bilateralrope wrote: 2017-11-20 07:35am - Fuck ending seasons on a cliffhanger. Especially when they wrap up the plot of the episode, then use the cliffhanger to start the next one.
Agreed. Ending the season on a cliffhanger is a mixed decision at best, even when you're doing it to present a genuinely two-part episode (e.g Best of Both Worlds)
- How did they know that Klingon ships can't use shields while cloaked ?
Physics? It may well be that shields inherently emit radiation that can be seen from a great distance. Ships in the series usually know when other ships start to raise shields, after all... So that it becomes conceivable that a cloaked ship could raise shields and not be detectable, for the same reason it's inconceivable that a sneaky ninja creeping into your fortress could be playing a tuba while doing so.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-20 08:27am
by bilateralrope
Simon_Jester wrote: 2017-11-20 08:03am
Ending the season on a cliffhanger is a mixed decision at best, even when you're doing it to present a genuinely two-part episode (e.g Best of Both Worlds)
Since you bring up Best of Both Worlds, I have a question: Did the STD writers know where they were going with this cliffhanger when they wrote it ?
Or do they have no idea, just like Best of Both Worlds ?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-20 08:52am
by Crazedwraith
This a mid-season finale right? Not the end of Series 1 as a whole iirc?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-20 12:24pm
by Crossroads Inc.
Ok..... SO I get the feeling most of the others here saw BOTH PARTS Of that last episode long before I did.
The post I made was after seeing just the first half, with them ending with the aliens sending the single "inviting" everyone.
Mostly my comment was in guessing the whole "living planet" in the first 15 seconds of the episode.
I was wondering why everyone is talking about "alt universes" and I kept wondering if I was missing something... Up until I saw the 2nd part of the season finally.
so, consider some of the my nitpicks satisfied for now.
I'd still say story telling was a bit of a mess, but hey, not as bad as I first thought.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-20 12:29pm
by bilateralrope
Crossroads Inc. wrote: 2017-11-20 12:24pm
Ok..... SO I get the feeling most of the others here saw BOTH PARTS Of that last episode long before I did.
It wasn't a two parter. It was two episodes:
- "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" released on Nov 5
- "Into the Forest I Go" released on Nov 12
Crazedwraith wrote: 2017-11-20 08:52am
This a mid-season finale right? Not the end of Series 1 as a whole iirc?
Checking wikipedia, it appears to be a mid-season break. For a 15 episode season. We have seen the first 9, the remaining 6 will start airing January 7.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-20 05:15pm
by Prometheus Unbound
bilateralrope wrote: 2017-11-20 07:35am - Fuck ending seasons on a cliffhanger. Especially when they wrap up the plot of the episode, then use the cliffhanger to start the next one.
Agreed. Ending the season on a cliffhanger is a mixed decision at best, even when you're doing it to present a genuinely two-part episode (e.g Best of Both Worlds)
The season hasn't ended. This is a break in airing. When it resumes, it's still season one. There's about 16-20 episodes per season. They had a choice of doing it all at once (as was done in the past) - or cutting it in two (10 episodes (2.5 months) - 2.5 month break - 10 episodes (2.5 months)). This allows them to do more post production on the 2nd half so pressures are not so great to get "stuff done".
I mean, you can dislike cliffhangers, but there's been like 23 of them in Star Trek (TOS, ST3, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) - to say nothing of 90% of scifi TV shows - Bab 5, X-Files, Star Wars (ESB, AotC, TFA), Lexx, Atlantis, SG1, Doctor Who, The Matrix Reloaded, heck even The Outer Limits managed it.
Dislike them all you want, but having that as a negative against Star Trek Discovery is disingenuous at best. I'm also not counting Enterprise season 3 and DS9's Final Chapter.
