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Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 05:09am
by K. A. Pital
Andrew_Fireborn wrote:In anycase... it looks like I either glitched, or any method of ending Tenpenny Tower without the Ghouls wallowing in their own blood ultimately ends up with everyone else in the tower dead... (Well, except Burke for some reason...)
That's right. Kill the ghouls, else they kill everyone at Tenpenny, sooner or later.
Vympel wrote:"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE!"
Oh, yeah, LIBERTY PRIME was awesome and funny.

Seriously though, no comment on how every faction and city lived thereafter is rather lame; and the game engine allows for pretty awesome animations showing ending sequences, so Bethesda has no excuse on the letdown and I hope someone will rectify it fast enough.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 05:31am
by Darth Onasi
You know what I hate about the ending? I asked Lyons to do it instead and the ending's all like "You selfish ass!".
Yeah. Of course Mr. Radiation-Doesn't-Hurt-Meh Fawkes gets no such criticism for refusing.
Stas Bush wrote:Seriously though, no comment on how every faction and city lived thereafter is rather lame; and the game engine allows for pretty awesome animations showing ending sequences, so Bethesda has no excuse on the letdown and I hope someone will rectify it fast enough.
My theory is they ran out of money to pay Ron Perlman. 8)

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 05:33am
by The Grim Squeaker
Vympel wrote: Anyone else scratch their head over what the purifier code was? I had no idea - apparently it's supposed to appear in your notes, but it didn't for me, so I had to use google.
Nope, it's pretty damn obvious, remember, your father set the code. Check your notes.
Still stumped? There's a dialogue option of telling the BoS chick to go instead of you, and you'll be able to tell her the code.

Too lazy? It's your mother's favourite biblical passage, Revelations XXXX (check your notes, I thik it's 21:16 or somesuch, the line about the water)

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 06:22am
by Zixinus
I thought the code thing was actually rather clever. It was practically shouted at you throughout the game yet it was still left to you to figure out.
Anyone else scratch their head over what the purifier code was? I had no idea - apparently it's supposed to appear in your notes, but it didn't for me, so I had to use google.
The bible verse. I think that part was clever.
The ending is annoying. I had plenty of RadX, Rad-Away and a radiation suit going into the control chamber but the program still makes you die even though you've survived worse getting the G.E.C.K.
On one hand, there is the fact that there is just certain amount of radiation that no one can survive.

On the other hand, they could have just somehow disabled the emergency procedue. What kind of water treatment plant has that kind of a failsafe anyway? What, good old dad expected to die in heroic fashion?

What I don't get, is why not just get a robot or something. Or a ghoul from near-by Underworld, they're immune to radiation (or Hawkes, however my guess is that he wasn't initially meant as a companion, he even said so back in the Vault but I guess the developers decided against it later on, hence his weak excuse).

What bothers me even more, is that after I destroy President Eden what's my quarrel with the Enclave guy? Why can't I just give him the code? After all, he wants to do the same thing I want: activate the damn thing. He could all go and die a heroic death.

And the thing about virus. I can get it why the Enclave is insane, but how could the computer be (also, why is a computer persuaded by a high speech skill?)? Didn't he see most of the other vaults? Didn't he know that they were meant to be experiments (which mostly failed, miserably, judging by the vaults in the DC area alone)? Doesn't he see that there is no USA left?

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 06:32am
by Vendetta
Andrew_Fireborn wrote: Each point of luck is also technically worth 13 skill points, since it adds 1 to every skill... (And a 2% crit chance, aside.).
Luck only gives a skill bonus every other point, but to get the max skill boost you only need it at 9.

If you start it at 6 and get the shades, 8 ball, and bobblehead you'll get the max skill bonus.
Oh, yeah, LIBERTY PRIME was awesome and funny.
Sergeant RL-3 is pretty funny as well. Not quite as fuckawesome as Liberty Prime, but then he is quite a lot smaller.

"Today is a great day to die, commie!"

