Scarlet-Spider vs Jedi

[KK]

Oh right, Spidey makes no attempt whatsoever to move from a fixed spot.

Now you're getting it.

Besides, you still have no evidence for his speed, since you cannot estimate velocity from a fixed frame which describes an unspecified time period.

So even though in the Thor fight he was drawn as a cyclone and Thor couldn't even see him, we should just assume he was waltzing around in time-lapse photography?

And when he gets shot at by a guy holding an Uzi in each hand, and he contorts his body so that the bulets go harmlessly under his armits, between his legs, to the side of his head, to the left, to the right, above, and below without ever moving his body out of the aim of the gun, we just assume the bullets were special slow-motion bullets?

And when he is shown punching an opponent several times before the opponent is able to move a muscle, we assume the opponent had fallen asleep?

[Crossover_Maniac]

Do I have to keep posting this until you actually see that a Jedi doesn't A) need to use a force choke to defeat Spiderman and B) show a Jedi can use TK on a living person?

Nice example. Now show us where Talon Car'das is strong enough to pick up a greyhound bus and can dodge laser and gun fire while cracking jokes.

I don't need to you dumb ass. If we can't use Force Chokes because; 'Yoda said', then we get to use 'Size matters not' i.e. mass matters not ergo Force matters not, hence strength matters not, because Yoda said so.

Concession Accepted.

How does it feel when your own rules work against you?

I believe you people call this a no-limits fallacy. Otherwise, if size didn't matter, Yoda would have crushed the Death Star like an orange. A more reasonable explanation was that Luke was underestimating his abilities to use the Force, and Yoda was demonstrating that his own mindset was limiting him.

[Darth Wong]

So even though in the Thor fight he was drawn as a cyclone and Thor couldn't even see him, we should just assume he was waltzing around in time-lapse photography?

Since a single frame often lasts long enough for people to make whole speeches, I don't see why not. What makes you say Thor couldn't see him? He was looking at him, wasn't he?

And when he gets shot at by a guy holding an Uzi in each hand, and he contorts his body so that the bulets go harmlessly under his armits, between his legs, to the side of his head, to the left, to the right, above, and below without ever moving his body out of the aim of the gun, we just assume the bullets were special slow-motion bullets?

No, we observe that the bullets were spaced much farther apart than they would be in real-life, in order to make this possible.

And when he is shown punching an opponent several times before the opponent is able to move a muscle, we assume the opponent had fallen asleep?

I have seen real fights where one guy gets in several punches before the other stupefied guy can react. This hardly means he will somehow evade TK.

[Darth Wong]

I don't need to you dumb ass. If we can't use Force Chokes because; 'Yoda said', then we get to use 'Size matters not' i.e. mass matters not ergo Force matters not, hence strength matters not, because Yoda said so.

Concession Accepted.

How does it feel when your own rules work against you?

I believe you people call this a no-limits fallacy. Otherwise, if size didn't matter, Yoda would have crushed the Death Star like an orange.

You're a moron. He was saying the OPPOSITE of what you think he was saying. He was agreeing that this is a fallacy, and trying to get you to see that mindlessly literal interpretation of Yoda's dialogue leads to stupidity. You win the idiot award of the day for refuting a point that is the precise opposite of the one your opponent was making.

[KK]

The Jedi ability to use the Force inexplicably began to diminish. This, coupled with increasing violence in the galaxy sparked by a Separatist movement overburdened the valiant protectors. Their ranks were spread thin trying to maintain the peace, and many Jedi fell during the crisis. When it came to war, and the first shots of the Clone Wars were fired on Geonosis, only a scant 200 Jedi were readily available for the conflict. Most of this taskforce was killed in the battle, but reinforcements, in the form of the Republic's new military, secured a victory against the Separatists."

What's interesting to me is why anyone would think combat powers would even be considered in the equation to begin with. The Jedi use the Force for knowledge and defense, not for attack, remember?

The Mace Windu line may as well read, "I think it's time we told the Senate that our ability to use the Force for knowledge and defense has diminished."

Once they're in a war situation, they might end up using the force to attack, but it's not part of their general fundamental charter.

[KK]

You're a moron. He was saying the OPPOSITE of what you think he was saying. He was agreeing that this is a fallacy, and trying to get you to see that mindlessly literal interpretation of Yoda's dialogue leads to stupidity. You win the idiot award of the day for refuting a point that is the precise opposite of the one your opponent was making.