TBH, Discovery feels, story wise, kinda like Enterprise season 3. A few "single" episodes, little wasted and a larger arc.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-20 11:24pm
by bilateralrope
The difference between other cliffhangers and STDs cliffhanger is that those cliffhangers (at least those I remember) had a plot split across two episodes. STD wrapped up the plot of this episode then started the plot of the next episode with the jump going wrong.
End of season/half season cliffhangers are something I hate in a lot of shows, not something wrong with STD in particular. They feel like the shows producers are worried that people won't come back after the break. Though the worst I've seen are shows where:
- Cliffhanger happens at the end of the season. There is no next season
- Cliffhanger at the end of season. The next season picks up somewhere else.
I doubt STD is going down either of those routes.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-22 05:19am
by Darth Lucifer
There's a Discovery easter egg in the final episode of the fan production "Star Trek Continues." Spoiler
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-22 10:10am
by Batman
I wondered if anybody else noticed
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-30 03:54pm
by amigocabal
Mange wrote: 2017-10-03 12:23am
* The Federation uses hard labor? TOS established that criminals were treated and TNG never mentioned prisons.
Both VOY and DS9 referred to prisons.
Mange wrote: 2017-10-03 12:23am
* The spore drive... In the words of the dying Captain Kirk: "Oh my!"
Given the speed of the spore drive, how will they reconcile it with Star Trek: Voyager?
Mange wrote: 2017-10-03 12:23am
* The Federation uses hard labor? TOS established that criminals were treated and TNG never mentioned prisons.
Both VOY and DS9 referred to prisons.
Mange wrote: 2017-10-03 12:23am
* The spore drive... In the words of the dying Captain Kirk: "Oh my!"
Given the speed of the spore drive, how will they reconcile it with Star Trek: Voyager?
seeing how badly the Spore drive "beats up" the "navigator" (for a lack of a better term in both cases), I suspect that the spore drive will be declared too dangerous to use and the Crossfield class will be the only Starfleet class to have used it. It'll be like the Soliton wave drive from TNG a promicing project that was ultimately deemed too impractical to impliment on a larger scale.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-30 04:28pm
by Batman
Since there's no fucking way this is Prime Timeline Trek I wonder why people worry about it but they DID muse about creating an AI navigator so that shouldn't be an unsurmountable problem
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-30 06:05pm
by Darth Lucifer
The obstacle they had to overcome was that Stamets tried to use software but was only able to achieve small jumps.
TILLY: Can't we build a virtual Ripper? Trick the mycelium into thinking it's communicating with the real thing, then navigate the ship that way?
STAMETS: That's what I was doing with my earlier research. Trying to use software to engage with the network.
BURNHAM: You were only able to achieve small jumps.
STAMETS: See, now I know why. The spores and the drive were functioning at a fraction of their capacity until we presented the mycelium with an animate copilot. That's the key. The Tardigrade's alive. We just need to integrate the same sequence into a compatible species. One that understands its role in this process and engages willingly.
TILLY: You guys, this is so fucking cool. (nervous laugh) I'm so sorry.
STAMETS: No, cadet. It is fucking cool.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-30 06:25pm
by Batman
Computers are fast. So you have to do a ridiculously large number of ridiculously short jumps to get from A to B. Unless this makes the spore drive SLOWER than Warp. I could live with that. And that's assuming this can't be improved on with an AI 'navigator'
Mange wrote: 2017-10-03 12:23am
* The Federation uses hard labor? TOS established that criminals were treated and TNG never mentioned prisons.
Both VOY and DS9 referred to prisons.
Mange wrote: 2017-10-03 12:23am
* The spore drive... In the words of the dying Captain Kirk: "Oh my!"
Given the speed of the spore drive, how will they reconcile it with Star Trek: Voyager?
seeing how badly the Spore drive "beats up" the "navigator" (for a lack of a better term in both cases), I suspect that the spore drive will be declared too dangerous to use and the Crossfield class will be the only Starfleet class to have used it. It'll be like the Soliton wave drive from TNG a promicing project that was ultimately deemed too impractical to impliment on a larger scale.