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 06:36am
by Vendetta
Darth Onasi wrote:You know what I hate about the ending? I asked Lyons to do it instead and the ending's all like "You selfish ass!".
Yeah. Of course Mr. Radiation-Doesn't-Hurt-Meh Fawkes gets no such criticism for refusing.
It's not as bad with Fawkes as it is with Charon or Clover, both of whom are your slaves who would literally follow any other order you gave, no matter how insane and suicidal. Also, Charon is healed by Radiation, he's a fucking Ghoul.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 06:42am
by The Grim Squeaker
Zixinus wrote:I thought the code thing was actually rather clever. It was practically shouted at you throughout the game yet it was still left to you to figure out.
It WAS a nice bit of payoff, yes.
The ending is annoying. I had plenty of RadX, Rad-Away and a radiation suit going into the control chamber but the program still makes you die even though you've survived worse getting the G.E.C.K.
On one hand, there is the fact that there is just certain amount of radiation that no one can survive.
Silly you, using game mechanics ;). The main argument for me is the whole "What about Fawkes for fucks sake".
On the other hand, they could have just somehow disabled the emergency procedue. What kind of water treatment plant has that kind of a failsafe anyway? What, good old dad expected to die in heroic fashion?
The problematicness of the procedure and emergency lock was a big point of why the Enclave needed "you". I recall the radiation being due to Dad rerouting something to try to kill the Enclave soldiers with him. (How the fuck did Autumn survive that though? He had less innate Rad resistance than someone from the wastes, and no armour).
What I don't get, is why not just get a robot or something. Or a ghoul from near-by Underworld, they're immune to radiation (or Hawkes, however my guess is that he wasn't initially meant as a companion, he even said so back in the Vault but I guess the developers decided against it later on, hence his weak excuse).
Well, the alarms were a 'blaring, so maybe they didn't have time? (There's no excuse for not being able to use your radiation immune companions)
What bothers me even more, is that after I destroy President Eden what's my quarrel with the Enclave guy? Why can't I just give him the code? After all, he wants to do the same thing I want: activate the damn thing. He could all go and die a heroic death.
Presumably it's not worth his life to him, and he leaves before the needs for a sacrificial mule is evident.
And the thing about virus. I can get it why the Enclave is insane, but how could the computer be (also, why is a computer persuaded by a high speech skill?)?
One of the bits in the speech persuasion is that the computer may not be running at 100%, especially with faulty data input over the centuries.
Didn't he see most of the other vaults? Didn't he know that they were meant to be experiments (which mostly failed, miserably, judging by the vaults in the DC area alone)?
The vaults performed their roles as experiments reasonably well, the only flaw was thatthe remnants of the US government hit a snag due to their (almost succesful) plan to launch a giant spaceship failing and their plan to kill the rest of the world with F.E.V being foiled by the Chosen One in FO2.
Doesn't he see that there is no USA left?
Listen to the radio station, he talks a lot about America being an ideal. And anyway, as long as the dream of freedom lives on, armies of power armour clad soldiers with giant plasma rifles can ressurect it from the smoking ash piles of the mutated monstrosities defiling the lands of America :D

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 07:06am
by Zixinus
Silly you, using game mechanics The main argument for me is the whole "What about Fawkes for fucks sake".
I meant judging by non-ingame mechanics. There is an amount of radiation that cannot be survived regardless the amount of precautions. If you looked well enough, you might notice that only a pile of goo remains of the player in the endgame sequence (which was SHITTY, seriously, why develop a multi-million dollar engine if you are going to use snapshot movies?). The radiation levels might be tolerable while the water purifier is off, but once you activated it, it might have made the whole thing go to such levels that not even Fawkes could survive.

But, personally, I think its still shitty writing. I still don't get why would there be such a system in the facility in the first place.
I recall the radiation being due to Dad rerouting something to try to kill the Enclave soldiers with him.
Why would a water treatment plant have anything that is incredibly radioactive in its system in the first place? Yes, there is the reactor, but wouldn't that make the whole place unpowered?

It just doesn't make any fucking sense. Didn't he see you there, armed to the teeth? Didn't he even considering fighting his way out with your help? Couldn't he use some less-lethal countermeasure?

Of course not, because HE HAD TO DIE A DRAMATIC DEATH. Gah. : :banghead:
Well, the alarms were a 'blaring, so maybe they didn't have time?
Then why not just shut down the whole thing and restart it?
Presumably it's not worth his life to him, and he leaves before the needs for a sacrificial mule is evident.
Yeah, but why fight him in the first place? He's a fanatic, why couldn't he die to help make the American Dream a reality again? Well, after some savvy-talking but that would have been much better than "GIVE ME THE CODE SO YOU MAY PUT IT IN! OR I KILL YOU WHILE YOU INPUT THE CODE AND DIE!".

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 07:52am
by Darth Onasi
Vendetta wrote:It's not as bad with Fawkes as it is with Charon or Clover, both of whom are your slaves who would literally follow any other order you gave, no matter how insane and suicidal. Also, Charon is healed by Radiation, he's a fucking Ghoul.
True, when Clover basically told me. "Fuck no" I couldn't believe it.
What happened to "she's so crazy she'll do anything"? Where's the line where I say "Get your butt in there or I'll have your collar turn your head into jelly!".

