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Mr Bean wrote:*Duplicate post deleted above
A "Wing" is a real world term, it refers to twelve squadrons of twelve or one hundred and forty-four planes.

Wing is a real world term. However, it refers to a variable number of squadrons of a variable number of planes.
Example: The 1 FW of the USAF has 2 squadrons of F-22, and 1 squadrons of F-15, totalling 58 aircraft. The 509 BW has 2 squadrons of B-2, totalling 19 aircraft.

Beowulf, KDY would like to start a potential profitable arrangement with Sienar Fleet Systems. Are you going to move things a little?

How do fighter upgrades work? Say I want to use Avengers and Scimitars on my ships, instead of TIEs, TIE interceptors, TIE bombers, Assault Gunboats, Skipray Blastboats, etc. Pay the difference in cost listed for them? (so TIE and TIE/In are standard, and Avenger is heavy, so I pay 1 pt extra/wing. Ditto the bombers?)

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Beowulf, KDY would like to start a potential profitable arrangement with Sienar Fleet Systems. Are you going to move things a little?

Yeah, I'll get moving soon. If, say, you want to sell Victories with SFS starfighters already on board, I'm sure we can probably assume some sort of arrangement already exists...

Beowulf wrote:How do fighter upgrades work? Say I want to use Avengers and Scimitars on my ships, instead of TIEs, TIE interceptors, TIE bombers, Assault Gunboats, Skipray Blastboats, etc. Pay the difference in cost listed for them? (so TIE and TIE/In are standard, and Avenger is heavy, so I pay 1 pt extra/wing. Ditto the bombers?)

You pay the full cost for new wings.

Coyote wrote:There has to be some good, logical, in-story plot for a planet to join. Some build-up, some context-- and the larger and more powerful a planet is, the more work it should be. I could see an abandoned Colony joining up with minor formalities for the protection offered, but powerful worlds can dictate their own terms and are probably being courted by others. But even Colonies will have misgivings if they fear being "swallowed up/dominated" by powers they don't have much in common with. For example, would a former Republic colony happily join an Imperial faction? Probably not, unless they are being attacked and crumbling.

Let's see some role-play with Ambassadors, trade offers, and actual effort put into it, please.

To be entirely fair, Giju was the site of a massacre by Imperial forces, Yag'Dhul had its shipyards destroyed as punishment for going along with the CIS during the Clone Wars, and Pelagon was the target of the Imperial-backed Mecetti Purge.

The way I see things, only the Giju Herglics would want to join up with the League right off the bat. As you can see in my latest story post, the Kinyen Gran (I wouldn't know about the Gran in Hok or Malastare) are very suspicious of a martially-styled confederacy asking them to join up, the Givin are exceedingly obtuse (and obsessed with their maths; they're practically an entire species of Sho Minamimotos, and my ham-handed TWEWY reference only serves to drive that point further), and House Pelagia and their allies in House Caadrian would like to see Mecetti Province wiped off the star map before they can consider joining the League.

Needless to say, much to learn about the greater galaxy, Field Marshal Simon does.

Thanas wrote:

Beowulf wrote:How do fighter upgrades work? Say I want to use Avengers and Scimitars on my ships, instead of TIEs, TIE interceptors, TIE bombers, Assault Gunboats, Skipray Blastboats, etc. Pay the difference in cost listed for them? (so TIE and TIE/In are standard, and Avenger is heavy, so I pay 1 pt extra/wing. Ditto the bombers?)

You pay the full cost for new wings.

I mean at game start. The ships would never have the TIEs that are being upgraded from. Obviously if I do this after OOBs are finalized, I have to pay full cost for new wings.

Beowulf wrote:I mean at game start. The ships would never have the TIEs that are being upgraded from. Obviously if I do this after OOBs are finalized, I have to pay full cost for new wings.

Ah, sorry for misunderstanding you.

In that case, sure, paying the difference is fine.

Note self need to update OOB, however Myrky post is up.

As an aside, I will desing several NPC factions. These will be reviewed by the mods and then posted in the OOB thread.

Remember - deals with NPCs do not give you any bonus whatsoever.

It's been a busy weekend but I managed to get a few answers up.

More on that and other things, soon...Monday probably.

Could we get the rule-set page to refer to "Wing" being 72 fighters? If that's the number we are using for it, would help to have it in the thread. http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 5&t=134359

Fighter wings are now set at 72, plus a few other errors, omissions and updates seen to on the rulesets.


EDIT: also, to all who have sent ambassadors or diplomats to Naboo, allow me some time to go through and set up meetings to discuss trade and the like. I just had a very, very busy "day off".

Thread updated per Coyote's request
My OOB updated, my Capital ships are kicking nothing but Avengers and Scimitars. I did not pay the difference but bought the fighters outright.

I'm going to put a write-up about Admiral Rowan ransacking the core for all remaining advanced squadrons and stuffing the spares into freighters when he fled from the core itself to set up as his own power. Included in that are ten squadrons of TIE Defenders and a pair of TIE Phantom squadrons.

