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If we are in the middle of Diplomacy talk should we finish it in the old thread or just continue it in the Main.

Well, now that the main thread lives there seems to be some time I can put to tha game

phongn wrote:Well, now that the main thread lives there seems to be some time I can put to tha game

Feel like paying attention to the freighter that just showed up in your space?

Glimmervoid wrote:If we are in the middle of Diplomacy talk should we finish it in the old thread or just continue it in the Main.

If people want to wind up their diplomacy in the diplomacy thread then that's cool, but apart from that, doesn't matter really.

Mekidar Republic Map



Blue - Meklon, capital of the Republic. A heavily industrialized system, contains large shipyards.

Purple 1 - Svarga, homeworld of the Shindrashekhar. Heavily industrialized, large shipyards, and military academies.

Purple 2 - Nurus Secundus (aka Nurus), homeworld of the Homo Mekidaris. Major system, moderately industrialized, a disproportionate amount of service industries are headquartered here, medium shipyards.

Red 1 - Kymara

Red 2 - Nameribir

Red 3 - Mervaspol

Red systems have small shipyards and are lightly industrialized.

Large Black - Currently called Armaggeddon. Used to be a major Mekidar system with two terraformed and heavily industrialized planets. Devastated during the Great Wars. The ruins are nowdays used for Training and Live Fire Military Exercises. Because of this, the two planets are covered in extensive and intricate fortifications, trench systems, bunkers, tunnels, fortified urban terrain, and devastated cities. The only industry there is the ocassional rebuilding of destroyed urban terrain. Since the end of the Great Wars, the Republic's Armed Forces have kept a sharp edge by fighting, bleeding, and dying in these two worlds. Of course, the casualties are several orders of magnitude less than in real war.

Black - Systems that were destroyed or abandoned during the Great Wars. A handful of people have repopluated them, but not in meaningful quantities. The only revelant thing that occurs in these systems is resource collection.

The black systems probably won't be playing a role unless the game spans a few decades, in which case population growth will mean that they will become minor systems as Red 1-3 become majors.

Glimmervoid, I do believe the game could use an eensy little post from you, no?

Here's my assessment of the military situation in and around the Silver Flame:

You've just detected what can only be the arrival of a large fleet at the very boundaries of your territory. Exact numbers and so on you don't know, and it'll stay that way until either the fleet comes to you or you send out scouts. Neither side knows much about each other's weapons, defenses, or combat doctrine.

The Iron Fleet has one large disadvantage at this point- it only knows where Shearwater is. It'll need to scout the region more completely to find all your worlds, though the industrialised systems will be pretty obvious once the cruisers get close. The nature and breadth of your planetary defenses or combat fleet is unknown at this point, though that can be generally rectified by the deployment of scouts.

The Iron Fleet is deploying in a defensive formation, pickets out watching for trouble and weapons running hot. However, this is only a cautious step, and the ships have only the vaguest idea about where a preliminary attack would come from.

Let's get this dance underway, no?

I'm starting to get Earth-Mimbari War vibes from this nascent Crobuzon-Silver Flame conflict. I was expecting the Parliamentary Empire to be happy simply blasting everything in Shearwater, maybe also taking the planet, but now that they seem more inclined to go on a rampage of destruction... At least Crobuzon is unlikely to commit xenocide.

The capital units alone are worth more than the all of the Silver Flame's military. If his OOB added-up to 2000pts (it doesn't, he is 585pts short, I sent a PM to him about it), the Iron Fleet, including Civil Marines, would be worth 1.9 times his entire military. In short, the Silver Flame is at the mercy of Crobuzon, only a Benefactor-shaped miracle will save them now. Crobuzon simply backing down after taking an undeterminate amount of systems is also a possibility I suppose.

A couple of points:

Crobuzon is not about the genocide. I have absolutely zero intention of massacring any populations or even of occupying anything. I am all about negotiating peace and extending my sphere of influence with the minimal possible bloodshed.

Of course, the people of the Silver Flame won't know that.

Crobuzon has little idea what to expect from the Silver Flame as well, so I don't go into this knowing what sort of force I will be facing.

Of course, the people of the Silver Flame don't know that either.

However, you are absolutely right- Crobuzon is a LOT bigger than the Silver Flame, and outclasses them vastly in every military department. In any sort of straight-up fight, the Silver Flame would be trashed in short order.

