. The Vorlons gave the Shadows a system, complete with populace and newly built ancient shipyard. The Ancients were to cooperate to teach the Brakiri a lesson. The Shadows entered into an alliance with the Brakiri however, and tried to hide the return of their home planets and populace from the Vorlons. The Vorlons allowed a suitable time for their allies to reveal this information and share their plans, but the Shadows chose instead to keep it secret. Keeping secrets from both sides, playing one against the other. Vorlons don't take kindly to being betrayed, which was what they suspected the Shadows would always do. They did however learn much about the Shadow's status during this time, such as their control of the League.
You moved a fleet to share the same square as Brad's fleet to gank their warp point defense. Are you saying you're not aware of this? The Brakiri baseships the League had would've slaughtered anything Vorlon had they controlled the jump gate. Instead you shared the jump gate, and without warning attacked, taking advantage of SE:IV's stupid combat system where if two allies shared the same point the battle counts as a normal fight instead of a chokepoint. I was worried this would happen to the Corporate Sector, or to EA. Do you know how powerful your ships are? In open space when it's not a chokepoint you can kill anything ten to one, twenty to one, a hundred to one if they don't have sufficient range. You can hit other ships at 19 range and they cannot hit back.
You must realise that *I* (and thus the Vorlons) had no idea you controlled Yolu prime. As far as we were concerned it was a League world, and thus in need of the same attention as the rest. I just figured it was gifted to you instead of the Centauri. It was more Corporate space expanding into our theater rather than us extending ours. It'd suck if the whole fear of an invasion was due to nothing more than our *assumption* that Yolu Prime was part of the League.
Yolu Prime was part of the League until the League was disbanded, then they reverted to Corporate. Yolu Prime was taken over by Marxis early on and is definitely within our sphere of influence.
The Yolu hated Marxis's reign, and that kind of extends to the new CS too, but everybody else is worse. Yolu Prime is the CS's East Germany and only joined the League after Marxis left and the CS went to pieces. There was a lot of wrangling between the EA and CS over Nocalo early on.
Of course there is one way to settle things. Take all the League worlds for yourself. You know you want to
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I wouldn't say no but the main cause of action was a reprisal against the Shadows and to cripple their ability to make war. This has effectively been done.
That's what you think. The Shadows and Brakiri will be back and there will be a reckoning. I know you noticed the 150 HBS. Why only 150? Because those are the worst ships he has, obsolete.
Of course, but this isn't a proper narrative. There's no 'balance' to show the other side, and as demonstrated by Trogs, it's created the illusion of something happening that simply isn't. There has been, for example, no scene depicting the counter view, the adviser pointing out 'hey they've limited their actions to League space' or 'we've given them no reason to attack us'.
That is not my responsibility. What you don't realize is that people are RPing consistent with their point of view. What you did by putting one hundred ships one jump away from Corporate and EA space was the equivalent of the Warsaw Pact mobilizing 100 divisions and pushing them up to the border. Something did happen, something that required action, at the very least recoding jump gates if we were to ensure the same thing didn't happen to the EA and CS as did happen to the League. Not to mention the Vorlons sent special forces into Corporate space to kill/kidnap the Brakiri delegation to the CS. Lots did happen and to any outside observer it looks like groundwork for an invasion.
If the narrative is unbalanced you can RP the Vorlons talking to the Minbari, Lyta voicing doubts to her Vorlon masters about such a wide military deployment, Lyta talking with O'Hare, whatever. I'm not responsible for the Vorlon point of view.
I'm not fond of that. There's no way to come through a gate firing, nor is there any way to defend a warp point at range. I loathe the idea of building a bunch of gate defense ships with range 8 guns, even if the do 3k-4k damage. The devil of not being able to set up your fleet appropriately.
The Vorlon's advantage (and the Centauri's and the Minbari's and the Shadows and the EA LMSB) is their range. You did not know this? The only way to fix it would be to redo the whole modification from the ground up. You want to come through a gate firing, get SE:V.
You want to defend a gate from range, do the same thing you did with Brad. Share the same gate with the Minbari. When two allies share a gate in SE:IV, it glitches and considers the battle as a normal battle instead of a choke point defense. It's how the Vorlons beat the League Black Sabbath.
The annoying thing is that I'd rather not have glassed those planets. It's something I'm stuck with, but then so should the Brakiri be (who nuked a planet as well up north). I can fully appreciate someone being twitchy about such a fleet in orbit however.
Everybody saw it, it was a big deal M6 with G'kar and the Minbari nearly going to war over it. The Brakiri are isolationist and have locked down their borders. Yes you're stuck with it, but so is the CS with Marxis's former actions.
To some extent, but it's more that the Vorlons *know* there were Shadows there. They gave us ships and the Ambassadorial Flyer even visited there. The Vorlons have absolutely not reason whatsoever to believe the Shadow presence is gone, and it would be naive of them to do so. Realistically there would almost certainly be some residual presence, from buried ships to plague dispensers. Possibly even planet destroying technology, like they left at Zha'ha'dum. Simply declaring 'they're all gone' wouldn't convince anyone any sort of resistance was gone, let alone booby trap. Certainly not invisible, 'stealth is out thing ' subtle infiltrator resistance/booby traps. It would be grossly out of character if, with Londo down on the planet screaming 'they're gone, we're clean!' for the Vorlons to just go 'oh, ok, cool, we'll see you round'.
And I'd love to go take out the Shadows, but those pesky Brakiri would inevitably get in the way.
The Corporates are not the Vorlons. The Centauri are not the Vorlons. The Earth Alliance are not the Vorlons. The Dilgar are not the Vorlons. When you say "it shouldn't convince anybody", what you are doing is telling other people OOC about a problem you should be dealing with IC. Maybe you don't like being outmaneuvered IC, but coming out OOC and saying "don't believe that, X, Y, Z" is not right. Fair and balanced is not my responsibility.
I don't understand the problem. The Vorlons are so convinced the League worlds have Shadow technology, take them. Either that or don't take them and just fly around and piss people off. Why do you have to bring it up OOC? People can RP how they want. If you want an option between take them out or piss people off, you can write one or two RP's to clear the air with Minbari talking to the Vorlons or Lyta talking to the Minbari (since the Vorlons are annoying to RP). I know the Vorlons are annoying to RP, but if their actions are overtly hostile and you're getting pissed nobody is "getting" them well, that's just the shit of it isn't it.
As for the Brakiri getting in your way, they can't at least until they get their jump gate defenses up. Do you know how powerful your ships are? In open space the Brakiri and all other YR are your bitches, if you fire from maximum range and design your ships properly. YR can only face off against Vorlons when armed with Centauri/Minbari weapons, or holding a jump gate. But you can do whatever you want. I'm just worried there will be a shitstorm when Brad and Art go for the throat and you come back and say "I held back so you should too..." if I were you I wouldn't hold back, I would attack, try and exterminate the Shadows. If you don't, that's fine, but please don't come back later and ask Brad and Art to pull their punches is all I'm saying.
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It's pretty hilarious that the Vorlons are fifty billion times more duplicitous than the Shadows in this game.