The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty One Up

[Formless]

Mind you, it's a bit different in the SalvationVerse, because there is a God, and he's an asshole. So I'd expect people in the SalvationVerse to make a bigger effort than I do. Still, habits die hard.

Wouldn't the fact that god is known to exist and an enemy of humanity make the phrase "oh God" have more power, not less?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Mind you, it's a bit different in the SalvationVerse, because there is a God, and he's an asshole. So I'd expect people in the SalvationVerse to make a bigger effort than I do. Still, habits die hard.

Wouldn't the fact that god is known to exist and an enemy of humanity make the phrase "oh God" have more power, not less?

No, because you don't really want his attention. It would be like shouting out 'OH SADDAM' at a bad moment.

[GrayAnderson]

Stuart has in fact posted three TBOverse chapters, 2 "Lion Resurgent" set in 1982 and 1 "Decimating the Diodachi" set in the immediate post the death of Alexander period.

Plus there have been admin issues at HPCA due to spammers that have occupied some of Stuart's time of late

What's HPCA?
[/ignoramus]

[Samuel]

http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3 ... eb97c4909e

Just a word of warning- it is a bit... far right.

[Jamesfirecat]

On the issue of cursing, there are people who swear with "Hell" at the moment, expect to see "God" used in a similar manner to that and to "f***" in that it's less about our asking a higher power to help us out of a jam and more about "how can this get worse" kind of swearing, so I think "God" would stick around at least until we've finished him off.

That said I do think we're likely to see "Hell" fall out of use as a swear word since it's not such a bad place anymore. Especially the saying "I'll see you in hell" which now as many has noted has an entirely different meaning in context.

[JBG]

http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3 ... eb97c4909e

Just a word of warning- it is a bit... far right.

Politics, and military history and technology, are far more a core theme to that Board than this. That Board is politically conservative and from what I've seen of this Board it is politically progressive. That does not prevent a number of people being long term members of both Boards and enjoying the non-political aspects.

I'd reject any "far-right" description therefore. Just a slightly different view on some things. My feeling is that there are different demographics represented. That could provide an interesting basis for further study.

[open_sketchbook]

Yes, slightly different view on things... that happen to be pretty far right compared to us.

I don't think you really understand, SD.net is (rightly) relentless in it's progressive views. Opinions are for people who can't be bothered to learn the facts.

[Baughn]

Or, as it has otherwise been put, "reality has a liberal bias". I don't think I agree with that particular line, but reality certainly isn't politically neutral.

[Darth Wong]

Or, as it has otherwise been put, "reality has a liberal bias". I don't think I agree with that particular line, but reality certainly isn't politically neutral.

Well, the history of western civilization has been a long but steady slide toward progressivism for many centuries now. A modern social conservative would be viewed as a flaming hippie liberal if you go back to the 1950s. So it's really not that unreasonable to say that reality tends to skew liberal, especially over time.

The trend hasn't changed much; surveys of voters found that younger people were far more likely to accept gay marriage than older people. The population is still trending liberal over time.

Similarly, the so-called "liberal" positions on things like drug laws and "tough on crime" sentencing and "abstinence only" sex education have all been borne out by research: drug laws aren't helping a damned thing, "tough on crime" sentencing actually results in higher recidivism, and "abstinence only" sex education actually results in higher teen pregnancy. It's a Stephen Colbert joke to say that reality has a liberal bias, but that doesn't mean one can't make a completely serious case for it.

Of course, there's always nuclear power, which is the conservatives' big return-shot on this issue. But that's just one, and quite frankly, that's a lot like Bill Maher: a case of someone who might occasionally be right but who invariably uses horrendously broken reasoning to get there. In this case, I don't believe for a moment that the sort of person who shits on science at every turn, actually believed tobacco company bullshit, and thinks evolution is a hoax will suddenly find new reverence for it when it happens to be a nuclear scientist; they just know that the big power corporations say it's good, and they'll take that on faith.