However, straight up fights are rarely the right way to win anyhow.

-edit- By the way, inflicting even 20% casualties on the Iron Fleet would ammount to a general victory for the Silver Flame- they might lose the war as a whole, but the blow to the Empire's capabilities would drastically hurt it's chances in future large conflicts- not to mention, major defeats disrupt the admittedly fragile fabric of the essentially kleptocratic Parliamentary government. This isn't entirely without risk for me.

Misunderstandings make this fun.
Take my own situation for instance. By thier own means of thinking, the only reason for the Mekidar's stance on "sharing" systems is to get close enough to strike a death blow. There is no way aggressive hive races will be allowed anywhere near any of the core explored systems. On the other hand they don't want to start a war that, even if it is winnable, would allow the Gaians to come up and smash through from behind.
I, as the player, know that the chances of that are not 100% but my race wouldn't.

1: Miranda: Population 25 billion.
Defenses Ozymandius, 2 Guardians. The third most concentrated industrial base in the polity, as well as being what passes for an administrative hub, and the definitive site for internal trade in the eastern half of the territory.

2: Delnatha: Population 40 Billion and rising rapidly, as the Delnathans still have not adjusted to the changes in lifestyle brought about by the Raveners uplifting them, and are not being dicouraged from rapid breeding as there are a number of underdeveloped Venusian environments that would be suitable for them with little adjustment.
Defenses: 1 Guardian, two Delnathan fleet groups will always be here except in case of dire need.

3: Trantoria: Population 6 Billion(Delnathan). Delnatha's first interstellar colony, now approaching Delnatha as a rival in productivity
Defenses: 1 Guardian.

4: Lookshy: Population 16 Billion. The home base of the Exalted, as well as the manufacturer of 70+% of all major ground combat equipment. Defenses: 1 Guardian.

5: Midgard: Population 2 Billion. Recently subjugated, this is the forward base where Fafnir maintains the minimum administrative and logistical tail that their pride will not allow them to admit they can't do without.
Defenses: Wishful thinking, pride and ego. That and two points will buy you an escort.

6: Archimedes: Population 12 Billion. The largest and most signifigant of Bastion's holdings, as well as the Raveners most extensive shipbuilding facilities.
Defenses: 1 Guardian, and a one in three chance that Surtur will be laid up in the yard.

7: The Triangle: Population 11 Billion. Nominally a Bastion holding, and certainly one of their more impressive collections of facilities, but for practical purposes this system functions as the headquarters of the Buccaneers.
Defenses: 1 Guardian

For the rest, pick a square. On everything but the outermost edge it will likely contain a minor-moderate world, a fledgling Delnathan colony, or a primitive civilisation being rapdily dragged into interstellar affairs.

Thirdfain wrote:Crobuzon is not about the genocide. I have absolutely zero intention of massacring any populations or even of occupying anything.

I knew that, the reason why I said "Crobuzon is unlikely to commit xenocide" instead of "won't commit xenocide" is because there is only one nation here that I trust not to go on a mass murdering rampage. That being... er... nevermind. There is no nation in this game I trust not to go on a mass murdering rampage.

Though it appears that I did blow this statement: "The Iron Fleet has one large disadvantage at this point- it only knows where Shearwater is. It'll need to scout the region more completely to find all your worlds, though the industrialised systems will be pretty obvious once the cruisers get close." out of proportion. I was thinking that by saying that you were implying that Crobuzon inteded to horribly curbstomp the Silver Flame. As in, destroy everything (military) in every one of their systems.

Crobuzon has little idea what to expect from the Silver Flame as well, so I don't go into this knowing what sort of force I will be facing.

I guess that explains why they mobilized almost half of their armed forces (in terms of points).

I guess that explains why they mobilized almost half of their armed forces (in terms of points).

Better overkill than underkill, I always say...

Thirdfain wrote:

I guess that explains why they mobilized almost half of their armed forces (in terms of points).

Better overkill than underkill, I always say...

There is no such thing as overkill, only: "Open fire", and "I need to reload".

Adrian Laguna wrote:because there is only one nation here that I trust not to go on a mass murdering rampage. That being... er... nevermind. There is no nation in this game I trust not to go on a mass murdering rampage.