Characters tatements of fact vs. character rhetoric.

Yoda spouting out an age-old bit of rhetoric like "size matters not, judge me by my size, would you?" is not the same as Yoda giving a direct answer to Luke when asked about the difference between the light side and dark side.

This is some of that basic Literature 101 stuff I was talking about earlier.

[Crossover_Maniac]

As for this the Dark Side diminished all of our Jedi power crap, had the dialogue between Mace Windu and Yoda went like this, you would have a valid point:

Yoda: Remembered good old days, I do. Used to knock starships out of their orbit we could. Now we lose to non-Force users with rocket packs and grapling hooks.

Mace Windu: I'll inform the Senate our ability to use the Force has been diminished.

It's funny that neither Mace nor Yoda notice the Jedi's ability to use the Force was diminished until after they found out about the Clone Army that was hidden from them for tens years.

They knew about it long before that scene, you idiot.

Then why did Yoda acted so surprised that they didn't sense it in the first place? "Blind we were not to see this Clone Army" was what he said wasn't it. Does that sound like they noticed something was wrong?

What part of the starwars.com description escaped your attention? Their numbers have been dwindling from attrition for quite some time already. They are weakened, which is why they're getting KILLED! Why do you think they were only able to assemble a couple of hundred Jedi for the Battle of Geonosis? Are you totally reading-disabled?

We're not talking about the quantity of Jedi but the quality. You're argument has been that the Jedi's ability to use the Force overall has diminished and not just their ability to forsee the future, which was their most powerful assess. There were no noticable change in their other abilities that would have tipped Yoda and Windu off to the shoud of the Dark Side except the loss of their ability to forsee the future. Besides, Palpatine, the source of the Jedi's diminishing Force abilities, couldn't have caused the number of Jedi to diminish unless he's a lot older than he looks. This dwindling in numbers has been over a longer period of time than Palpatine was using the Dark Side.

[Crown]

I don't need to you dumb ass. If we can't use Force Chokes because; 'Yoda said', then we get to use 'Size matters not' i.e. mass matters not ergo Force matters not, hence strength matters not, because Yoda said so.

Concession Accepted.

How does it feel when your own rules work against you?

I believe you people call this a no-limits fallacy. Otherwise, if size didn't matter, Yoda would have crushed the Death Star like an orange. A more reasonable explanation was that Luke was underestimating his abilities to use the Force, and Yoda was demonstrating that his own mindset was limiting him.

You are correct ....

<logic game show>*Ding* *Ding* *Ding*

We have a winner Bob, tell him what he has won!

Well Dave, out lucky contestant gets an all expenses paid vacation at the exclusice Island Resort of 'Logic Island' where he will be taught how to expand upon his critical rational logic thinking to his own posts!</logic game show>

The fact that you admit that dialogue in cannon movies cannot be taken as gospel fact and extended to absurd limits, means that there has to be a logical limit to them. Ergo, just like I can't calim 'Size matters not' to infer that Yoda wasn't really moving the X-Wing, but really movind Dagobah as an example of Jedi TK powers, you cannot claim the quote 'A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defence, never for attack' to mean that any use of TK on a living person is inherinetly offensive, when it could be a defensive measure, all be it fatal to the opponent! Do you get it now?

EDIT:: Mike beat me to it.

[Crown]

You're a moron. He was saying the OPPOSITE of what you think he was saying. He was agreeing that this is a fallacy, and trying to get you to see that mindlessly literal interpretation of Yoda's dialogue leads to stupidity. You win the idiot award of the day for refuting a point that is the precise opposite of the one your opponent was making.

Characters tatements of fact vs. character rhetoric.

Yoda spouting out an age-old bit of rhetoric like "size matters not, judge me by my size, would you?" is not the same as Yoda giving a direct answer to Luke when asked about the difference between the light side and dark side.

This is some of that basic Literature 101 stuff I was talking about earlier.

Bullshit. Both statements were made during Luke's training. Both were made as part of his training. When Luke said 'I don't believe it', and Yoda replied 'that is why you fail', was that rhetoric or a direct answer to Luke's question?

[Crossover_Maniac]

I don't need to you dumb ass. If we can't use Force Chokes because; 'Yoda said', then we get to use 'Size matters not' i.e. mass matters not ergo Force matters not, hence strength matters not, because Yoda said so.

