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Dahak wrote:

Alyrium Denryle wrote:

Thirdfain wrote: The wordings and flow of the posts point otherwise, but if you say so.

The loss of the entire initial wave is enough of a military disaster for the newscasts.

75% casualties, pretty standard for a first wave. Provided the population hsnt been carpet bombed.

Also, there were 4 waves, and an equal number in reserve. Totaling a few million men.

That's why you do orbital bombardments prior to an invasion

We did. But we arent going to nuke the population we are liberating

Pablo Sanchez wrote:

Alyrium Denryle wrote:75% casualties, pretty standard for a first wave.

EMP blanketing, pinpoint bombardment of command and control centers, and carpet bombing of landing zones would have saved the vast majority of those men. And landing in cities is a bad idea, urban terrain overwhelmingly favors the defense and offers literally millions of places to squirrel away a booby trap big enough to slag a whole army. You should have located railheads in plains or desert areas and made your landings there after a preparatory bombardment.

Given your orbital, air, and technical superiority you would have suffered only light casualties and been in a position to advance quickly on the cities.

Tried that, but marcao would IM me and insist on "balance"

and the nukes still would have reached my troops

Pablo Sanchez wrote:

frigidmagi wrote:This is just a personal opinion but I think you're overestimating the impact of Aly's causalities on his workforce.

I could be wrong however...

With populations up in the dozens of billions a few million able-bodied workers lost is a drop in the bucket.

More like a few hundred thousand.

Thirdfain wrote:

With populations up in the dozens of billions a few million able-bodied workers lost is a drop in the bucket.

Obviously, but vast militaryn incompotence and high losses for bad reasons do not go over well with the workforce. The losses aren't crippling, of course (Though you'll need to spend time reinforcing that fleet's troops if you plan on attacking another world with them,) but they look very bad to the voters.

It wont look particularly good no, but they arent squeamish. The military knew that they couldnt bombard the population centers this time. ANd again, we didnt loose millions.

If you can't figure out the assorted necessities of a clean, effective, and successful orbital assault, I'm not going to sit here and spell them out for you. Long story short, you vastly underestimated your enemy, and then attacked in almost the least effective way possible. You have fundamental doctorinal errors which will need modification if you wind up in more battles.

We did. But we arent going to nuke the population we are liberating

But landing troop transports on their heads is totally OK? Frankly, turning a person's backyard into a beachhead is as good as nuking them ourself.

Tried that, but marcao would IM me and insist on "balance"

Tried what? As far as I could see, you didin't do one thing Pablo just recommended.

You didn't.. Expect them.. To fight.

I'm sorry, Alyrium, this battle is officially going into the books as 'Most ridiculous botch outside of Laz'.

Tried what? As far as I could see, you didin't do one thing Pablo just recommended.

Because I edited many of the posts. He flat out said that "to preserve game balance capitalships cannot accuratly target in atmo otherwise ground battles become pointless" and said he would ignore such bombardment, though this was IIRC a month ago.

SirNitram wrote:You didn't.. Expect them.. To fight.

I'm sorry, Alyrium, this battle is officially going into the books as 'Most ridiculous botch outside of Laz'.

No, we never expeced them to actually stick around(the fleet). ground based military, sure.(what we didnt expect were shoulder mounted rockets that couldsomehow take out a starfighter or a heavily shielded transport.)

"to preserve game balance capitalships cannot accuratly target in atmo otherwise ground battles become pointless"

Exactly! You can't pick out enemy precision targets from orbit unless they either fire at you, or you go look at em with spotters. That doesn't mean you can't either land special forces to pick out targets, or carpet bomb areas until they are clean landing zones.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:

Tried what? As far as I could see, you didin't do one thing Pablo just recommended.

Because I edited many of the posts. He flat out said that "to preserve game balance capitalships cannot accuratly target in atmo otherwise ground battles become pointless" and said he would ignore such bombardment, though this was IIRC a month ago.

Funny, that certainly wasn't in effect during the Rape, in which capital ships entered atmosphere and began operating as artillery.

I should probably get around to typing up what Oni is going to be bringing on his vacation...

SirNitram wrote:

Alyrium Denryle wrote:

Tried what? As far as I could see, you didin't do one thing Pablo just recommended.

Because I edited many of the posts. He flat out said that "to preserve game balance capitalships cannot accuratly target in atmo otherwise ground battles become pointless" and said he would ignore such bombardment, though this was IIRC a month ago.

