StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Pelranius wrote:Is there any way to make plants grow in Heaven (since there are animals in Hell, it stands to reason that they can also grow stuff there too. Those demon peons had to be growing something. And I assume that what you can do in Hell can be reasonably done in Heaven)? I imagine that Michael Lan (now his name sounds like the moniker of a internet cafe mascot) would be smart enough to know how to make heroin and such.

I wouldn't be surprised if he knew how to grow his own stuff. He doesn't strike me as the stupid sort to rely entirely on those uppity, missile-chucking humans to supply him with his drugs forever, and since most drugs can actually be grown easily in self-contained environments, Michael Lan could easily set up his own private little farms inside Heaven.

Really, all Michael has to do is take notes from the Colombians and other modern criminal cartels, which would have been distressingly easy pre-Message, and he's set.

What you're seeing in Part 5 is "How to start a cult-101". Create an environment where illegal or seriously frowned-upon but pleasurable activities are available, get the members used to having those behaviors (or commodities) available on demand, the restrict the availability so the members have to come to the leader for the supply. Make each member think they are receiving special favors from the leader when in fact they are being brought under his control by being made dependent on him. Create an atmosphere where those outside the magic circle are regarded as enemies who would take the goodies away if they could. Successful corporate cultures and cults are much closer than most people would like to think.

Michael is setting up and consolidating a cult using sex (severely restricted under the Yahweh orthodoxy), other forms of "vice" (drink, drugs, gambling etc) and the presence of humans who shouldn't be there to confer exclusivity. How he plans to use his cult, well, you'll see.

Stuart wrote: Michael is setting up and consolidating a cult using sex (severely restricted under the Yahweh orthodoxy),

Interesting. I seem to remember there being hints in Armaggeddon that the angels' sex lives were relatively limited, which was why they had a tendency to sneak off to Earth to consort with humans.

Kind of amusing that Paradise of all places is where Free Love is heavily restricted. Is there a reason Yaweh prefers his people to perpeptually suffer blue balls?

Peptuck wrote:

Stuart wrote: Michael is setting up and consolidating a cult using sex (severely restricted under the Yahweh orthodoxy),

Interesting. I seem to remember there being hints in Armaggeddon that the angels' sex lives were relatively limited, which was why they had a tendency to sneak off to Earth to consort with humans.

Kind of amusing that Paradise of all places is where Free Love is heavily restricted. Is there a reason Yaweh prefers his people to perpeptually suffer blue balls?

Because if people can't have sex they find an alternative outlet... namely violence.

Nice to see things get deeper. I'm guessing Micheal plans on using his cult to seize power.

Peptuck wrote: Kind of amusing that Paradise of all places is where Free Love is heavily restricted. Is there a reason Yaweh prefers his people to perpeptually suffer blue balls?

I suspect that Yahweh just doesn't like women, but he also hates homosexuality, so the female angels (whom I note we didn't even see at all in the first book) are probably kept under tight watch and control and sex is limited to just enough to keep the male angels from going insane. As for the dead humans...there are probably a lot of virgin males among them.

I finally have commented on your new work despite having seen it on the first day . So yeah, as always I have loved your work... And I like how Michael is going to coup....

Y'know, Micheal is fast becoming one of my favorite characters. That whole "get baked with Jesus" part was hilarious in Armageddon, but his sneaky bastardy here sells it. As is the implication that Yahweh is seriously, seriously sexually repressed.

On the other hand, isn't Michael-lan also violating one of the rules of being a drug dealer? (Read: Do not partake in your own product.)

I don't think that really applies to pot, and we haven't heard of him doing anything else.

Yahya is not a name we might realistically have, even in Muslim populations of Russia.

Ilya Muromets wrote:Y'know, Micheal is fast becoming one of my favorite characters. That whole "get baked with Jesus" part was hilarious in Armageddon, but his sneaky bastardy here sells it. As is the implication that Yahweh is seriously, seriously sexually repressed.

I have to agree. My first girlfriend worked at a kink club in Germany back in the early 80's, and when I'd drop by after hours to pick her up, I'd see men of power and privilege, men who in public ruled with an iron grip... tied up and beaten. And loving every minute of it. People whose faces I recognized. People who are now in history books.

SERIOUSLY scary.

From both what we know of the Bible, and from what we've learned in this story, Yahweh as depicted here is a sad and sick control freak with a desperate need for massive amounts of ego-boosting. He's the biggest addict in heaven - he's just addicted to seeing people grovel before him, making him feel both in control of the situation AND that he's just as important as he feels he needs to be.

Killing him would be a mercy killing.

