StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Shep's system introduces a lot of complexity, and as Beo pointed out, it limits the flexibility in your deployment. The system Beowulf came up with is quite a bit easier, and most of the work is done for you, by me (because I'm a nice guy like that).

Basically all you have to do is right click, save as the following link:

http://rogueice2k3.googlepages.com/Blan ... cation.xls

plug in your point values, and off you go. You'll see how many points you have left, and on the aircraft side even get a true number of aircraft (for those procured in flights). Just split the total points between your Navy and Air Force however you want in column B1 of each tab and you're good to go.

As memory serves, points start at 1600 for an Imperium and go down by half from there on out. So...

1600
800
400
200
100

Though it may be modified later. *shrug*

Whenever army points get figured out (I somehow "volunteered" for it but I'll be crying for help before it's done most likely ) I can just add those in, we get the final point totals, and you just plug 'em in. Microsoft Excel takes care of the number crunching for you (and on Beo's simpler system it won't take me the better part of an afternoon to do the formulas...Shep dude your system is very complex!).

EDIT: Lonestar pointed out a boo-boo I made in translating Beo's system. Fixed as of around 1610 16 July 2008 Eastern Time.

EDIT: nevermind, I'm an idiot. That point system works out roughly to what I've drawn up for my navy/air force, so it's fine by me.

SiegeTank wrote:100 points for a Duchy is hilariously insane. I've got a $400 billion GDP, but I can only afford 20 4th-generation fighters? Um, yeah.

You'd have 20 flights of four (well 25 if you put an even 50/50 split in) amounting to 100 4th gen fighters. Which is a bit less than what Kingdoms would have (mostly) gotten.

Oh yeah, I edited this so SiegeTank beat me to the edit.

I hoped my edit had occurred before anyone saw it and pointed out just how utterly wrong I was. Alas, it was not to be. Yes, you're perfectly right, it works out quite well for me.

SiegeTank wrote:I hoped I'd beaten everyone to pointing out just how utterly wrong I was. Alas, it was not to be. Yes, you're perfectly right, it works out quite well for me.

Actually I edited after you when I did a check for myself. So yeah, you did beat me.

I still want Coilerburg to be in, and I still want it shaped like Vermont. I also want it to be part of a continent, and preferably be a peninsula. Not sure on what I want its military to consist of yet, though.

...It turns out that I'm more inept at this number-crunching and military hardware business than I thought. Okay, so what exactly would qualify for each generation of fighters, anyway?

Lightweight 3rd-gen: Dassault Mirage III and derivatives (IAI Kfir), F-5 Freedom Fighter/Tiger II, Mikoyan MiG-21
Full-size 3rd-gen: Dassault Mirage F1, F-4 Phantom II, Mikoyan MiG-23
Lightweight 4th-gen: Dassault Mirage 2000, F-16A/B/C/D Fighting Falcon, F/A-18A/B/C/D Hornet, Mikoyan MiG-29
Full-size 4th-gen: F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, Sukhoi Su-27
Lightweight 5th-gen: Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16E/F Fighting Falcon, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II, Mikoyan MiG-35, Sukhoi Su-30
Full-size 5th-gen: F-22 Raptor

Does that look about right, or am I horribly off on something? Also, where would stuff like the F-15E Strike Eagle, F-111 Aardvark, Sukhoi Su-24, and Sukhoi Su-34 be classified, as fighters of their appropriate generation or as tactical bombers? What about close air support craft such as the A-10 Thunderbolt II or Sukhoi Su-25?

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:...It turns out that I'm more inept at this number-crunching and military hardware business than I thought. Okay, so what exactly would qualify for each generation of fighters, anyway?

Lightweight 3rd-gen: Dassault Mirage III and derivatives (IAI Kfir), F-5 Freedom Fighter/Tiger II, Mikoyan MiG-21
Full-size 3rd-gen: Dassault Mirage F1, F-4 Phantom II, Mikoyan MiG-23
Lightweight 4th-gen: Dassault Mirage 2000, F-16A/B/C/D Fighting Falcon, F/A-18A/B/C/D Hornet, Mikoyan MiG-29
Full-size 4th-gen: F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, Sukhoi Su-27
Lightweight 5th-gen: Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16E/F Fighting Falcon, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II, Mikoyan MiG-35, Sukhoi Su-30
Full-size 5th-gen: F-22 Raptor

Does that look about right, or am I horribly off on something? Also, where would stuff like the F-15E Strike Eagle, F-111 Aardvark, Sukhoi Su-24, and Sukhoi Su-34 be classified, as fighters of their appropriate generation or as tactical bombers? What about close air support craft such as the A-10 Thunderbolt II or Sukhoi Su-25?

