StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I've done both sides and mechanics wise they're more or less identical
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Civil War Man wrote:In even more trainwreck news, after it was announced that the Legendary Cloak quest chain would become unavailable after Warlords launches, the devs reassured people that when 6.0.2 launched people would no longer be required to have the cloak in order to fight Ordos, even including it as a line item in the 6.0.2 patch notes. Then, when people without the cloak mentioned that they were unable to access the Ordos fight, they sent Rygarius to let everyone know that they changed their minds and didn't bother to tell anyone about it.

Hilarious that the post has been edited and that the WoW forum software quoting system is some kind of direct link. When the blue poster edited his message, it's basically gone for eternity (unless screencapped) unlike on this forum where quoting is basically a text dump.

I hear Ret Pallies are wrecking face with the pruning due to a lot of CC removal and the removal of their ramp-up time and reliance on burst windows. Ret viable in PvP? Can't last.

Oh, and most models in the armory look like they are either constipated or giving someone the stink-eye.

On a positive note, the new PvP flagging system seems to be working great. A a bunch of jackasses flagged and stood on me trying to force-flag. Even when I did fuck up (I'm a clumsy dolt) I just got a message along the lines of "You must flag for PvP to do that." which made my day.

It gets me that WoW takes so long to pick-up on modern gaming conventions. The idea of accidentally flagging is pretty oldhat. Rift had a system in place to avoid it years before. SWTOR went the WoW route and said system was abused constantly.

As I'm done with PvP, having my characters on a PvP realm is actually a part of my dread when I consider coming back to WoW for WoD. Early Cata questing was annoying as Hell as Horde would bait me into attacking them so the neutral guards would retaliate. Or they just run through my Consecration or wait for me to pull big and let themselves get hit by a Hammer of the Righteous. As a 4.0 prot pally in ICC gear, I was essentially immortal. Not even joking, I had 55K HP and my WoGs healed me for 50k and this was before Blizzard realized how broken vengeance was in PvP. Getting wailed on by 4-5 mobs while fighting another player was actually beneficial for me.

Anyways, it didn't stop me from being extremely annoyed to have other players poach my mobs while I was either killing neutral NPCs and losing shit-tons of rep or running to reset them. Either way, at least it did lead to one of my favorite PvP battles of all-time. Shadows Priests.... hehe.

Thankfully, by the time I bothered leveling my DK, most players had moved on. Then again, he was my PvP character at the time.

Worst pre-expansion patch, which is saying a lot considering this is Blizzard - shit that got flagged in Beta and PTR still in, horribly buggy and the pre expansion 'event'...

Laziest, most slapdash, ill conceived shit ever released - a few short quests and one absolutely shitty dungeon. The quests are simply fly, kill things, fly back, repeat - the dungeon is retard levels of easy even by blizzards standards of dungeon.

Minischoles wrote:Worst pre-expansion patch, which is saying a lot considering this is Blizzard - shit that got flagged in Beta and PTR still in, horribly buggy and the pre expansion 'event'...

Laziest, most slapdash, ill conceived shit ever released - a few short quests and one absolutely shitty dungeon. The quests are simply fly, kill things, fly back, repeat - the dungeon is retard levels of easy even by blizzards standards of dungeon.

Even worse than the MoP pre-launch event, consisting of 2 down leveled scenarios?

To be fair, most of what people (that I hang out with) seem to be talking about is the toybox and reagent tab. They seem to do the quests/UBRS then forget it's even there.

Darmalus wrote:

Minischoles wrote:Worst pre-expansion patch, which is saying a lot considering this is Blizzard - shit that got flagged in Beta and PTR still in, horribly buggy and the pre expansion 'event'...

Laziest, most slapdash, ill conceived shit ever released - a few short quests and one absolutely shitty dungeon. The quests are simply fly, kill things, fly back, repeat - the dungeon is retard levels of easy even by blizzards standards of dungeon.

Even worse than the MoP pre-launch event, consisting of 2 down leveled scenarios?

To be fair, most of what people (that I hang out with) seem to be talking about is the toybox and reagent tab. They seem to do the quests/UBRS then forget it's even there.

1 downleveled scenario as alliance couldn't play the horde version or vise verse and I didn't fly on purpose during a good chunk of the Blasted Lands quests, the problem really with Blasted Lands is that it's essentially part 1 of the lvl 90 intro draenor (it's part where we're told why we're going to draenor while part 2 is where we get there) and Blizz hasn't done enough to make it work on it's own.

while UBRS is easy to someone who has done heroic raids and challenge modes, it's certain harder they a MoP normal or heroic 5 man (granted that's not saying much) all this is tuned to fairly new lvl 90s (UBRS has ilvl limit of 510 which isn't that hard to get or at least wouldn't in pandaria was working on my realm)

Minischoles wrote:Worst pre-expansion patch, which is saying a lot considering this is Blizzard - shit that got flagged in Beta and PTR still in, horribly buggy and the pre expansion 'event'...

Laziest, most slapdash, ill conceived shit ever released - a few short quests and one absolutely shitty dungeon. The quests are simply fly, kill things, fly back, repeat - the dungeon is retard levels of easy even by blizzards standards of dungeon.

