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The BMP-3 fleet has been upgraded to be a lot more capable than the original 1987 model, however (new FCS etc, though the proliferation of the Bakhcha-U turret among the fleet versus simply improved II sights with the PL-1 laser searchlight is up for debate - the BMP-3s at the 2008 victory parade were all of the latter kind).

I'm presuming its still something of a nightmare for the troops in the back to dismount. Having to open two sets of doors and clamber between two sets of fuel cells and the radiator can hardly be easy, especially when compared to most IFVs.
I don't really understand the design philosophy behind an IFV that makes life hard for its passengers.

JN1 wrote: I don't really understand the design philosophy behind an IFV that makes life hard for its passengers.

Designing a truly satisfactory IFV is freaking impossible, so every last design in the world has at least one glaring shortfall, usually more then that. You just don’t find any IFVs around that have all around excellence. The ones with good seating usually have very little armament to show for all the effort.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

JN1 wrote: I don't really understand the design philosophy behind an IFV that makes life hard for its passengers.

Designing a truly satisfactory IFV is freaking impossible, so every last design in the world has at least one glaring shortfall, usually more then that. You just don’t find any IFVs around that have all around excellence. The ones with good seating usually have very little armament to show for all the effort.

You're right, but vehicles like the Bradley and Warrior, while a bit cramped in the rear, don't force the troops to surmount an obstacle course to debus.
To my untrained eye the BMP-3 does not look like an improvement over the BMP-2, except, perhaps, in armament.

The somewhat awkward dismount can be overcome with training - these Greek Cypriot troops don't seem to have too much trouble dismounting:-

Link

There was something more graceful about that than troops charging out the back of an M2. Graceful, but still clowncar-ish.

Vympel wrote: Woah. Huge overestimate there. The Russians have a few hundred BMP-3s at best - most of them being the ones produced from 1987. Production recently restarted at around a few dozen a year in recent years so Kurganmashzavod is much more happy lately.

That few? Guess what I was reading had a decimal place wrong, but that seems extremely low considering the basic design is from the 1970s and a factory was running for four solid years. As for that Greek video, only six guys dismount, suggesting that like the Bradley seven men is the vehicles infantry capacity only on paper. I’d bet one the bow machine gunner postions is packed full of gear and ammo.

Sea Skimmer wrote: That few? Guess what I was reading had a decimal place wrong, but that seems extremely low considering the basic design is from the 1970s and a factory was running for four solid years.

Yeah, I've seen a completely unsubstantiated ~1,500 range figure for the BMP-3, but in reality it's only from ~100 to ~300 vehicles, at this stage, according to sources/websites I've seen. This is also borne out by anecdotally looking at all the media about the Russian Army since 1991 - if there were really 1,500 BMP-3s, they wouldn't be so damn hard to find in pictures/ video - I personally always knew they were rare compared to the BMP-2 horde that makes up the backbone of the Army's ICV force.

I imagine that at that stage of the USSR's history that an advanced vehicle like the BMP-3 (really leaps and bounds ahead of the BMP-2 in terms of it's fire control technology, by USSR standards) just couldn't get in production up to speed quick enough before the collapse. And perhaps BMP-2s were still being produced by Kurganmashzavod, I'm not sure when Russian production of the BMP-2 stopped, if it ever did before 1991.

Vympel wrote:The somewhat awkward dismount can be overcome with training - these Greek Cypriot troops don't seem to have too much trouble dismounting:

To me it looks like those doors could use a power-assist mechanism. It'd shave two to three seconds off the deployment and it would avoid the need for an infantryman (and the vehicle) to stand around for another two to three seconds closing the doors.

If the Federation is starting a crash military buildup project -as Stewart hinted at much earlier in this fic- I wonder how much BMP-3 production could be ramped up...

T-90, Tu-160, SU-27 production as well for that matter.

Chris, dude, his name's "Stuart," not "Stewart [from SDI]"

Chris OFarrell wrote:If the Federation is starting a crash military buildup project -as Stewart hinted at much earlier in this fic- I wonder how much BMP-3 production could be ramped up...

The difficulty is skilled personnel. After 18 years of post-Cold War, mostly export-oriented low-volume orders and the usual refit/ upgrade work operating its time, Kurganmashzavod could only dream of churning out hundreds of vehicles a month.

T-90

That'd be relatively bloody easy. Uralvagonzavod has been very busy ages, what with the T-90S being one of the most successful export tanks in the world lately.

Considering the nature of this war, I imagine they'd decide that refitting/ upgrading their existing vehicle park might be more effective, reaping more immediate benefits, than focusing on churning out new T-90s. Omsktransmash would be very busy I imagine knocking old tanks back into shape and sending them to the front (it'd be foolish to put UVZ on that job, since it would dilute the T-90 line).

Really, they could pull a T-55 or T-62 out of reserve stocks, give it a once over to make sure it's in working order, do what has to be done, maybe fit it with some minor improvements, and send it on its way, no problem. No need to go crazy with the upgrading.

(for example, it's standard practice when say a T-72B goes in for overhaul/repair that the old engine is swapped out for a 1,000hp V-92S2 like that on the T-90A and the more sophisticated T-72 upgrades, along with other relatively cheap improvements)

They could also cannibalize the largely decommed (except for training tanks) T-64 fleet and get a portion back on the roster, or alternatively, talk with Ukraine about sending spares.

Tu-160

Would be hard to get a lot more production volume, but I imagine the commercial work KAPO is doing at the moment would immediately stop and all hands on deck for Tu-160s (their commercial work is what's slowing Tu-160 production after all).

SU-27 production as well for that matter.