You are leaving out the guys too small to actually be ABLE to go on a mass murdering rampage

Adrian Laguna wrote:I knew that, the reason why I said "Crobuzon is unlikely to commit xenocide" instead of "won't commit xenocide" is because there is only one nation here that I trust not to go on a mass murdering rampage. That being... er... nevermind. There is no nation in this game I trust not to go on a mass murdering rampage.

Come now! We proud warriors of Hekartes will not mass murder!

If we did that, we would never get any new wives!

Stormin wrote:

Adrian Laguna wrote:because there is only one nation here that I trust not to go on a mass murdering rampage. That being... er... nevermind. There is no nation in this game I trust not to go on a mass murdering rampage.

You are leaving out the guys too small to actually be ABLE to go on a mass murdering rampage

Please, they can always hire out the work.


That reminds me, must make anonymous broadcast of mercenary intent to stir things up.

Try to see if your Raveners remember that a certain Mekidar Republic hired mercenaries in the past. My part of the cluster is short on people who will assist in wars of conqu-... pre-emptive defense.

Adrian Laguna wrote:Try to see if your Raveners remember that a certain Mekidar Republic hired mercenaries in the past. My part of the cluster is short on people who will assist in wars of conqu-... pre-emptive defense.

"Angry? Under-militarised? Oppressed by your neighbors? Want to give oppressing your neighbors a try? Just want to have a bunch of stuff blown up without paying the expense and having to wait for production lines and training centers to be brought online and finally start producing?

If any of these apply to you, or you just want to screw up your enemies' intel on the eve of battle, the Ravener Expeditionary Violent Extreme Looting Squadron can help. Easy terms available.Easy refers to the fact that signing over a few planets if you have todefault on the payment is a remarkable easy option compared to a full scale Ravener occupation of your homeworld. REVELS Inc. takes no responsibility for accusations of war crimes brought against your nation as a result of their operations while under contract, or just indiscriminately looting while passing through the area. Some restrictions may apply, not valid in the territory of a hostile Grand Power"

In short, the Silver Flame is at the mercy of Crobuzon, only a Benefactor-shaped miracle will save them now.

I hope no one's waiting for an armada of Concord battleships to suddenly break into normal space and confront the Crobuzon. That's not quite how it works.

Glimmervoid:

If you don't think you'll be able to make a post this week could you post here and let us know what's happening? If you're busy just let us know what you want to happen and we'll have someone else take over temporarilly so we can move the game along. If we don't hear from you, we'll just try to play the Silver Flame in whatever fashion gets the best outcome for it.

Anyway, while we're waiting for Glimmervoid we can just focus on the other events in the meantime.

Spyder wrote:I hope no one's waiting for an armada of Concord battleships to suddenly break into normal space and confront the Crobuzon. That's not quite how it works.

I was thinking more along the lines of an armada of delegates telling the Parliamentary Empire how beating-up the Quelectin over a lapse in judgment that only killed a few hundred people won't sit well with the budding international community.

Adrian Laguna wrote:

Spyder wrote:I hope no one's waiting for an armada of Concord battleships to suddenly break into normal space and confront the Crobuzon. That's not quite how it works.

I was thinking more along the lines of an armada of delegates telling the Parliamentary Empire how beating-up the Quelectin over a lapse in judgment that only killed a few hundred people won't sit well with the budding international community.

"...and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are."

Spyder wrote:

Adrian Laguna wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of an armada of delegates telling the Parliamentary Empire how beating-up the Quelectin over a lapse in judgment that only killed a few hundred people won't sit well with the budding international community.

"...and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are."

"You're busting my balls, Hans"

Adrian Laguna wrote: I was thinking more along the lines of an armada of delegates telling the Parliamentary Empire how beating-up the Quelectin over a lapse in judgment that only killed a few hundred people won't sit well with the budding international community.

Whew. *That* was fun to read.

I mean, what international community? The one which doesn't even know how to talk to me properly yet? Bah and more bah to that! The Sphere hasn't integrated nearly enough for something like that to happen, and if it did, it'd have precious little to show for it. I mean, what, an angry letter? And just you try telling an arrogant Grand power that a measly few barbarian lives isn't fair turnabout for the loss of a couple hundred civilized folk!

Stick to real diplomacy.

The only real way to show your displeasure is to have a fleet of battleships show up over someone's territory. Oh, wait, look at what TF's doing.