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Havok wrote:Yes, one would take those very specific lines from Sidious and Maul, along with Mace's very specific "oppression" line to mean that the Sith ruled the galaxy and it was the Jedi that defeated them and that there is an actual cause for wanting revenge? Silly right? The way the EU writes it, it is more akin to Dark Helmet simply being mad at Yogurt for getting to Downside of the Schwartz.

The worst part is that the stories that featured this were all written after both TPM and ROTS. Darth Bane Path of Destruction was written in 2006.

EDIT: I suppose if one was interested in being generous, you could argue that the Sith wanted revenge for what happened with Revan's redemption in KOTOR. But even that was because Malak betrayed him. And the events of KOTOR 2 somewhat weaken this given that the Jedi were all but wiped out there.

Looks like Disney is scrapping the story sold to them by Lucas and making a whole new story. This worries me as none of the writers for Ep 7 has shown an ability to write epic narrative on their own before. Without Lucas's overall story arc, I fear JJ's love of the mystery box might end up creating a convoluted Star Wars story that isn't any better than most of the EU.

http://www.slashfilm.com/disney-abandon ... ar-wars-7/

ray245 wrote:Looks like Disney is scrapping the story sold to them by Lucas and making a whole new story. This worries me as none of the writers for Ep 7 has shown an ability to write epic narrative on their own before. Without Lucas's overall story arc, I fear JJ's love of the mystery box might end up creating a convoluted Star Wars story that isn't any better than most of the EU.

http://www.slashfilm.com/disney-abandon ... ar-wars-7/

It's being written by JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan.

Kasdan wrote ESB, ROTJ, and the first Indiana Jones film, so I think things should be fine.

That's old news. Don't worry too much. Kasdan helped bring us Empire, so if he gets even a tiny bit of that back, this movie should be worthy.

Gandalf wrote:

ray245 wrote:Looks like Disney is scrapping the story sold to them by Lucas and making a whole new story. This worries me as none of the writers for Ep 7 has shown an ability to write epic narrative on their own before. Without Lucas's overall story arc, I fear JJ's love of the mystery box might end up creating a convoluted Star Wars story that isn't any better than most of the EU.

http://www.slashfilm.com/disney-abandon ... ar-wars-7/

It's being written by JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan.

Kasdan wrote ESB, ROTJ, and the first Indiana Jones film, so I think things should be fine.

When Kasdan isn't working with Lucas, he end up writing films like Dreamcatcher and Darling Companion. There's no indication that Kasdan can write a decent story without working with Lucas or Spielberg.

ray245 wrote:When Kasdan isn't working with Lucas, he end up writing films like Dreamcatcher and Darling Companion. There's no indication that Kasdan can write a decent story without working with Lucas or Spielberg.

Oh no, he didn't stay exclusively inside space opera?

If having GL is apparently what makes an SW film work, you can take some solace in knowing that he's still around as a "creative consultant."

Gandalf wrote:

ray245 wrote:When Kasdan isn't working with Lucas, he end up writing films like Dreamcatcher and Darling Companion. There's no indication that Kasdan can write a decent story without working with Lucas or Spielberg.

Oh no, he didn't stay exclusively inside space opera?

If having GL is apparently what makes an SW film work, you can take some solace in knowing that he's still around as a "creative consultant."

I'm saying Kasdan has written films that is poorly received. With Lucas saying Disney had basically thrown out his outline, I'm not sure how big of a role Lucas have in the current version of the script. Together with rumours of Michael Arnt leaving due to creative differences, I'm not certain that I believe Ep7 is in the best possible hands as Disney is claiming it to be.

Adamskywalker007 wrote:Lets look at what was often claimed as the best: Mara Jade and Thrawn. We have a cheap Vader knockoff as a love interest and a strategist that is perfect until he isn't.

Thrawn is good, but he was never perfect. His death is a direct consequence of an error he made in the very first book:
Spoiler

Adamskywalker007 wrote:The problem with Thrawn was that he was written with exactly the same problem as Sherlock Holmes. He makes decisions based on information that only he knows and thus no reader could possibly figure it out. Sherlock is only an effective detective if one has never read Poirot(though Poirot is a less interesting character).

What makes Thrawn interesting isn't just what he gets right, but what he gets wrong. Zahn doesn't simply hand Thrawn an idiot ball so that he can fail, Thrawn is shown to be a good analyst who is still at the mercy of unknown unknowns. When he makes an incorrect deduction, we can see why he made it, and it is because we as the readers have access to intel that he does not.

Did anyone else see that black guy in Stormtrooper armor pop up and thought "Spaceballs"?