I can see what Bethesda were trying to do. Big epic finish. A twist on the line from the beginning: "It is here you were born, it is here where you'll die."
But then they give us.. what? 5 followers who are either immune or be willing to go in for you (Fawkes, Charon, Clover, RL-3, Cross).

Edit: I have to add it's funny that if you do go in to the control room, your companion follows you in anyway. :lol:
Zixinus wrote:Why would a water treatment plant have anything that is incredibly radioactive in its system in the first place? Yes, there is the reactor, but wouldn't that make the whole place unpowered?
This is a game where nuclear cars go kaboom if you shoot them with a BB gun (14 shots, to be exact).
So this part isn't surprising to me.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 09:07am
by Andrew_Fireborn
Vendetta wrote:
Andrew_Fireborn wrote: Each point of luck is also technically worth 13 skill points, since it adds 1 to every skill... (And a 2% crit chance, aside.).
Luck only gives a skill bonus every other point, but to get the max skill boost you only need it at 9.

If you start it at 6 and get the shades, 8 ball, and bobblehead you'll get the max skill bonus.
Heh, thanks. Most of my info's from other sources, as I'm too busy to carefully note these things in game.

I'm ridiculously min-max'er when it comes to this type of game... Hell, I've never actually beaten Breath of Fire 3 because I kept restarting it to follow some esoteric Master/level progression, knowing fully about the Fairy Village and its ability to replicate the assorted stat-up items... (Meaning, the various bonuses/penalties the Masters offered were ultimately moot because you could max everyone with enough time-sink and luck...)

Along the same line... my "good" character is only at Vault 108, while I've started an evil character to get those achievements. (And bilk the game for the lower level Neutral ones... Yay free karma from hydrating hobos...) Might be the third game I get 1k/1k on... Only hard ones likely to be -finding- 50 speech challenges, let alone succeeding in them.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 10:20am
by Zixinus

This is a game where nuclear cars go kaboom if you shoot them with a BB gun (14 shots, to be exact).
So this part isn't surprising to me.
Point, but there is a difference between a minor, unimportant thing not making sense and a significant thing not making sense.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 10:24am
by Vendetta
Darth Onasi wrote: True, when Clover basically told me. "Fuck no" I couldn't believe it.
What happened to "she's so crazy she'll do anything"? Where's the line where I say "Get your butt in there or I'll have your collar turn your head into jelly!".
You should at least have had the option to pop her collar for refusing, because if you're an evil character (which you have to be to recruit Clover), that kind of "fuck you then" would be appropriately in character.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 10:43am
by Darth Onasi
Zixinus wrote:

This is a game where nuclear cars go kaboom if you shoot them with a BB gun (14 shots, to be exact).
So this part isn't surprising to me.
Point, but there is a difference between a minor, unimportant thing not making sense and a significant thing not making sense.
I wouldn't call it minor when there's a nuclear timebomb car every three steps :P
I see what you mean, but Bethesda's attitude toward nuclear energy is either lolkaboom or lolradiation.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 10:55am
by Vympel
Did anyone run into that area in DC where there's some lunatic screaming into a loudspeaker and if you walk into a certain alleyway he sets off a trap and blows your ass up?

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 11:02am
by Darth Onasi
Vympel wrote:Did anyone run into that area in DC where there's some lunatic screaming into a loudspeaker and if you walk into a certain alleyway he sets off a trap and blows your ass up?
That area outside Reilly's Rangers HQ? Somebody has access to nuclear land mines or something.
There's an npc cowering nearby who you can convince to walk into the trap for you and get killed.
Strangely you get no karma loss for this.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 11:12am
by Commander 598
Not nuke landmines, just a couple of mini-nukes laying around and some landmines to set them off by proxy.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 12:16pm
by Ryan Thunder
Darth Onasi wrote:
Vympel wrote:Did anyone run into that area in DC where there's some lunatic screaming into a loudspeaker and if you walk into a certain alleyway he sets off a trap and blows your ass up?
That area outside Reilly's Rangers HQ? Somebody has access to nuclear land mines or something.
There's an npc cowering nearby who you can convince to walk into the trap for you and get killed.
Strangely you get no karma loss for this.
I never understood that. You don't even gain anything by doing it, beyond clearing a minefield... :?