Concession Accepted.

How does it feel when your own rules work against you?

I believe you people call this a no-limits fallacy. Otherwise, if size didn't matter, Yoda would have crushed the Death Star like an orange.

You're a moron. He was saying the OPPOSITE of what you think he was saying. He was agreeing that this is a fallacy, and trying to get you to see that mindlessly literal interpretation of Yoda's dialogue leads to stupidity. You win the idiot award of the day for refuting a point that is the precise opposite of the one your opponent was making.

He claimed I was saying Yoda told Luke not to use Force-choke and that I was basing it on what he told Luke about only using the Force for defense. I never based my claim of no Force-chokes on Yoda's statement. The 'no Force-choke' rule is the official EU canon. Maybe if you didn't rot your brain on Luke/Leia incest porn, you would have noticed that. I think you deserve that idiot of the day award more than me.

[Dillon]

Then why did Yoda acted so surprised that they didn't sense it in the first place? "Blind we were not to see this Clone Army" was what he said wasn't it. Does that sound like they noticed something was wrong?

Perhaps, because they weren't aware that their ability to use the force had diminished so much that they couldn't sense that an army composed of 200'000 beings had been created.

We're not talking about the quantity of Jedi but the quality. You're argument has been that the Jedi's ability to use the Force overall has diminished and not just their ability to forsee the future, which was their most powerful assess. There were no noticable change in their other abilities that would have tipped Yoda and Windu off to the shoud of the Dark Side except the loss of their ability to forsee the future. Besides, Palpatine, the source of the Jedi's diminishing Force abilities, couldn't have caused the number of Jedi to diminish unless he's a lot older than he looks. This dwindling in numbers has been over a longer period of time than Palpatine was using the Dark Side.

There were other noticable changes, especially in their combat abilities.

Notice Obi-Wan easily being taken down by a Destroyer Droid in AOTC, when him and Qui-Gon were easily able to defend against two of them that had shields in TPM?

Notice how during the battle arena scene, the Jedi that went to attack Dooku was shot down by Jango?

And Yoda said their ability to use the FORCE was diminishing, all their combat abilities are from the force, therefore if their ability to use the force has diminished, then so have all their abilities that require use of the force, not just their abilitiy to see the future.

[Crossover_Maniac]

I don't need to you dumb ass. If we can't use Force Chokes because; 'Yoda said', then we get to use 'Size matters not' i.e. mass matters not ergo Force matters not, hence strength matters not, because Yoda said so.

Concession Accepted.

How does it feel when your own rules work against you?

I believe you people call this a no-limits fallacy. Otherwise, if size didn't matter, Yoda would have crushed the Death Star like an orange. A more reasonable explanation was that Luke was underestimating his abilities to use the Force, and Yoda was demonstrating that his own mindset was limiting him.

You are correct ....

<logic game show>*Ding* *Ding* *Ding*

We have a winner Bob, tell him what he has won!

Well Dave, out lucky contestant gets an all expenses paid vacation at the exclusice Island Resort of 'Logic Island' where he will be taught how to expand upon his critical rational logic thinking to his own posts!</logic game show>

The fact that you admit that dialogue in cannon movies cannot be taken as gospel fact and extended to absurd limits, means that there has to be a logical limit to them. Ergo, just like I can't calim 'Size matters not' to infer that Yoda wasn't really moving the X-Wing, but really movind Dagobah as an example of Jedi TK powers, you cannot claim the quote 'A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defence, never for attack' to mean that any use of TK on a living person is inherinetly offensive, when it could be a defensive measure, all be it fatal to the opponent! Do you get it now?

EDIT:: Mike beat me to it.

And if I based my 'no Force-choke' rule argument off that one piece of dialogue, your post would have meant something. I'm basing it off the official EU canon, the same EU canon you used to argue that Palpatine can swat super stardestroyers like flies and Jedi padawans can toss fleets of ISD's out of a star system using the magic Sith Temple of power wanking.

[KK]

Since a single frame often lasts long enough for people to make whole speeches, I don't see why not. What makes you say Thor couldn't see him? He was looking at him, wasn't he?

No.



Look at the next to last panel. Spider-Man is nothing more than blur lines. After the first panel, you don't even see him.