Please be mindful of the age of threads in future. Only revive threads over a month old if you have new content.

I won't call it thread necromancy as this is still the buzz topic of the Star Wars franchise, though.

Omeganian wrote:Did anyone else see that black guy in Stormtrooper armor pop up and thought "Spaceballs"?

Why would we?

Omeganian wrote:Did anyone else see that black guy in Stormtrooper armor pop up and thought "Spaceballs"?

I felt the same for some reason. The scene with the stormtrooper just felt really cheesy for some reason.

ray245 wrote:

Omeganian wrote:Did anyone else see that black guy in Stormtrooper armor pop up and thought "Spaceballs"?

I felt the same for some reason. The scene with the stormtrooper just felt really cheesy for some reason.

probably cause we lack context for that scene at this point, when we have the proper it might feel less cheesy (or more I dunno), but at this moment it just feels like a "trailer moment" and thus cheesy.

I'm sorry, but what about it feels cheesy? The classic Star Wars music and cues? The completely familiar sand planet setting? The stormtrooper armor? Or is it the sweaty black guy?

Havok wrote:I'm sorry, but what about it feels cheesy? The classic Star Wars music and cues? The completely familiar sand planet setting? The stormtrooper armor? Or is it the sweaty black guy?

The entire scene in general. The contrast of the cinematography, the music cue and editing all seems too much like a fanfilm. It took me a while before I realise this isn't a fake fan-made trailer.

Well, didn't they do some reshooting of the footage back in January? (I could be confusing things with another film).

Lord Revan wrote:

ray245 wrote:

Omeganian wrote:Did anyone else see that black guy in Stormtrooper armor pop up and thought "Spaceballs"?

I felt the same for some reason. The scene with the stormtrooper just felt really cheesy for some reason.

probably cause we lack context for that scene at this point, when we have the proper it might feel less cheesy (or more I dunno), but at this moment it just feels like a "trailer moment" and thus cheesy.

Don't know if I would call it cheesy but I do think he's got quite a funny expression on his face like "Oh shit oh shit oh shit!"

Anacronian wrote:Don't know if I would call it cheesy but I do think he's got quite a funny expression on his face like "Oh shit oh shit oh shit!"

Or possibly "Did anyone get the number of that sandcrawler that ran me over?"

As a completley random thought I wonder if the mystery lightsaber Sith we saw went to Endor and retrieved Vader's helmet given this concept art(originally posted in the other TFA thread:
It might actually be Endor post holocaust after the second Death Star exploded.

If they stick with insisting there was no Endor holocaust, I doubt it. Maybe Abrams has some sense, though.

I would hate it, possibly to the point of declaring the entire new trilogy non-canon, if they went with the "Endor holocaust", not that I think that they will. Its a stupid, ugly little meme that doesn't really fit with the films but that some fans insist on treating as fact, probably because they hate the Ewoks and enjoy fantasizing about Endor getting burned to the ground. As for the argument that such a thing would have to happen? How hard is it to say "The Rebels put a shield over Endor."? Not very.

The Romulan Republic wrote:How hard is it to say "The Rebels put a shield over Endor."? Not very.

You mean, the shield they just done exploding ten minutes earlier? That one?

In SW strongest shields stop energy weapons, not matter. See why X-Wings were able to attack DS1 at all and why they had to use proton torpedoes, not guns. Or why Executor was destroyed. How something ineffective like that would stop million millions of tons of military grade armour raining from orbit?

The Romulan Republic wrote:How hard is it to say "The Rebels put a shield over Endor."? Not very.

It's also pretty hard to say that they didn't.

Curtis Saxon wrote:Even if exploding hypermatter power sources are completely clean, the subsidiary antimatter and fusion devices in the Death Star II must have created an enormous burst of gamma-rays and high-energy particles. [Meltdowns are mentioned in ROTJ novel, chapter 9.] The magnitude of this flash is difficult to assess without intimate knowledge of the superphysical mechanisms of the runaway reaction and the evolving gamma-ray opacity of the debris cloud, but at least the outermost layers of the explosion must have emitted high-energy by-products. The visible parts of the surface of the nearby moon, which was as near as two thousand kilometres at the closest point, amount to 5/36 of the total area and must have been bathed in radiation. Living organisms on the irradiated side of the moon would be disposed to radiation sicknesses, if not sterilised or killed outright. Lingering radioactivity from affected areas of the moon's surface and radioactive debris fallen from the battle station would be a perpetual hazzard. Although the specifics are hard to estimate, the initial radiation flash and the long-term contamination may actually be more deadly than the climatological damage described below.