Piece of piss. Irkut and KNAAPO are busy as all hell and have been for the past decade churning out Su-30s, they could easily ramp up.

Vympel, what about Su-25s? I am not aware that they are still in production as I have only been hearing about upgrades. A fine CAS aircraft and probably better able to defend itself against demonic flyers than the A-10 as it is faster and against all but the biggest ( transport aircraft size and above ) demonic flyers the twin 23mm is a better solution than the 30mm rotary barrel cannon in the A-10.

Are the Su-24s up to date or should Su-34 production be ramped up? Those, with the F-111, are the best pure strike bombers available ( and we aussies can't provide all the pure strike bombers - we don't have enough and it would take the USAF some time to be able to field squadrons of its own from AMARC, assuming we didn't take all of the best spares out of them! )?

BTW, can you recommend good web-sites, in English, for modern Russian weaponry?

Su-34 clearly, it is a superior machine. And technically even the older Russian stockpile weaponry is more than enough to destroy most of the creatures in daemonic hordes; unless it's not yet all we have seen

JBG wrote:Vympel, what about Su-25s? I am not aware that they are still in production as I have only been hearing about upgrades. A fine CAS aircraft and probably better able to defend itself against demonic flyers than the A-10 as it is faster and against all but the biggest ( transport aircraft size and above ) demonic flyers the twin 23mm is a better solution than the 30mm rotary barrel cannon in the A-10.

The Su-25 has a twin 30mm, not a twin 23mm. However, it could pack 23mm gunpods, but these aren't intended for air-to-air work. The relatively simple gunsight setup of the basic Su-25 (no real HUD) would make leading the target somewhat more difficult than it should be. It's really optimised for ground attack.

Otherwise, the Su-25 is out of production - however Ulan-Ude is capable of building the Su-25UB, Su-25T and Su-25TM/Su-39, if required.

(Ulan-Ude was responsible for Su-25UB production during the USSR - the single-seat variant was built in Georgia, though Ulan-Ude could build single-seaters if they really wanted to)

The Su-25UBM upgrade prototype is actually a completely new-build aircraft - it may indicate VVS intent to build new ones, since there really was no need to do so (the Su-25SM prototype and series aircraft were all upgrades of existing aircraft in service).

Are the Su-24s up to date or should Su-34 production be ramped up? Those, with the F-111, are the best pure strike bombers available ( and we aussies can't provide all the pure strike bombers - we don't have enough and it would take the USAF some time to be able to field squadrons of its own from AMARC, assuming we didn't take all of the best spares out of them! )?

NAPO (Su-34 manufacturer) has just undertaken plant upgrades that allows it to build up to 20 Su-34s simultaneously, and upgrade many more Su-24s to Su-24M2 standard (NAPO's also responsible for that) simultaneously. They could do both (as far as the VVS is concerned they must - only 5 Su-34s are slated for delivery this year after all).

However, the standard Su-24/M should be fine for this war, really. The Su-24M2 brings increased accuracy to the table and other cheap but effective improvements. Same as the Su-25SM really.

BTW, can you recommend good web-sites, in English, for modern Russian weaponry?

Not really All the good ones are gone, or paysites.

I'm starting to get the shakes from withdrawal symptoms.

Darth Wong wrote:I'm starting to get the shakes from withdrawal symptoms.

Your not the only one.

DarthShady wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:I'm starting to get the shakes from withdrawal symptoms.

Your not the only one.

Thirded. I suspect we'll be getting new Armageddon today or tomorrow. call it gut feeling.

Oh, and Stuart, think we can see a water-based attack on, say, New Orleans?

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:

DarthShady wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:I'm starting to get the shakes from withdrawal symptoms.

Your not the only one.

Thirded. I suspect we'll be getting new Armageddon today or tomorrow. call it gut feeling.

Oh, and Stuart, think we can see a water-based attack on, say, New Orleans?

Me too!

Muuuustt...have...moooore!!! None of my favorite fanfics got updated this weekend, and the withdrawl is killing me!

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Thirded. I suspect we'll be getting new Armageddon today or tomorrow. call it gut feeling.

Stuart is probably out playing with his new toy.

think we can see a water-based attack on, say, New Orleans?

Only if Belial and Dagon have a power brunch in Cafe Dis.

Starglider wrote:

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Thirded. I suspect we'll be getting new Armageddon today or tomorrow. call it gut feeling.

Stuart is probably out playing with his new toy.

New toy?

Starglider wrote:

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:think we can see a water-based attack on, say, New Orleans?

Only if Belial and Dagon have a power brunch in Cafe Dis.

Who knows? I'm also sure someone can arrange a Permanent Hurricane using a Hellmouth as well.

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:New toy?

I took delivery of a silver 2008 Corvette Convertible Saturday. She's beautiful.

Some new parts of Armageddon coming up shortly.

You bastard. I thought this was an update.

clone1051 wrote:You bastard. I thought this was an update.

I change the part number at the head of the thread every time a new section goes up to help people distinguise between new additions to the story and discussion of existing parts.

By the way. Spoiler Alert. The GM plant at Bowling Green, Kentucky is permanently off limits to sudden, violent ends.

Stuart wrote:

clone1051 wrote:You bastard. I thought this was an update.

I change the part number at the head of the thread every time a new section goes up to help people distinguise between new additions to the story and discussion of existing parts.

By the way. Spoiler Alert. The GM plant at Bowling Green, Kentucky is permanently off limits to sudden, violent ends.

Wait, what? Why? Does someone you know work there?

Edit: Speaking of hellmouth hurricanes, if Hell is able to open a portal underwater and get a large enough surface area of seawater to 100 farenheit, we could see a hypercane spawn. Those suckers are downright unfriendly.