Actually the worst one was the TBC one. A single quest in Blasted Lands that rewarded a tabard that was a copy of one already given (except if you use it you do an emote!) and a recycled boss.

So. Some friends want me to get back into WoW for this. I'm considering it, but it hinges on one question.

Just how deep do the writers fistfuck the Alliance this time around? Is my faction still defined by being the hordes doormat?

It is difficult to say. From what I've heard talking to people in the Beta, outside of Ashran the Alliance and Horde largely stay out of each others' ways, but there also isn't much reason given as to why anyone other than the Orcs and Draenei would care what happens on the planet. Maybe Stormwind would care at the beginning, since the Iron Horde's coming through the Dark Portal, but the first thing the player does upon going through the portal is killing a bunch of Orcs and then shutting the portal off. But the players are not stranded, even if you ignore game mechanics like mage portals, because in the garrison quests Khadgar is explicitly shown opening portals to Stormwind and Orgrimmar. So even in the story the capitals are protected from anything the bad guys can do, but the players can move back and forth at their leisure.

When it comes down to it, the Iron Horde doesn't really seem like much of a threat. Yeah, they blow up Nethergarde, but Alliance strongholds are blown up all the time, and the Alliance has lost much bigger than Nethergarde in the past. It's basically fighting the exact same Horde as the one in the original Warcraft, only they don't have demon blood this time around.

On a side note, I mentioned Khadgar earlier and about how he can open portals to cities in both factions. This expansion he's the big NPC that both factions work with, even though he's also part of the ruling council of Dalaran. Kosak even said that Khadgar believes that Dalaran rejoining the Alliance was a mistake, and he thinks that the Kirin Tor should stay out of global politics. But he's not neutral guys! He's an Alliance hero, we swear!

Sounds like FFXIV endgame where the Evil Empire™ falls away so you can start tackling "real" issues.

Civil War Man wrote:On a side note, I mentioned Khadgar earlier and about how he can open portals to cities in both factions. This expansion he's the big NPC that both factions work with, even though he's also part of the ruling council of Dalaran. Kosak even said that Khadgar believes that Dalaran rejoining the Alliance was a mistake, and he thinks that the Kirin Tor should stay out of global politics. But he's not neutral guys! He's an Alliance hero, we swear!

I don't know. The wiki seems like he's basically helping out individual Horde heroes, rather than the Horde itself. If they play it right, the Horde might have to deal with following a "neutral" Khadgar like the Alliance playerbase had to follow a "neutral" Thrall. They can be as neutral as they want, but they are still symbols of their respective factions.

Civil War Man wrote:It is difficult to say. From what I've heard talking to people in the Beta, outside of Ashran the Alliance and Horde largely stay out of each others' ways, but there also isn't much reason given as to why anyone other than the Orcs and Draenei would care what happens on the planet. Maybe Stormwind would care at the beginning, since the Iron Horde's coming through the Dark Portal, but the first thing the player does upon going through the portal is killing a bunch of Orcs and then shutting the portal off. But the players are not stranded, even if you ignore game mechanics like mage portals, because in the garrison quests Khadgar is explicitly shown opening portals to Stormwind and Orgrimmar. So even in the story the capitals are protected from anything the bad guys can do, but the players can move back and forth at their leisure.

When it comes down to it, the Iron Horde doesn't really seem like much of a threat. Yeah, they blow up Nethergarde, but Alliance strongholds are blown up all the time, and the Alliance has lost much bigger than Nethergarde in the past. It's basically fighting the exact same Horde as the one in the original Warcraft, only they don't have demon blood this time around.

On a side note, I mentioned Khadgar earlier and about how he can open portals to cities in both factions. This expansion he's the big NPC that both factions work with, even though he's also part of the ruling council of Dalaran. Kosak even said that Khadgar believes that Dalaran rejoining the Alliance was a mistake, and he thinks that the Kirin Tor should stay out of global politics. But he's not neutral guys! He's an Alliance hero, we swear!

In short, Khadgar is the ingame mouthpiece for Kosak's bullshit. That shitpiece throws a hissyfit whenever Allied players get tossed so much as a gnawed on bone.

Unfortunately the Horde still suffers from the same narrative weakness it's always had, an incredibly short roster of notable NPCs. With Nazgrim dead and Garrosh an official enemy the Horde is down to it's faction leaders and Saurfang, who should be in an orc retirement home by now. That's why Thrall had to go be a quest giver again, but Maraad and Khadgar could be pulled out and dusted off for WoD.

The alternative to Khadgar helping the Horde seems to be conjuring up a couple brand new Horde NPCs to fill the same role (or making Thrall do that too). You heartless monster, how could you ask Blizzard to re-record that exposition with a different voice actor?! [/sarcasm]

though last time Khadgar was truly "alliance side" rather just "member of an alliance race" was back in WC2 expansion when he was re-introduced in TBC he working for a Neutral faction, yes it would be nice if you had more prominent horde NPCs but it's not like there isn't a precident for Khadgar helping the Horde.