In other words the surface of Endor facing the Death Star is in exceptionally deep shit, and those closest to the point of detonation (i.e. the shield generator) are dead. So a) why are Han and Leia present for the victory celebration instead of being either incinerated or in a medical bay dying of acute radiation sickness and b) why are the rebels holding said victory celebration on the most heavily irradiated bit of the moon.

The logical conclusion is that either a) the novel was wrong and the planetary shield wasn't knocked out by the destruction of the Death Star shield generator or b) it's failure was caused by the generator's destruction tripping the circuit breakers, or similar, and it was restored before the Death Star exploded.

Irbis wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:How hard is it to say "The Rebels put a shield over Endor."? Not very.

You mean, the shield they just done exploding ten minutes earlier? That one?
In SW strongest shields stop energy weapons, not matter. See why X-Wings were able to attack DS1 at all and why they had to use proton torpedoes, not guns. Or why Executor was destroyed. How something ineffective like that would stop million millions of tons of military grade armour raining from orbit?

Executor had already lost the bridge deflector genius. If shields are that ineffective against matter why did anybody give a damn about the Endor shield being up? According to you, the rebel attack fleet should've been able to fly right through it.

The Romulan Republic wrote:I would hate it, possibly to the point of declaring the entire new trilogy non-canon, if they went with the "Endor holocaust", not that I think that they will. Its a stupid, ugly little meme that doesn't really fit with the films but that some fans insist on treating as fact, probably because they hate the Ewoks and enjoy fantasizing about Endor getting burned to the ground. As for the argument that such a thing would have to happen? How hard is it to say "The Rebels put a shield over Endor."? Not very.

I actually do have to agree somewhat from a thematic perspective. The idea that the Rebels deliberately exposed both their commandos and the indigenous population of the moon to the destruction of the Death Star just doesn't fit. The problem with the shield idea was that in the EU the Imperial fleet seemed to fight the Rebels for hours after the destruction of the Death Star, making it impossible for the Rebels to do anything. The fact that said EU is now irrelevant makes things better.

I wasn't suggesting this because I want it to be the case. I personally wasn't that bothered by ewoks. I saw the films young enough that they don't really bother me(the same with Jar Jar as well actually).

Irbis wrote: You mean, the shield they just done exploding ten minutes earlier? That one?

In SW strongest shields stop energy weapons, not matter. See why X-Wings were able to attack DS1 at all and why they had to use proton torpedoes, not guns. Or why Executor was destroyed. How something ineffective like that would stop million millions of tons of military grade armour raining from orbit?

So why did the strike team need to destroy DS2's shield if X-wings could fly right through it? While there are ways to penetrate capital ship shields with fighters during combat, a flaw not shared by the vulnerable second Death Star, they can in fact block matter as well as pure energy hits. If shields were really useless against missiles why would more capital ships not use them? Executor was only destroyed after the Rebel fleet targeted it. As for the DS1 hit, that section of the Death Star was unshielded against particle weapons because it was a ventilation system. My guess as to why is that missiles were generally considered less accurate than guns for precision attacks and it wasn't considered a serious enough threat in the presence of heavy jamming*. This does fit the fact that very few Clone Wars era fighters carried significant missile armaments.

* I realize that modern tech would likely be capable of such a hit using unjammable INS type systems. Not to mention that any naval engineer(or whatever warships designers in SW are called) worth anything would see that it was a threat in the same way that smokestacks have been protected on warships for most of the last century in reality. Eve low probability hits should be defended against if the potential for damage is severe enough

Captain Seafort wrote:In other words the surface of Endor facing the Death Star is in exceptionally deep shit, and those closest to the point of detonation (i.e. the shield generator) are dead. So a) why are Han and Leia present for the victory celebration instead of being either incinerated or in a medical bay dying of acute radiation sickness and b) why are the rebels holding said victory celebration on the most heavily irradiated bit of the moon.

The logical conclusion is that either a) the novel was wrong and the planetary shield wasn't knocked out by the destruction of the Death Star shield generator or b) it's failure was caused by the generator's destruction tripping the circuit breakers, or similar, and it was restored before the Death Star exploded.

That is probably among the most reasonable theories. It would also explain why in the novel Palpatine ordered the Death Star to fire on Endor rather than simply using a Star Destroyer to bombard the planet from orbit.
\
Another interesting theory is that of a repulsorlift cradle that held the Second Death Star in a stable orbit and then pushed most of the falling derbies away. Though this wouldn't resolve the flash issue. This is discussed in some detail in this old thread.