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According to the Washington Post, Abu Faraj al-Libbi's arrest -- coincidentally, almost six years ago to the day (on May 2nd, 2005) -- by Pakistani special forces and his subsequent turn-over to the CIA was one of the incidents that led to finding out the courier's psuedonym, so now we've a basic timeline of "every two years" (psuedonym, real name, then location, then raid).

Incidentally, Sarevok, I should correct myself if a commenter on the Long War Journal is to be believed -- they're no longer called DEVGRU, the new name is classified.

Raj Ahten wrote:CNN is already speculating that pictures of Bin Laden's body might be released as early as today and that there is no consensus yet in the White House, but they are leaning towards releasing the photos.

I think any reluctance really comes down to how ugly they are - it is customary in the US that dead bodies, the moment of a death, or gruesome wounds are not shown on mass media (outside of fiction, which is allowed to be quite gory). It is much more taboo than in many other western nations from what I gather. Obviously, exceptions have been made in the past.

I expect the photos will be released, with many cautions on TV that "we're about to show something ugly" and other such warnings, appropriate to whatever media is being used.

Personally, I'd happily substitute post-mortem photos for an actual head on an actual pike - for one thing, they're less smelly. It gets the message across pretty much the same.

Ah, more information on the photos, from the CNN 1600 Report (1600 is a reference to the address of the White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in case someone doesn't know)

A Senior US Official tells CNN 10 hard drives, 5 computers and more than 100 storage devices which includes discs, DVDs and thumb drives were taken from the compound.

The senior us official also says the White House received 3 sets of photos yesterday. The photos included:

1. Photos of OBLs body at a hanger after he was brought back to Afghanistan. This is the most recognizable with a clear picture of his face. The picture is gruesome because he has a massive open head wound across both eyes. It’s very bloody and gory.

2. Photos from the burial at sea on the USS Carl Vinson. Photos of OBL before the shroud was put on and then wrapped in the shroud.

3. There are photos of the raid itself that include photos of the two dead brothers, one of OBLs dead son (adult adolescent, maybe approx 18 yrs old) and some of the inside scene of the compound.

The official says the challenge is that the picture that includes the most recognizable image of OBLs face – from the hangar in Afghanistan – is so gruesome and mangled its not appropriate for say the front page of the newspaper. On the other hand, this is the one that is most identifiable as him.

Yep, it's the level of gruesome.

The US government is apparently '99.9% sure it's Bin Laden they shot and killed.' What would happen if it was discovered it wasn't? Would it affect Obama's chances in the election?

Captain Spiro wrote:The US government is apparently '99.9% sure it's Bin Laden they shot and killed.' What would happen if it was discovered it wasn't? Would it affect Obama's chances in the election?

He'd look like an idiot and his chances of losing to anyone go up.

Steve wrote:

Captain Spiro wrote:The US government is apparently '99.9% sure it's Bin Laden they shot and killed.' What would happen if it was discovered it wasn't? Would it affect Obama's chances in the election?

He'd look like an idiot and his chances of losing to anyone go up.

Well that was straight to the point.

Hmm, so no photos of the body at the compound site, only at locations outside of Pakistan? Interesting, although I suppose that there's the possibility of taking a still from the live footage that Obama's team was watching during the actual raid.

(The commanders of USSOCOM and JSOC are also SEALs, and coincidentally, the latter was nominated two months ago to succeed the former in that office, with Maj. Gen. Joseph Votel [Army] appointed/approved as his successor in JSOC.)

Incidentally, according to this KSM did not mention the courier before the infamous "enhanced interrogation," but did mention him months later during a standard interrogation.

Edward Yee wrote:Hmm, so no photos of the body at the compound site, only at locations outside of Pakistan? Interesting, although I suppose that there's the possibility of taking a still from the live footage that Obama's team was watching during the actual raid.