Yes, we know from canon that Captain Janeway rejected any ideas of using the spore drive for seven years.
(Of course, in the "Endgame" timeline, it is possible that Janeway used a spore drive to traverse a significant chunk of the Beta Quadrant.)
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-11-30 08:45pm
by Lord Revan
Seriously though it's highly unlikely that Janeway would even known about sporedrive except as minor curiosity. Also the Crossfield class (aka USS Discovery and her class mates) seems to have been built around using the sporedrive rather then having been modified after the fact.
Just because a starfleet ship used a certain drive system doesn't mean every later starfleet ships are capable of being easily modified to use that system, especially if said system has been deemed "not worth the cost" by Starfleet HQ.
Oh speaking about making short (essentially blind) in rapid succession didn't the accident with the USS Glen come about from them essentially doing a blind jump?
And that's assuming the plans of the Sporedrive survive (in a useble form) into the 23rd century to begin with.
Mange wrote: 2017-10-03 12:23am
* The Federation uses hard labor? TOS established that criminals were treated and TNG never mentioned prisons.
Both VOY and DS9 referred to prisons.
You can have prisons without using the prisoners as slave labour. Such prisons would be better at preventing reoffending.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-12-01 07:28pm
by Darth Lucifer
Lord Revan wrote: 2017-11-30 08:45pmOh speaking about making short (essentially blind) in rapid succession didn't the accident with the USS Glen come about from them essentially doing a blind jump?
Apparently, Discovery's sister ship had the accident because they were trying to make too large of a jump.
STAMETS: By the way, 12 is a perfectly robust number, Straal. Where's the Glenn?
STRAAL: Speirein 240.
STAMETS: I hate you. How?
STRAAL: A recent breakthrough.
STAMETS: I hate you. How?
STRAAL: All I can say is there are unexpected benefits to not growing your own. Right now, we have to finish getting ready. Tonight we're going for Speirein 900.
STAMETS: That's not possible.
STRAAL: Don't be like that. You're one of my oldest friends. We've been working on this for 12 years. When we succeed, both our names are going on the Zee-Magnees Prize.
STAMETS: I'm not jealous, oddly. I'm worried. That displacement is too massive. It's not safe.
STRAAL: It is now. I worked out the kinks. Lurker...
Lord Revan wrote: 2017-11-30 08:45pmOh speaking about making short (essentially blind) in rapid succession didn't the accident with the USS Glen come about from them essentially doing a blind jump?
Apparently, Discovery's sister ship had the accident because they were trying to make too large of a jump.
STAMETS: By the way, 12 is a perfectly robust number, Straal. Where's the Glenn?
STRAAL: Speirein 240.
STAMETS: I hate you. How?
STRAAL: A recent breakthrough.
STAMETS: I hate you. How?
STRAAL: All I can say is there are unexpected benefits to not growing your own. Right now, we have to finish getting ready. Tonight we're going for Speirein 900.
STAMETS: That's not possible.
STRAAL: Don't be like that. You're one of my oldest friends. We've been working on this for 12 years. When we succeed, both our names are going on the Zee-Magnees Prize.
STAMETS: I'm not jealous, oddly. I'm worried. That displacement is too massive. It's not safe.
STRAAL: It is now. I worked out the kinks. Lurker...
that's the ship I was referring to I wasn't sure if it was spelled with 2 "n" or just 1.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2017-12-03 04:18pm
by amigocabal
I was wondering if the mycelial network was the reason the Hobus Supernova was able to destroy Romulus in Star Trek (2009).
Even if the galaxy-wide network was shattered by the time of TOS, and remained shattered as of 2387, there could still have been remnants as wide as 100 ly in the galaxy. It is possible that there was a hypha running directly between Hobus and Romulus. Some of the destructive energy from the supernova could have traveled along this hypha and destroyed Romulus.