Lord Revan wrote:though last time Khadgar was truly "alliance side" rather just "member of an alliance race" was back in WC2 expansion when he was re-introduced in TBC he working for a Neutral faction, yes it would be nice if you had more prominent horde NPCs but it's not like there isn't a precident for Khadgar helping the Horde.

Oh, I can definitely see Khadgar being neutral, but I can also see him being 100% Alliance (or 100% Dalaran, grudgingly Alliance and 0% Horde). The reason *I* think he went neutral is laziness since they can stick a generic "champion" in one VA script more easily than invent another set of one-shot Horde NPCs (and accompanying VA)to fill in whatever story role Khadgar has. Why go through the work of inventing new NPCs when you can just keep pulling already developed unused Alliance NPCs out of storage and neutralizing them?

The funny thing is, they didn't have to invent new Horde NPCs to mirror Khadgar. If the Horde needs a prominent mage character, they could have used, for example, Aethas Sunreaver or Grand Magister Rommath. If they needed a character with a connection to Draenor, they could have used Saurfang, Eitrigg, or Rexxar.

Honestly, they should just come out and say he's neutral. It's kind of insulting that they keep claiming he's an Alliance character and expect Alliance players to believe them when they say it. He helps both factions build their garrisons, helps both factions build their legendaries, and doesn't even have so much as an unkind word to say to either faction. He's neutral. Stop pissing on our legs and telling us it's raining.

Civil War Man wrote:The funny thing is, they didn't have to invent new Horde NPCs to mirror Khadgar. If the Horde needs a prominent mage character, they could have used, for example, Aethas Sunreaver or Grand Magister Rommath. If they needed a character with a connection to Draenor, they could have used Saurfang, Eitrigg, or Rexxar.

And it's not even a big leap to have magisters of Quel'thalas or the Sunreavers to be involved with the Draenor expedition after all the Bloodknights are involved to point their matriach is present at Draenor, say that they're there to redeem themselves for assisting Garrosh in his mad conquest either thru action or inaction.

Darmalus wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:though last time Khadgar was truly "alliance side" rather just "member of an alliance race" was back in WC2 expansion when he was re-introduced in TBC he working for a Neutral faction, yes it would be nice if you had more prominent horde NPCs but it's not like there isn't a precident for Khadgar helping the Horde.

Oh, I can definitely see Khadgar being neutral, but I can also see him being 100% Alliance (or 100% Dalaran, grudgingly Alliance and 0% Horde). The reason *I* think he went neutral is laziness since they can stick a generic "champion" in one VA script more easily than invent another set of one-shot Horde NPCs (and accompanying VA)to fill in whatever story role Khadgar has. Why go through the work of inventing new NPCs when you can just keep pulling already developed unused Alliance NPCs out of storage and neutralizing them?

Having played it, it seems to be more that there's a story with it. The entire legendary quest is about helping Khadgar with a mission (much like Wrathion in MoP) and it seems major enough that swapping characters would detract from it.

He seems to be important from the levelling bits I did and playing around on a level 100 premade.

Civil War Man wrote:The funny thing is, they didn't have to invent new Horde NPCs to mirror Khadgar. If the Horde needs a prominent mage character, they could have used, for example, Aethas Sunreaver or Grand Magister Rommath. If they needed a character with a connection to Draenor, they could have used Saurfang, Eitrigg, or Rexxar.

That's a good point. I'd gotten so used to a lack of NPC ontological inertial between expansions I had assumed that Aethas and Rommath had already vanished with the end of MoP, never to be heard from again.

I got to say that now that I've played WoD for a while (not as much as liked thanks to queues but still) I'm liking it, there's some bugs (like a one that prevented me from getting the bodyguard follower I wanted) but so far it's not the bare functioning mess that the doomsayers claimed and the story while maybe not Oscar worthy is at least enjoyble, at least on Horde side I've not yet tried the ally side.

I'm about half way through 99 on my Horde main and 91 on my Ally main, and the questing experience has been very solid. The graphics are very pretty and good sound design and the quest writing is equal to Mists. It's clear they have improved on their phasing tech, it's integrated much more smoothly and really helps the quest lines move forward organically.

I like Garrisons, but I also feel they are excessively mandatory, which I could see pissing off someone who doesn't like them.

As far as dungeons, they feel like a significant step down from Mists in terms of story telling even if the boss mechanics are about the same quality. The dungeon is just... there, and the bosses are nearly as quiet as the LFG players outside of calling out abilities. The dungeons make sense in the context of where they are placed, but they feel very flat.

Dunno, I really liked the Iron Docks. Was rather fun with the Orc Captain and his 1st officer nattering as we murderfaced our way to him.

Sharp-kun wrote:Dunno, I really liked the Iron Docks. Was rather fun with the Orc Captain and his 1st officer nattering as we murderfaced our way to him.

Haven't had that one pop up yet, DPS queue is over an hour so I've only done Slagmines and Spire since I almost always log out or swap characters before I get in.

On a side note, I'm absolutely in love with the iron horde machines, especially the battleships.

Most tanks are probably comfortably running with guilds (or just gave up) due to the pressure of dungeons you can't sleep through. You run into your fair share of jerkwads when you don't out-gear the content by 100ilvls.