Beowulf already specifically excluded the -18E/F as lightweight, and he answered a few more of your questions back in this post. The F-111 I know he classifies as a Tactical Bomber. Also the teen series (which would include the Super Hornets) are 4th gen while the F-35s are full-weight 5th gen (but only available in limited numbers as prototype testers anyway). I don't think there's much that was considered as a "lightweight 5th gen" but I put it up there for completeness sake. Although since that's the same cost as a full-size 4th gen it doesn't matter anyway, I'd think.

EDIT: This seems to be a decent enough list.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote: Lightweight 5th-gen: Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16E/F Fighting Falcon, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II, Mikoyan MiG-35, Sukhoi Su-30
Full-size 5th-gen: F-22 Raptor

Not one of those ‘lightweight’ fifth generation planes belongs in the fifth generation. Those are all 4.5 gen aircraft, though even that title is dubious for certain models the basic models of the Su-30. The only fifth geenraiton fighters to have actually flown are the F-35 and F-22.

But reall,y trying to push all aircraft into just light and heavy is just wrong and bound to cause trouble, like classifying the F-35 and the F-22 together. Light, Medium and Heavy would work much.

RogueIce wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:...It turns out that I'm more inept at this number-crunching and military hardware business than I thought. Okay, so what exactly would qualify for each generation of fighters, anyway?

Lightweight 3rd-gen: Dassault Mirage III and derivatives (IAI Kfir), F-5 Freedom Fighter/Tiger II, Mikoyan MiG-21
Full-size 3rd-gen: Dassault Mirage F1, F-4 Phantom II, Mikoyan MiG-23
Lightweight 4th-gen: Dassault Mirage 2000, F-16A/B/C/D Fighting Falcon, F/A-18A/B/C/D Hornet, Mikoyan MiG-29
Full-size 4th-gen: F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, Sukhoi Su-27
Lightweight 5th-gen: Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16E/F Fighting Falcon, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II, Mikoyan MiG-35, Sukhoi Su-30
Full-size 5th-gen: F-22 Raptor

Does that look about right, or am I horribly off on something? Also, where would stuff like the F-15E Strike Eagle, F-111 Aardvark, Sukhoi Su-24, and Sukhoi Su-34 be classified, as fighters of their appropriate generation or as tactical bombers? What about close air support craft such as the A-10 Thunderbolt II or Sukhoi Su-25?

Beowulf already specifically excluded the -18E/F as lightweight, and he answered a few more of your questions back in this post. The F-111 I know he classifies as a Tactical Bomber. Also the teen series (which would include the Super Hornets) are 4th gen while the F-35s are full-weight 5th gen (but only available in limited numbers as prototype testers anyway). I don't think there's much that was considered as a "lightweight 5th gen" but I put it up there for completeness sake. Although since that's the same cost as a full-size 4th gen it doesn't matter anyway, I'd think.

EDIT: This seems to be a decent enough list.

I know I had seen Beowulf's post before, but it was buried under a bunch of other stuff, so it didn't immediately come to mind. Thanks anyway.

Sea Skimmer wrote:Not one of those ‘lightweight’ fifth generation planes belongs in the fifth generation. Those are all 4.5 gen aircraft, though even that title is dubious for certain models the basic models of the Su-30. The only fifth geenraiton fighters to have actually flown are the F-35 and F-22.

But reall,y trying to push all aircraft into just light and heavy is just wrong and bound to cause trouble, like classifying the F-35 and the F-22 together. Light, Medium and Heavy would work much.

Yeah, I knew I was off on the classification of most of those "lightweights." The whole light/heavy and "4.5 gen = 4th gen" thing's just causing me a whole lot of grief right now.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Utterly ruthless!

Aw, mang! Now I must create some sort of complex imperial history of Shroomania!

EDIT:

HEY! Duchies and Principalities! Who wants to be a former Shroomanian colony?

We can once again form the Fungal Union of Nations - but this will be a Commonwealth type of deal.

I'll be a colony. Makes for interesting possibilities...

You know...Stas still hasn't told me, where he will put me on the map.

Is he still around or did he run away with his wife?

Ok, New Patria will become The Republic of Alaska, shaped like Alaska + the Yukon + Most of B.C. + Hawaii (but closer to the coast) . I'd like to be on the coast of one of the continents. Lots of land and resources, but not totally self-sufficient for food, and a relatively low population (But what I do have is first world-ish).

DarthShady wrote:You know...Stas still hasn't told me, where he will put me on the map.

Is he still around or did he run away with his wife?

Ran away with wife, he won't be back until mid-august.

Lonestar wrote:

DarthShady wrote:You know...Stas still hasn't told me, where he will put me on the map.

Is he still around or did he run away with his wife?

Ran away with wife, he won't be back until mid-august.