Mange wrote: 2017-10-03 12:23am
* The Federation uses hard labor? TOS established that criminals were treated and TNG never mentioned prisons.
Both VOY and DS9 referred to prisons.
Here's a thought:
In TOS, prisoners seem to be few, and criminality resulting from mental instability is treated. While, in the core worlds, at least, there's likely little motive for criminality out of desperation or greed, given Federation society (things may be different on the fringe- see Harry Mudd, for example).
I would posit, therefore, that prisons like we see Tom Paris in at the start of Voyager, or Eddington in on DS9, are perhaps primarily used for prisoners of war, or those who committed political crimes such as espionage or treason. This fits both Tom Paris (betrayed the Federation to the Marquis) and Eddington (likewise). Or the Vorta prisoner on DS9, a prisoner of war.
This could also explain an increase in prisons as the Federation moved from the largely peaceful post-TOS to TNG eras, to the major wars of the DS9/Voyager era.
Would the canon evidence fit this conclusion, do you think?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2018-01-08 07:12am
by tezunegari
I just watched Episode 10 "Despite Yourself"
It was predictable.
Spoiler
They are in the Mirror Universe. Ensign Conners returns and is the Captain of the Shenzhou. Tilly is the Captain of the Discovery and she has some nice monikers. They are trapped there but exactly where they wanted to go. They learn about the Empire and a possible way home (The Constitution class Defiant that Archer stole from the Tholians)
Burnham. Tyler and Lorca are undercover onthe Shenzhou to get access to restricted files about the Defiant .(Burnham is the Captain of the Shenzhou and Lorca is her captive because he tried to kill the Emperor, so he gets to spend some quality time in an agony booth.)
Tyler is not Tyler and apparently human body tissue is indisdinguishable from human tissue.. because now they find out how terrible his torture really was.
(How much of their medical technology is automated?)
Stupidity is in Dr. Culvers hands... and it ends predictably lethal.
Oh and the Mirror Universe uniforms are black instead of blue and the Captains have a strange breastplate...
Unfortunatelly they did the unforgivable: They reimagined the Constitution and what they have shown looks shit.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2018-01-08 11:56am
by Prometheus Unbound
tezunegari wrote: 2018-01-08 07:12am
Unfortunatelly they did the unforgivable: They reimagined the Constitution and what they have shown looks shit.[/spoiler]
No, they haven't - they've followed established canon - that USS Defiant is from 100 years in the past (from their POV). It has been heavily modified and had extra weapons etc put on it in the century since it appeared in that timeline. You didn't see a Constitution class starship, you saw 100 years of Terren Empire retrofitting (something we know the Connies underwent) and experiments on a wire frame model of a constitution class star ship.
tezunegari wrote: 2018-01-08 07:12am
Unfortunatelly they did the unforgivable: They reimagined the Constitution and what they have shown looks shit.[/spoiler]
No, they haven't - they've followed established canon - that USS Defiant is from 100 years in the past (from their POV). It has been heavily modified and had extra weapons etc put on it in the century since it appeared in that timeline. You didn't see a Constitution class starship, you saw 100 years of Terren Empire retrofitting (something we know the Connies underwent) and experiments on a wire frame model of a constitution class star ship.
My money is on a reimagined version of the Constituion class... not a retrofitted Defiant.
Why would they need to retrofit the Defiant? The ship and it's technology was already 100 years ahead of what they had.
The Terran Empire was using the Defiant to reverse engineer the Constitutions which they apparently achieved in the same time as the Original Universe, despite the headstart.
The current Emperor is a faceless and savage ruler. I predict they make Ash Tyler the Emperor.
Why did a klingon fighter have the equivalent of Wikipedia on it's harddrive?!
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2018-01-08 12:48pm
by Simon_Jester
Do we have any pictures of the mutant pseudo-Connie? I haven't been following Discovery, but I'm curious.