[JN1]

http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3 ... eb97c4909e

Just a word of warning- it is a bit... far right.

I'd reject any "far-right" description therefore. Just a slightly different view on some things. My feeling is that there are different demographics represented. That could provide an interesting basis for further study.

I'd agree with that, the majority of the membership is conservative with a small 'c', but there is still room for those who are more liberal, or centrist.
In my experience the left, as much as the right, does occasionally change facts to fit their political beliefs. It's probably a common human trait.

[usagihunter101]

So, if I'm to read between the lines...

All of us progressives over here should go sign up on the much more conservative TBO forums, in order to dramatically shift the political spectrum towards blue?

I actually did a similar thing in highschool with the Republican Club. Managed to triple the membership in about a week. Unfortunately the poll's showed that the Republican Club now favored John Kerry by about 2-1. To be honest, though, they were really good sports about it.

[Lonestar]

So, if I'm to read between the lines...

All of us progressives over here should go sign up on the much more conservative TBO forums, in order to dramatically shift the political spectrum towards blue?

I actually did a similar thing in highschool with the Republican Club. Managed to triple the membership in about a week. Unfortunately the poll's showed that the Republican Club now favored John Kerry by about 2-1. To be honest, though, they were really good sports about it.

No. I am not a moderator, but advocating board invasions isn't really a good idea here.

[Gil Hamilton]

I'd reject any "far-right" description therefore. Just a slightly different view on some things. My feeling is that there are different demographics represented. That could provide an interesting basis for further study.

You reject any "far-right" description when I just clicked on the above link, picked a thread at random, and read over a discussion about how "the Left" is inevitably totalitarian in nature and wants to twist everyone to their ideals?

[usagihunter101]

No. I am not a moderator, but advocating board invasions isn't really a good idea here.

Not sure I'd really call that a board invasion, all things considering. More of a cross-pollination of political viewpoints across boards with a common interest in an author.

Then again, I've always had a knack for euphemism.

[JBG]

I'd reject any "far-right" description therefore. Just a slightly different view on some things. My feeling is that there are different demographics represented. That could provide an interesting basis for further study.

You reject any "far-right" description when I just clicked on the above link, picked a thread at random, and read over a discussion about how "the Left" is inevitably totalitarian in nature and wants to twist everyone to their ideals?

Yes, I do reject "far-right" as a description of that forum.

Or is this forum "far-left" because someone refers to "right wing morons"?

The cross membership of the forums is based on an interest in writing and reading fiction. In that regard there are a number of long standing members of both boards who have little interest in political slanging matches. So far it has mostly worked pretty well. I'd prefer that it stayed that way.

[Gil Hamilton]

Yes, I do reject "far-right" as a description of that forum.

Or is this forum "far-left" because someone refers to "right wing morons"?

The cross membership of the forums is based on an interest in writing and reading fiction. In that regard there are a number of long standing members of both boards who have little interest in political slanging matches. So far it has mostly worked pretty well. I'd prefer that it stayed that way.

If you can pull up a thread index, close your eyes, randomly pick a thread, and not only have someone refer to right wing morons, but everyone referring to right wing morons, then I would agree. "Far right" or "far left" is a matter of statistics. If you have a majority of the voice of a forum be deeply conservative, then it isn't a stretch to call the forum deeply conservative. This applies to liberal forums as well. I can do the above experiment with HPCA. Hell, I can do it to a lesser degree with SD.net too in the other direction.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and overwhelmingly declares that Oh My God Those Secular Liberal Dungrats are Trying to Enslave America like a duck, then it's probably a duck. That's by no means a moral judgement on the board, it's just what it is.

[JBG]

Yes, I do reject "far-right" as a description of that forum.

Or is this forum "far-left" because someone refers to "right wing morons"?