Latest reports I've read, from White House press people, is that the SEALs were wearing helmet cams during the operation itself. The TV news has been showing video of the compound after the raid, which is to put it bluntly a mess complete with bullet holes and bloodstains. I'm sure that's available somewhere on the web, if anyone wants to make the effort to find it and link to it.

The reports about the still photos just listed them as "groups of photos received", nothing there about there NOT being other photos or video connected to the raid.

Just got on properly after a long weekend, and man...talk about news.

Of course, the War On Abstract concept continues, and it took a good long while and piles of corpses before this particular terrorist was killed, so I am of mixed feelings about this. On the other hand, well, it's one of those rare occasions where an unquestionably evil man was killed.

I also must say it was pretty classy to make the at-sea burial with all proper Islamic rites.

Frankly, I expected less from the US. Good decision, for all sorts of political and moral reasons.

For all his faults (and haven't we discussed them before on SD.net) Obama and his administration are different than Bush and his administration. I do believe that makes a difference. Bush always did a piss-poor job between distinguishing our enemies from people who coincidentally shared their ethnicity or religion. Obama, on the other hand, is the better politician - with his world-class poker face you can never be sure of what's under the surface, but he does have a better knack for the right word or gesture or action. Bush would be too likely to pander to the head-on-a-pike crowd. Islamic rites and burial at sea (as opposed to all the corpse desecration fantasies making the rounds) is the better course. It makes it clear the US hates the man and not the religion. That may not matter to the atheists on this forum but it certainly does matter to a lot of other people.

I hope they don't release any photos. I think the US has come across as very clinical, professional and almost classy during this whole process. Releasing gory images to the world will only a) satisfy the sickos who surf the web looking for sick stuff b) potentially alienate Pakistanis/Muslims in general [evil Americans shooting poor Muslim in the face in his house!].

Also, by not releasing the photos it makes it easier for the rest of us to easily identify the retarded-CT nutjobs in our midst. I identified one in the office today thanks to Osama's death!

Broomstick wrote:That may not matter to the atheists on this forum but it certainly does matter to a lot of other people.

Well, it does matter in the sense that doing something willfully spiteful is just a dick move, and I don't want to be the bad guys. Even if he had been smote by my godless robot army I'd have given him appropriate last rites because I'm not trying to take a dump on all the other people that share that faith, and I've done the worst I can really do to the guy by the time I've thrown a bullet through his face.

The reason to want religion gone is as a way to enrich people's lives, not as a way to demean people. So, to me, I felt it was very important we treat this worthless douche with an undeserved level of respect. We have to show that we aren't as deranged as our enemies and have to drag our defeated foes through the street. There's a time and a place for protests that border on the offensive, but this isn't one of them.

I'm undecided on how I feel about the photos, but I think it only speaks towards our worse natures to want them out. You'll never satisfy all the conspiracy theorists, but I'd really love if there weren't multiple tinfoil-hatters around every time this subject is brought up. We can probably release more information later. I'm just a fan of information in general. I hate having to 'hide' or censor stuff just because we think our insane terrorist enemies will get angry about it... but like I said, there's a time and a place.

I don't think we have a responsibility to care what murderous extremists think is fair or reasonable behavior. But I'd rather deal with the annoying prattle of Conspiracy Theorists than enrage the badguys into widowing some poor defense contractor right now.

ABC NewsRadio is reporting that apparently Bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot and killed.

Make of that what you will.

weemadando wrote:ABC NewsRadio is reporting that apparently Bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot and killed.

Make of that what you will.

That was alluded to earlier. We're still not getting a complete picture but it's good to see bits corroborated. I'm wondering if the 3 women were all shielding him or just one, and if he had participated earlier in the fighting or not. I'm guessing they all were trying to defend him and we shot through one to clip him in the head, injuring the other two in the process. This isn't the thread to discuss legality, but I do like it when information backs up other information. Do we have any confirmation about the role of the women?