No, we observe that the bullets were spaced much farther apart than they would be in real-life, in order to make this possible.

Do we now?

I have seen real fights where one guy gets in several punches before the other stupefied guy can react. This hardly means he will somehow evade TK.

If you're telling me you've seen fights in real life that looked like this:



Then you're lying to yourself.

Or do you think Hulk was just posing for the camera while Spidey took his sweet ass time attacking?



Or how about if we go ahead and analyze thing the way you do?



The Absorbing Man is swinging his ball & chain around, as can be seen by the motion lines. However, Spider-Man is shown in 8 different positions as his ball & chain hasn't moved.

If you want to get nit-picky about the text, you can say that the picture was one instant in time while the dialogue took longer than what was shown in the picture. But you can't say that the picture shows several instants piled on top of each other, since the ball & chain is only shown in one position compared to Spidey's eight.

Frankly that's unnecessary with the text, since we've seen scenes where people say speeches in what *had to* be an extremely short ammount of time. That's just how comics are.


Or we could ask onlookers to tell us what his speed looks like.



"His attack is so sudden, his moves so blindingly fast, it's hard to tell what's happening."

It's kind of hard to say his speed in combat isn't as good as it looks when it has been described as being hard to even make out what's going on.

[KK]

Bullshit. Both statements were made during Luke's training. Both were made as part of his training. When Luke said 'I don't believe it', and Yoda replied 'that is why you fail', was that rhetoric or a direct answer to Luke's question?

You guys should realize your failed attempts at comprehending what you read is as annyong to me as it would be to you if somebody came in and bitchered third grade math and tried to pass it off as analytical trigonometry.

"Jedi only use the force for knowledge and defense" is a direct statement.
"Size doesn't matter" is rhetoric, and a fairly commonly used piece of rhetoric at that.

This is so basic it's not funny.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Then why did Yoda acted so surprised that they didn't sense it in the first place? "Blind we were not to see this Clone Army" was what he said wasn't it. Does that sound like they noticed something was wrong?

Perhaps, because they weren't aware that their ability to use the force had diminished so much that they couldn't sense that an army composed of 200'000 beings had been created.

And didn't notice that their Jedi knights were slowly deteroirating into pansies over a period of at least ten years if not longer?

We're not talking about the quantity of Jedi but the quality. You're argument has been that the Jedi's ability to use the Force overall has diminished and not just their ability to forsee the future, which was their most powerful assess. There were no noticable change in their other abilities that would have tipped Yoda and Windu off to the shoud of the Dark Side except the loss of their ability to forsee the future. Besides, Palpatine, the source of the Jedi's diminishing Force abilities, couldn't have caused the number of Jedi to diminish unless he's a lot older than he looks. This dwindling in numbers has been over a longer period of time than Palpatine was using the Dark Side.

There were other noticable changes, especially in their combat abilities.

Notice Obi-Wan easily being taken down by a Destroyer Droid in AOTC, when him and Qui-Gon were easily able to defend against two of them that had shields in TPM?

Obi-Wan was also caught by surprise while he was talking to Anakin. Using Force powers, including precognition, requires a certain amount of concentration. Not keeping your mind on what's going on around you doesn't help.

Notice how during the battle arena scene, the Jedi that went to attack Dooku was shot down by Jango?

Even precognition isn't perfect. Also the Jedi was going after Dooku and was caught off guard by Jango and still managed to block two of his shots with the third being partially blocked and hitting him in the shoulder giving Jango an opening for a fourth shot.

And Yoda said their ability to use the FORCE was diminishing, all their combat abilities are from the force, therefore if their ability to use the force has diminished, then so have all their abilities that require use of the force, not just their abilitiy to see the future.

Their use of the Force includes forseeing the future. If I'm going blind and I said my senses have been diminished, does that mean my other four senses are gone.

[Crown]

And if I based my 'no Force-choke' rule argument off that one piece of dialogue, your post would have meant something. I'm basing it off the official EU canon, the same EU canon you used to argue that Palpatine can swat super stardestroyers like flies and Jedi padawans can toss fleets of ISD's out of a star system using the magic Sith Temple of power wanking.