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 12:20pm
by Mr Bean
Ryan Thunder wrote:
I never understood that. You don't even gain anything by doing it, beyond clearing a minefield... :?
Better option, tell your followers to stay, then use a steathboy to sneak in, loot all the landmines and mini-nukes then send the guy in there, there are scripted explosions but you can pick up half a dozen mines and and four mini-nukes if you do.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 03:25pm
by Erik von Nein
Andrew_Fireborn wrote: Only hard ones likely to be -finding- 50 speech challenges, let alone succeeding in them.
There's a glitch with a guy in Big Town when you talk to him about the town bicycle (the gloomy goth girl) that allows you to use your speech skill over and over, giving you more experience and successes. Don't know if it'll work the same way again, but I basically leveled up twice of him once, since my success rate was 100%.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 09:09pm
by Darth Onasi
I just installed a mod that replaces the BoS trashcan armour with the classic T-51b.
I have to say they look awesome now. Bethesda did a fine job of rendering the original armor, I wonder why they decided to make it a one off item. :?

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 09:21pm
by Stark
How about 'because it's 200 years after a war and they're technically-demanding high-technology items'? In the story, they were the absolute peak of US military technology (and far more effective than they are in Fallout 'lol Tenpenny armour is nearly as good as BoS armour' 3.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 09:25pm
by Darth Onasi
Stark wrote:How about 'because it's 200 years after a war and they're technically-demanding high-technology items'? In the story, they were the absolute peak of US military technology
Which the BoS in Fallout 1 had so many of, they were willing to junk an entire suit because it's soldered helmet lamp didn't pass muster.
That said, what is the Power Armor in Fallout 3 supposed to be anyway? The infamous Van Buren T-45d that runs on power cells?
(and far more effective than they are in Fallout 'lol Tenpenny armour is nearly as good as BoS armour' 3.
And that's another reason I could never play the console versions, mods fix that too.
Well to a certain extent. I can still down Enclave troops with a shotgun.

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 09:39pm
by Stark
Darth Onasi wrote:Which the BoS in Fallout 1 had so many of, they were willing to junk an entire suit because it's soldered helmet lamp didn't pass muster.
Oh yeah they had so many of them A HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS AGO THIS IS RELEVANT that they jealously guarded them because they were valueless. I forgot.
Darth Onasi wrote:That said, what is the Power Armor in Fallout 3 supposed to be anyway? The infamous Van Buren T-45d that runs on power cells?
This is what nerds tell me, but I'm not sure there's anything in the game that confirms it. After the destruction of the Enclave's base, I don't think anyone left has the tech to build 'proper' power armour anymore.
And that's another reason I could never play the console versions, mods fix that too.
Well to a certain extent. I can still down Enclave troops with a shotgun.
Beth game may be broken and require mods to be non-shit.

10/10 perfect game! :D

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 09:44pm
by Darth Onasi
Stark wrote:Oh yeah they had so many of them A HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS AGO THIS IS RELEVANT that they jealously guarded them because they were valueless. I forgot.
Well I'm not saying they should be handing them out or anything, just that they should be using them.
That said having Knights in Power Armor too is somewhat odd, since only Paladins were supposed to have them.
This is what nerds tell me, but I'm not sure there's anything in the game that confirms it.
Well there is a terminal in the Museum of Technology that mentions the T-45d. Could be nothing more than an easter egg and isn't definitely connected to the BoS Power Armor, but the suit does exist in Fallout 3 canon.
After the destruction of the Enclave's base, I don't think anyone left has the tech to build 'proper' power armour anymore.
The Oil Rig or Raven Rock? Cause I swear the Enclave in Fallout 3 are actually using the Power Armor from Fallout Tactics.
Beth game may be broken and require mods to be non-shit.

10/10 perfect game! :D
It's worked for them since Morrowind. :P

Re: Fallout 3 Impressions and Opinions

Posted: 2008-11-18 09:51pm
by Stark
Darth Onasi wrote:Well I'm not saying they should be handing them out or anything, just that they should be using them.
That said having Knights in Power Armor too is somewhat odd, since only Paladins were supposed to have them.
You'd think the DC-area bases would have armour in them too, but apparently not. The T-51 is in a super-stasis place, so clearly someone in the last 200 years has swept through and taken all the others.

The Knights thing doesn't bother me; in F2 they were seriously declining and they never had many numbers. If they're manufacturing the shit variety or found a pile of them, there's no reason not to give them to everyone.

Saying they had lots a hundred years ago on the other side of the country is still irrelevant.
Well there is a terminal in the Museum of Technology that mentions the T-45d. Could be nothing more than an easter egg and isn't definitely connected to the BoS Power Armor, but the suit does exist in Fallout 3 canon.
Does it say the 45 uses rivets? :)
The Oil Rig or Raven Rock? Cause I swear the Enclave in Fallout 3 are actually using the Power Armor from Fallout Tactics.
I thought it was the 'improved' power armour from 2, with the silly horn things?
It's worked for them since Morrowind. :P
Their market is no-standards gamers who don't mind they've never made a quality, polished and balanced game, it's true. :)