The cross membership of the forums is based on an interest in writing and reading fiction. In that regard there are a number of long standing members of both boards who have little interest in political slanging matches. So far it has mostly worked pretty well. I'd prefer that it stayed that way.

If you can pull up a thread index, close your eyes, randomly pick a thread, and not only have someone refer to right wing morons, but everyone referring to right wing morons, then I would agree. "Far right" or "far left" is a matter of statistics. If you have a majority of the voice of a forum be deeply conservative, then it isn't a stretch to call the forum deeply conservative. This applies to liberal forums as well. I can do the above experiment with HPCA. Hell, I can do it to a lesser degree with SD.net too in the other direction.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and overwhelmingly declares that Oh My God Those Secular Liberal Dungrats are Trying to Enslave America like a duck, then it's probably a duck. That's by no means a moral judgement on the board, it's just what it is.

OK, so we have gone from "far right" and "right wing morons" to "deeply conservative"!!!

You have ducks to corral so I'll leave you to it.

[Emerson33260]

OK, so we have gone from "far right" and "right wing morons" to "deeply conservative"!!!

"We" didn't go anyplace. The phrase "right wing morons" with regard to the HPCA forum appears only in your posts. If you will clarify what difference you perceive between "far right" and "deeply conservative," I may be able to determine what you have been trying to say.

[Gil Hamilton]

OK, so we have gone from "far right" and "right wing morons" to "deeply conservative"!!!

You have ducks to corral so I'll leave you to it.

Far Right and Deeply Conservative are the same thing and the only person who said "right wing morons" was you. I'm not passing a moral judgement one way or another as to whether it is good or bad that HPCA has a far right population, I'm merely pointing to the results of sampling threads at random and gauging their political character, then suggesting that it isn't mere statistical clustering as to what I'm seeing. I'm not exactly sure what you are finding offensive here, that's like getting pissed at someone for saying that a pyrite sample sure has alot of iron in it.

[JN1]

Must say that I've always been a happy member of HPCA and I'm certainly not a conservative. I enjoy TBO and the other fiction, and the political debates, even if I don't agree with all of them.

[Darth Wong]

Interjection: I'd say there's a difference between "far right" and "deeply conservative" in the sense that "far right" implies that they're "radical extremists", in the real sense of the term (where it implies outright hatred of the opposition rather than merely thinking they're wrong or even stupid), not the FOXNews sense of the term where it's applied to anyone you disagree with.

[Jamesfirecat]

Here's a fun thought experiment, correct me if I'm wrong, but in another 24 hours, it will be three full weeks since Salvation War last updated, at least I think it will, all this not updating of Salvation War is screwing with my ability to properly measure time as nothing of importance seems to be happening...

[GrayAnderson]

Interjection: I'd say there's a difference between "far right" and "deeply conservative" in the sense that "far right" implies that they're "radical extremists", in the real sense of the term (where it implies outright hatred of the opposition rather than merely thinking they're wrong or even stupid), not the FOXNews sense of the term where it's applied to anyone you disagree with.

In some sense, the difference is also between "extremely disinclined to change" and "trying to turn the clock back". Even that isn't a good peg, though...but it's a decent way to put the point. Even some degree of reaction is arguably conservative in some regards (for example, a Burkean who feels that the country has gone the wrong way in some regard).

By the way, that is roughly where I fall on the spectrum...but then again I'm an odd mixture of views that make me hard to pin down politically.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Here's a fun thought experiment, correct me if I'm wrong, but in another 24 hours, it will be three full weeks since Salvation War last updated, at least I think it will, all this not updating of Salvation War is screwing with my ability to properly measure time as nothing of importance seems to be happening...

Stuart gets into moods. He's in a TBO mood at the moment, so go read that.

[MondoMage]

Stuart gets into moods. He's in a TBO mood at the moment, so go read that.

Not to sound too much like a newb know-nothing, but where exactly does one find it? I tried following the HCPA link listed elsewhere and looking around from there, but didn't see it.