Ohhh, then it was all my mis-understanding when you asked me to provide another an example when another Jedi has demonstrated TK abilities like Yoda's? Because if you had been basing your 'no Force choke argument' on EU, then you wouldn't need an example of Jedi TK power; like hurning large boulders, and ripping appart Tie Fighters to hurl the components (Courtship of Princess Leia), like holding up an avalanche by a fucking padawan in order to rescue his people, like hurling SD light years away (Jedi academy Trilogy), like Luke knowing he could reach out and twist hundreds of people's minds, and rip space ships apart (Thrawn duology), like Luke re-building Vader's sanctuary with the force alone, and demonstrating his ability to use the Force to levitate Han while he had an extended conversation with him (Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy)?

Yes, then I guess I am sorry ...

[Crown]

Bullshit. Both statements were made during Luke's training. Both were made as part of his training. When Luke said 'I don't believe it', and Yoda replied 'that is why you fail', was that rhetoric or a direct answer to Luke's question?

You guys should realize your failed attempts at comprehending what you read is as annyong to me as it would be to you if somebody came in and bitchered third grade math and tried to pass it off as analytical trigonometry.

"Jedi only use the force for knowledge and defense" is a direct statement.
"Size doesn't matter" is rhetoric, and a fairly commonly used piece of rhetoric at that.

This is so basic it's not funny.

And, 'That is why you fail' is rhetoric, or a direct statement? Stop distorting evidence cunt.

[KK]

And, 'That is why you fail' is rhetoric, or a direct statement? Stop distorting evidence cunt.

Be more relevant.

[Dillon]

Snip completely long winded drivel

It's kind of hard to say his speed in combat isn't as good as it looks when it has been described as being hard to even make out what's going on.

It doesn't matter, Spider-Man can have a reaction speed of 0.000000000000000001 seconds, and it still won't matter, he still sees an attack coming AFTER it has been launched, where as the whole idea of precog is that the Jedi can see the attack BEFORE it has been launced.

Why do you have so much trouble comprehending this simple concept?

[Crown]

And, 'That is why you fail' is rhetoric, or a direct statement? Stop distorting evidence cunt.

Be more relevant.

You must be smoking crack.

[KK]

It doesn't matter, Spider-Man can have a reaction speed of 0.000000000000000001 seconds, and it still won't matter, he still sees an attack coming AFTER it has been launched, where as the whole idea of precog is that the Jedi can see the attack BEFORE it has been launced.

Why do you have so much trouble comprehending this simple concept?

It's like I'm talking to a brick wall.

A brick wall with a Jedi's dick in its ass.

Spider-Man's reaction time is the speed at which he responds TO HIS OWN FORM OF PRECOGNITION!!!!!!!!!

[KK]

Damn, there's no size 50. Anything less than that and it would be ignored for the 100th time.

[KK]

You must be smoking crack.

Better than smoking Wong's cock.



And be more relevant.

[Dillon]

Their use of the Force includes forseeing the future. If I'm going blind and I said my senses have been diminished, does that mean my other four senses are gone.

If you're going blind, and you say your senses are diminishing, which implies all your senses, then you're a moron and need to retake elementary school English.

[Crossover_Maniac]

And if I based my 'no Force-choke' rule argument off that one piece of dialogue, your post would have meant something. I'm basing it off the official EU canon, the same EU canon you used to argue that Palpatine can swat super stardestroyers like flies and Jedi padawans can toss fleets of ISD's out of a star system using the magic Sith Temple of power wanking.

Ohhh, then it was all my mis-understanding when you asked me to provide another an example when another Jedi has demonstrated TK abilities like Yoda's? Because if you had been basing your 'no Force choke argument' on EU, then you wouldn't need an example of Jedi TK power; like hurning large boulders, and ripping appart Tie Fighters to hurl the components (Courtship of Princess Leia), like holding up an avalanche by a fucking padawan in order to rescue his people, like hurling SD light years away (Jedi academy Trilogy), like Luke knowing he could reach out and twist hundreds of people's minds, and rip space ships apart (Thrawn duology), like Luke re-building Vader's sanctuary with the force alone, and demonstrating his ability to use the Force to levitate Han while he had an extended conversation with him (Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy)?

Yes, then I guess I am sorry ...

Since you love using all of these examples out of the EU, then you wouldn't mind using the rest of the EU canon and concede that a Jedi can't Force-choke. And we'll insist on using Firelord-stomping, Spider-Man, which means Spider-Man's punches are more powerful than the forces generated by blackholes, which doesn't even phase Firelord.