Ed.

Pelranius wrote:Is there any way to make plants grow in Heaven (since there are animals in Hell, it stands to reason that they can also grow stuff there too. Those demon peons had to be growing something. And I assume that what you can do in Hell can be reasonably done in Heaven)? I imagine that Michael Lan (now his name sounds like the moniker of a internet cafe mascot) would be smart enough to know how to make heroin and such.

Can you imagine Mike with his own private little greenhouse (carefully hidden, of course!), complete with grow-lights, hydroponic drip feed system, and lots and LOTS of the best Acapulco Gold and Maui Wowee?

Hehehehehe....

Ed.

"We're not gonna take it, we're not gonna take it any more!"
-- Twisted Sister to Yahweh, in concert...

Ed, you would be the one to bring up specific names.....
*snickers*

I'm curious as to what might happen if Michael-Lan pushes one of his customers once too far, and they descend to Earth to get their Fix, and get caught. The repercussions from that could be potentially staggering, especially as you've got an Angel, likely a high ranking one, all but begging for their stuff.

"That's right Sachiel, tell us how many guards are on the other side, and we'll give you more. Yes? Ah now doesn't that feel better? But you know, you've been awfully helpful with us, so we were wondering if you'd like some more. Like possibly one free fix a week from us, no charge. Just let us know about what's on the other side of the Heavengate. That's it! Just talk about home, and you'll get your fix."

Never underestimate the powers of persuasion that running a bag of cocaine under the nose of a desperate addict can give a person. They'll tell you thinks willingly, and without lying, as they're too addled TO lie (or at least do it well), that you'd never hear even from the most brutal tortures.

barricade wrote:Ed, you would be the one to bring up specific names.....
*snickers*

I'm curious as to what might happen if Michael-Lan pushes one of his customers once too far, and they descend to Earth to get their Fix, and get caught. The repercussions from that could be potentially staggering, especially as you've got an Angel, likely a high ranking one, all but begging for their stuff.

"That's right Sachiel, tell us how many guards are on the other side, and we'll give you more. Yes? Ah now doesn't that feel better? But you know, you've been awfully helpful with us, so we were wondering if you'd like some more. Like possibly one free fix a week from us, no charge. Just let us know about what's on the other side of the Heavengate. That's it! Just talk about home, and you'll get your fix."

Never underestimate the powers of persuasion that running a bag of cocaine under the nose of a desperate addict can give a person. They'll tell you thinks willingly, and without lying, as they're too addled TO lie (or at least do it well), that you'd never hear even from the most brutal tortures.

The wonders of heaven pail in comparison to Earth's red light districts. I don't care how much effort Micheal put into the club- he is still one man and he has to hide it from someone with delusions of omnipotence.

Not to mention, with one angel we can make a portal...

barricade wrote:Ed, you would be the one to bring up specific names.....
*snickers*

I'm curious as to what might happen if Michael-Lan pushes one of his customers once too far, and they descend to Earth to get their Fix, and get caught. The repercussions from that could be potentially staggering, especially as you've got an Angel, likely a high ranking one, all but begging for their stuff.

"That's right Sachiel, tell us how many guards are on the other side, and we'll give you more. Yes? Ah now doesn't that feel better? But you know, you've been awfully helpful with us, so we were wondering if you'd like some more. Like possibly one free fix a week from us, no charge. Just let us know about what's on the other side of the Heavengate. That's it! Just talk about home, and you'll get your fix."

Never underestimate the powers of persuasion that running a bag of cocaine under the nose of a desperate addict can give a person. They'll tell you thinks willingly, and without lying, as they're too addled TO lie (or at least do it well), that you'd never hear even from the most brutal tortures.

That'd actually be a good way for the whole situation to blow up in Michael's face, although he's probably taking steps to reduce that. He's got his own personal stash, and as Stuart mentioned, part of creating a cult is creating fear of outsiders (and that probably includes Earth humans as well). Of course, how strong that matters if one of the angels is just dying to get another shot of blow is something that should be interesting to explore.

Soon, it would become a loathsome and malignant sore on the people who had the mark of the beast.

Plague, I guess. Does that mean that Michael's not as aware of the human world and its medical sciences as he's thinks he is (since plague can be treated with antibiotics)? Or is it some nasty variety that he's been cooking up in heaven? The angel is described as pouring out the Bowls of Wrath to spread the infection, and plague (at least Bubonic Plague) is usually spread by fleas, frequently via rats.

Of course, that doesn't touch into issues of actually getting the antibiotics to the infected areas that need them on Earth, so a lot of people could die in the process.