Lucky Bastard.

So are we going to wait for him to come back before we start the new one?

I think it would be fair and it gives us time to work out the details.

DarthShady wrote:
Lucky Bastard.

So are we going to wait for him to come back before we start the new one?

Yes.

For the geography of my country, which will be patterned off the PRCs uneven state of modernization and the fanaticism of Imperial Japan, I’ve worked out the following block of land. Basically it’s the very south of continental Asia.

Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Peninsular Malaysia and Singapore. In addition about 30 years previously my state overran and annexed the geographic equivalents of Sumatra and the Andaman & Nicobar Islands. Lingering low level conflict continues, requiring a big military presence and lots of death railways.

This is a total land area of 3,182,000sqkm, no small place, but not even as big as India is in real life. Land are and islands will be identical, but I intend to have somewhat different geography. The actual combined GDP and population of this area is about 1.1 trillion for 295.3 million people. My country with have about 500 million people with a per capita GDP PPP of 10,000 dollars, but the wealth is incredibly unevenly distributed. Population density works out to be a bit higher then that of the PRC.

So, you really ARE going for the 100 MILLION BAYONETS READY TO DIE FOR THE EMPEROR! thing?

Lonestar wrote:So, you really ARE going for the 100 MILLION BAYONETS READY TO DIE FOR THE EMPEROR! thing?

Piif, I'll see him one better, I'll see your "South Asian Horde" and Raise you Mongolia, complete with Godamn Mongolians! , That or a Supersized North Korea complete with white Horse Riding "Great Leader" well know for his bowling score of 300 and super powers.

Yeah, I'm threw playing responsible Machiavellian world leaders, it's time to bring on the crazy. Combining Canassian Hedonism with Saddamstain planning with a large dose of Shroomian Leadership.

Mr Bean wrote:

Lonestar wrote:So, you really ARE going for the 100 MILLION BAYONETS READY TO DIE FOR THE EMPEROR! thing?

Piif, I'll see him one better, I'll see your "South Asian Horde" and Raise you Mongolia, complete with Godamn Mongolians! , That or a Supersized North Korea complete with white Horse Riding "Great Leader" well know for his bowling score of 300 and super powers.

Yeah, I'm threw playing responsible Machiavellian world leaders, it's time to bring on the crazy. Combining Canassian Hedonism with Saddamstain planning with a large dose of Shroomian Leadership.

Nice. This game certainly will be interesting this time around.

Raj Ahten wrote:Nice. This game certainly will be interesting this time around.

Pfft. After he shot Shep, I wonder how much crazier it can get.

On the other hand, I'll have frequent run-ins with my backyard given that by the start of the game, I'd be holding onto Jerusalem and having to fend off the occassional religious whacko.

To the group mapmaker,

The Qudlivun Free State will now become the Most Serene Republic of Ninhursag. I will also present two choices for map placement. I request a landlocked nation (along the lines of Luxembourg) if placed on the continent or an island nation (along the lines of Cyprus) if allowed.

Vohu Manah wrote:To the group mapmaker,

The Qudlivun Free State will now become the Most Serene Republic of Ninhursag. I will also present two choices for map placement. I request a landlocked nation (along the lines of Luxembourg) if placed on the continent or an island nation (along the lines of Cyprus) if allowed.

Dude, map probably won't be make until mid-august. I also wouldn't expect Stas to shift through this thread looking through every damn post.

Yeah, we should do a dedicated map post in an an info-thread that's locked to other comments, or a dedicated map thread even.

RogueIce wrote:Shep's system introduces a lot of complexity, and as Beo pointed out, it limits the flexibility in your deployment. The system Beowulf came up with is quite a bit easier, and most of the work is done for you, by me (because I'm a nice guy like that).

Basically all you have to do is right click, save as the following link:

http://rogueice2k3.googlepages.com/Blan ... cation.xls

plug in your point values, and off you go. You'll see how many points you have left, and on the aircraft side even get a true number of aircraft (for those procured in flights). Just split the total points between your Navy and Air Force however you want in column B1 of each tab and you're good to go.

As memory serves, points start at 1600 for an Imperium and go down by half from there on out. So...

1600
800
400
200
100

Though it may be modified later. *shrug*

Whenever army points get figured out (I somehow "volunteered" for it but I'll be crying for help before it's done most likely ) I can just add those in, we get the final point totals, and you just plug 'em in. Microsoft Excel takes care of the number crunching for you (and on Beo's simpler system it won't take me the better part of an afternoon to do the formulas...Shep dude your system is very complex!).

EDIT: Lonestar pointed out a boo-boo I made in translating Beo's system. Fixed as of around 1610 16 July 2008 Eastern Time.

Is this for both Navy and Air Force or mutually exclusive?