Okay my rather long winded ceremonial post is up. If there are no problems to it then good.
Siege: if you don't mind I am playing a little loose with time so that it is your ambassador the VAdm had to respond to.

And yes the unrest on Balmorra will be a long running theme.

Beowulf wrote:How do fighter upgrades work? Say I want to use Avengers and Scimitars on my ships, instead of TIEs, TIE interceptors, TIE bombers, Assault Gunboats, Skipray Blastboats, etc. Pay the difference in cost listed for them? (so TIE and TIE/In are standard, and Avenger is heavy, so I pay 1 pt extra/wing. Ditto the bombers?)

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Beowulf, KDY would like to start a potential profitable arrangement with Sienar Fleet Systems. Are you going to move things a little?

Yeah, I'll get moving soon. If, say, you want to sell Victories with SFS starfighters already on board, I'm sure we can probably assume some sort of arrangement already exists...

Actually, I was thinking of research arrangements, like a cheaper TIE Defender, smaller gravity well projectors etc.

The TIE Defender is an excellent long range craft, but its size and cost are hindrances to its mass adoption.

OK my response is up and edited for tonight. Detailing my new ship class, two diplomatic responses
And afootness! For there are things afoot!

Speaking of which who am I forgetting diplomatic wise, the CP is not in a diplomatic sending mood quite yet so any ambassadors came to us for the moment. Not for any real reason except I've not had time and my fleet has been busy.

What sort of penalties does one pay to have Avengers and Scimitars at the start? Add 1 point per ship or?

I originally intended the TIE Interceptors and TIE Fighters to continue flying more as local garrisons; i.e. the ship squadrons get transferred planet side.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:What sort of penalties does one pay to have Avengers and Scimitars at the start? Add 1 point per ship or?

Originally it was 1 point, but now I am not sure as that is way too low a cost. I'll talk it over with Coyote, most likely we'll end up at a +2 penalty.

I originally intended the TIE Interceptors and TIE Fighters to continue flying more as local garrisons; i.e. the ship squadrons get transferred planet side.

In that case you'd have to pay the full wing.

Also, remember that you have to pay defensive upkeep for any extra wing attached to a planet. (1/4th of production costs).

Thanas wrote:In that case you'd have to pay the full wing.

Also, remember that you have to pay defensive upkeep for any extra wing attached to a planet. (1/4th of production costs).

Ok, this is getting confusing. So if I replace the fighters on the ships, how does one calculate the upkeep of the ship and the new fighters as a whole?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Thanas wrote:In that case you'd have to pay the full wing.

Also, remember that you have to pay defensive upkeep for any extra wing attached to a planet. (1/4th of production costs).

Ok, this is getting confusing. So if I replace the fighters on the ships, how does one calculate the upkeep of the ship and the new fighters as a whole?

I think the easiest way is this: if you're upgrading the fighters, then they will replace the initial loadout. Those no longer exist. But if you want to use the initial loadout for something else while having upgraded fighters on the ships, you pay full price for the upgraded fighters, as the initial loadout still exists.

So for example:
Spoiler Spoiler Does that make it any easier to understand?

Two thumbs up for RogueIce. Well done.

And, if you want to always have "Advanced Fighters" on your ship as initial loadout (as I assume when you build a new ISD or whatever, they'll come with fighters) it would be counted as a subsystem upgrade (Hangers? Whatever) so you'd have to go through the research process. Jusitified I think in that the requirements of deploying TIE fighters is a different from the requirements of deploying TIE Avengers (or whatever other swap you make) in terms of launch racks, maintainence, hanger space, etc.

EDIT: Ignore this. Just pay the upgrade cost, as Thanas indicated in his reply below.

RogueIce wrote:And, if you want to always have "Advanced Fighters" on your ship as initial loadout (as I assume when you build a new ISD or whatever, they'll come with fighters) it would be counted as a subsystem upgrade (Hangers? Whatever) so you'd have to go through the research process. Jusitified I think in that the requirements of deploying TIE fighters is a different from the requirements of deploying TIE Avengers (or whatever other swap you make) in terms of launch racks, maintainence, hanger space, etc.

Nah. Not with standard IMP fighters. Now, if you want to field X-Wings, then yes. But if you want to build new ships with more advanced fighters, just pay the upgrade cost.

RogueIce wrote:And, if you want to always have "Advanced Fighters" on your ship as initial loadout (as I assume when you build a new ISD or whatever, they'll come with fighters) it would be counted as a subsystem upgrade (Hangers? Whatever) so you'd have to go through the research process. Jusitified I think in that the requirements of deploying TIE fighters is a different from the requirements of deploying TIE Avengers (or whatever other swap you make) in terms of launch racks, maintainence, hanger space, etc.

Eh? I don't recall any need to modify any ISD to deploy any of the newer TIEs. The only difference is spare parts, which you have to pay for them in the form of maintenance cost anyway.

On an added note, since we haven't decided that bit about the change in load-out, I'll wait a while more before posting the budget.