Samuel wrote:The wonders of heaven pail in comparison to Earth's red light districts. I don't care how much effort Micheal put into the club- he is still one man and he has to hide it from someone with delusions of omnipotence.

Not to mention, with one angel we can make a portal...

Which is probably why Las Vegas was specifically mentioned by Micheal some chapters back - he's probably green with envy (or at least, as green as an angel can get) whenever he thinks of the fact that no matter how hard he tries, anything he builds "up" there is but a pale shadow of the red light party-towns on Earth.

I *know*. Trust me, the kink scene in Europe could get pretty extreme at times, and that was nearly 30 years ago for me. I don't EVEN want to think about what it must be like today...

Hmm... wonder what would happen if Micheal slipped some inhalants into Yahweh's incense. Some strong hallucinogenics, perhaps?

Ed.

Guardsman Bass wrote: Plague, I guess. Does that mean that Michael's not as aware of the human world and its medical sciences as he's thinks he is (since plague can be treated with antibiotics)? Or is it some nasty variety that he's been cooking up in heaven? The angel is described as pouring out the Bowls of Wrath to spread the infection, and plague (at least Bubonic Plague) is usually spread by fleas, frequently via rats.

Of course, that doesn't touch into issues of actually getting the antibiotics to the infected areas that need them on Earth, so a lot of people could die in the process.

It could also mean that Michael simply used an opportunity to kill off his rivals and prepares some kind of collaboration effort. A middle ground to that would involve bleeding both sides dry.

One thing i was wondering after reading, since Mikey has been going about earth for some time i am only left wondering if, what and how much have the Angels brought to heaven besides drugs, booze and rock and roll? Also, i am getting the impression that Heaven is much smaller than hell and entirely urban.

Zor

Zor wrote:Also, i am getting the impression that Heaven is much smaller than hell and entirely urban.

Zor

Entirely urban? I don't know about others, but descriptions from the Bible tended to give me the image of a Fertile Crescent city-state - a walled city surrounded by fertile lands that fed the city, along with a river or two, with Yahweh pimping the city up using gold, gems, and semi-precious stone to give it a light and shining image to impress people, as opposed to Satan's "Ooo, lookie, I can out-grim Conan the barbarian with my dark citadel of solid obsidian..."

But that's just my take on things.

Ed.

"Konya wa Hurricane"

Zor wrote:One thing i was wondering after reading, since Mikey has been going about earth for some time i am only left wondering if, what and how much have the Angels brought to heaven besides drugs, booze and rock and roll? Also, i am getting the impression that Heaven is much smaller than hell and entirely urban.

Zor

Its probably similar in layout in that it's a broad plain with habitation in the center, though instead of a calderra it is a great walled city.

From what I understand, the Eternal City would also be the size of a medium-ish state, given that it's supposed to be about as far in each of it's measurements (Including straight up) as Isreal is long north/south. That's coursant, right there, folks. I can just IMAGINE the operational headaches there. Not to mention I could think of several potential counters for the armored warfare that the US and allies so dearly love. Remember, the best weapon in the world is merely a rock.

Dropped from orbit.

The trouble is that the cosmology of heaven and hell preclude the existence of a space in which to orbit.

Excellent stuff, Stuart, I've been quiet, but I've been watching.

There's also the problem that getting an orbiting rock to hit the ground takes almost as much energy as it'll release when it hits.. well, maybe not nearly that (I haven't run the math), but de-orbiting it isn't trivial.

Heaven might make things easier. Depending on the real geometry, there might be some sort of lagrange point up there from which you could just gently push a rock towards the ground (meaning "in any direction"), and have it hit hard.

Guardsman Bass wrote:
Plague, I guess. Does that mean that Michael's not as aware of the human world and its medical sciences as he's thinks he is (since plague can be treated with antibiotics)? Or is it some nasty variety that he's been cooking up in heaven? The angel is described as pouring out the Bowls of Wrath to spread the infection, and plague (at least Bubonic Plague) is usually spread by fleas, frequently via rats.

Of course, that doesn't touch into issues of actually getting the antibiotics to the infected areas that need them on Earth, so a lot of people could die in the process.

Considering how much Stuart loves himself some BW in his fiction, I imagine that the plague would be particularly grim.

It could be something like Smallpox, and we'd have *alot* of trouble.

It does rather sound like variola to me, but on the other hand, smallpox vaccines have been in producton recently and a lot of the human population would still be immune, and fortunately, I don't really think that Yahweh would be up to modifying the thing for increased lethality.

It just wouldn't occur to anyone in heaven.