Ding dong the witch is dead and all that, there's a sense of closure, but in the last decade Osama Bin Laden had become increasingly more of a irrelevance, he wasn't a video game boss, and seemed to essentially be the prisoner of crooked Pakistani intelligence officers, not that he wasn't really undeserving of a headshot. Burial at sea after formal funeral rites was a surprisingly decent gesture, but allegedly plugging a woman with M4 rounds to get at him, less so.

weemadando wrote:ABC NewsRadio is reporting that apparently Bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot and killed.

Make of that what you will.

From a Politico article about captured intelligence, emphasis mine:

Officials described the reaction of the special operators when they were told a number of weeks ago that they had been chosen to train for the mission.

“They were told, ‘We think we found Osama bin Laden, and your job is to kill him,’” an official recalled.

The SEALs started to cheer.

Nobody was interested in capturing this dude.

weemadando wrote:ABC NewsRadio is reporting that apparently Bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot and killed.

Who gives a fuck. We ASPLODED his goddamn head.

It appears that the helicopter that crashed and we blew up was not a standard MH-60 -- but a possibly low observable variant.

Regarding Osama's unarmed status, to be honest, I'm a little disappointed by the reports that he died hiding behind his wife or some such. I much prefered the mental image of him dying 'like a man' and shooting back with the AK he posed with so often.

Disappointed but not terribly surprised.

NecronLord wrote:Regarding Osama's unarmed status, to be honest, I'm a little disappointed by the reports that he died hiding behind his wife or some such. I much prefered the mental image of him dying 'like a man' and shooting back with the AK he posed with so often.

Disappointed but not terribly surprised.

Why? That would make his death that more along the lines of a hero, rather than that of a cowering rat fuck.

On Breitbart’s website, J. Michael Waller, suggests Obama take a number of extraordinary steps so he can “make sure [Osama] is dead.” Pictures are apparently not enough. Walker asserts that he needs to be able to “walk right up to bin Laden’s corpse and view it.” More:

The free world, particularly the United States, has a right to make sure Osama bin Laden is really dead. Every American has a right to walk right up to bin Laden’s corpse and view it. We are entitled to know for a fact that the witch is dead. No shroud for dignity’s sake, please – bin Laden’s naked, bullet-riddled corpse should be put on display in lower Manhattan for all the world to see. The entire body should be digitally scanned, inside and out – and made available for everyone to take his or her own picture.

Odd. I thought people of Breitbart's political strain were opposed to pornography?

EDIT: And I'm not talking about nudity, if that isn't clear.

Flagg wrote:Why? That would make his death that more along the lines of a hero, rather than that of a cowering rat fuck.

As I say, disappointed (in him) but unsurprised. The original information implied that he was 'killed in a gun battle' which would imply that he had been an active participant.

Money quote from Jim Geraghty at NRO:

This is the moment to cheer, to scream, to pump your fist, to break into that old bottle of your favorite beverage you’ve been saving for a special occasion.

Because the world is different this morning.

A key message has been beamed to every corner of the earth, sure to reach anyone who has ever committed terror against Americans, who seeks to do so again, or who is contemplating the act: No matter who you are, no matter how many followers you have, no matter how smart or careful you think you are, our guys can find you.

It’s just a matter of time.

If you kill our countrymen, they will look, and they will look, and they will look and they will never quit and we will never forget.

You will die in prison at Gitmo or you will die quickly from a covert-ops team’s bullets.

But one way or another, you will pay the price for harming our people.

The taliban have confirmed OBL's death.

Meanwhile; Link

GENEVA - The U.N.'s top human rights official says the global body wants details on the death of Osama bin Laden.

U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay says the raid on the al-Qaida leader's hideaway in Pakistan "was a complex operation, and it would be helpful if we knew the precise facts surrounding his killing."

Pillay has frequently stressed the importance of respecting international law during counter-terror operations.

But in a statement Tuesday she acknowledged that "taking him alive was always likely to be difficult."

Pillay says had bin Laden been captured he would likely have been charged with the most serious offences including crimes against humanity.

Apparently that chopper's odd, since a Blackhawk only has 4 tailrotor blades, and the picture shows 5 clearly.