Funny, that certainly wasn't in effect during the Rape, in which capital ships entered atmosphere and began operating as artillery.

True, but I gave in, and now must tae my licks. Though still, lost less than a million men in that fight.

what we didnt expect were shoulder mounted rockets that couldsomehow take out a starfighter or a heavily shielded transport.)

What? Starfighters are A, poor choices for CAS in a round assault, and B, certainly viable targets for shoulder-mounted antiair weapons. Remember, this isn't Star Wars level tech where fighters mount megaton-range missiles and kiloton main guns, and have the shielding to defeat both.

Funny, that certainly wasn't in effect during the Rape, in which capital ships entered atmosphere and began operating as artillery.

Capships can target and destroy ground targets which are obvious (Large armor units on the open, shield generators, gun sites which have already opened fire.)

What marcao is referring to is the fact that you can't ust shoot out every enemy regiment, artillary peice, and defense gun sight from orbit before even setting foot on the world (assuming the defenders are remaining under cover, protected by ECM, and aren't firing back to reveal their positions.)

Thirdfain wrote:

Funny, that certainly wasn't in effect during the Rape, in which capital ships entered atmosphere and began operating as artillery.

Capships can target and destroy ground targets which are obvious (Large armor units on the open, shield generators, gun sites which have already opened fire.)

What marcao is referring to is the fact that you can't ust shoot out every enemy regiment, artillary peice, and defense gun sight from orbit before even setting foot on the world (assuming the defenders are remaining under cover, protected by ECM, and aren't firing back to reveal their positions.)

That's obvious enough. I had how many million robots on the turf to paint my targets?

You attacked in 4 waves, with a force totalling 3 million men. The first wave was wiped out almost to a man- that's 750,000 men dead in the first few minutes. Then, your landing sites with the second wave faced heavy nuclear and conventional bombardment in addition to antiair fire on their approach. I would say that losing another 250,000 over the next few minutes would not be far from the realm of possibility.

Spyder would you mind going through my ambassadors meeting?

frigidmagi wrote:Spyder would you mind going through my ambassadors meeting?

Your planet or mine?

Probably yours, what with his ambassador going to your world and all

Thirdfain wrote:Probably yours, what with his ambassador going to your world and all

Mine's also going to his incase you hadn't noticed

Thirdfain wrote:You attacked in 4 waves, with a force totalling 3 million men. The first wave was wiped out almost to a man- that's 750,000 men dead in the first few minutes. Then, your landing sites with the second wave faced heavy nuclear and conventional bombardment in addition to antiair fire on their approach. I would say that losing another 250,000 over the next few minutes would not be far from the realm of possibility.

That number included the 4 wave reserve. SO cut the number in half.

Thank you very much.

That number included the 4 wave reserve. SO cut the number in half.

the numbers differ, the point remains the same. After all, my news source implicitely said that their umbers were estimates

Your planet or mine?

Either or, your choice. Your Ambassador will be landing on Lastport, capital of the United Protectrates.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Because I edited many of the posts. He flat out said that "to preserve game balance capitalships cannot accuratly target in atmo otherwise ground battles become pointless" and said he would ignore such bombardment, though this was IIRC a month ago.

This is true, we can't allow people to hit point targets from orbit. However, certain things can be destroyed with less effort.

Hint:
Military headquarters are often the site of major wireless communications activity. Active transmitters are nice enough to make beacons of themselves and are easy to target, so drop some opfire on anything that's broadcasting communications. If it ends up being a civvy radio station or something, it's their own lookout (and anyway it would've been commandeered by the defenders anyway).

Alyrium Denryle wrote:out of a military core of over 10 billion people,

Wait a second... you're talking about a whole friggin planet worth of soldiers. With the U.S. ratio (1 Million fighting men/women to 300 million people) to armed forces 100 Billion people (~top pop of any nation in the STGOD, a lot larger then you) there would be ~33 million people total in your armed forces. Some nations would have larger ones (Hajr) some would have smaller ones (Gladshiemm,) and the proportional deployment of troops for most nations (some exceptions, like Monacora) would heavilly favor the Navy with their numbers.

Or to put it bluntly, THAT'S WAY TO FRIGGIN LARGE FOR A NATION'S ARMED FORCES! (Especially for a supposedly 'libertarian' nations Armed forces.)

Added detailed Hajr groundforce description to the OOB