StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Hmm...okay, then, how about this one?

Operating System
Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium
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Memory
4 GB DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz (2 DIMMs)
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Hard Disk Drive
320 GB SATA Hard Drive (5400 RPM)
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Video
256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT
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Web Camera
Integrated 2.0 Mega Pixel Web Camera
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Network Interface Card
Dell 1505 Wireless-N
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Software Upgrade
64BIT Operating System DVD
Microsoft Works 9.0
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Hardware Upgrade
6 Cell Primary Battery
90W AC Adapter
Dell Travel Remote Control
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Certified Refurbished
Certified Refurbished
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Laptop Screen
15.4 WXGA Laptop Screen Display with TrueLife
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Media Bay
Blu-ray Disc Drive (BD/DVD/CD burner w/double layer BD write capability)
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Base
XPS M1530 Laptop: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T8100 (2.1GHz/800Mhz FSB, 3MB Cache)
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Bluetooth Wireless
Bluetooth Wireless Card 355
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System Color
Tuxedo Black

I guess given that this is a used laptop, it's fine. Though the usual caveat emptor applies.

Okay - so I did it. Should be here next week. With any luck, I'll be back spreading idiocy with my chatizen friends soon!

Well, I don't have it yet, but I just paid for my stuff in full. It'll be arriving at the end of next week and I will set it up.

Processor: Intel i7 920 2.66GHz
RAM: DDR3 Tri-Channel 1600MHz, 6GB
Motherboard: ASUS P6T Deluxe
Graphics Card: Nvidia 9800GTX 512MB
Storage: 2x Western Digital 500GB Hard Disks (total 1TB)
Operating System: FreeBSD 64, Windows Vista 64 bit
Power Supply: ULTRA 40064 Modular 1000 watt
Case: Thermaltake Spedo
CPU Heat Sink: Cooler Master Z600R
Optical: 2x Sony 8xDVD writers

More than enough power to run finite element analysis, make my 3D renderings and graphics, act as a server for my files, and run computer games.

You've already bought that machine, but here are some general thoughts:

• What's with the 1kW PSU? It's complete overkill.
• The 9800GTX seems a little underpowered for a machine otherwise this powerful

phongn wrote:

• What's with the 1kW PSU? It's complete overkill.

Thanks. The kilowatt power supply I figured I might be able to reuse later, along with my case and CPU radiator and fans. Well, okay, in retrospect I guess maybe, yeah, maybe a bit too much. But thanks. I'll keep that in mind for next time.

phongn wrote: [*]The 9800GTX seems a little underpowered for a machine otherwise this powerful[/list]

Yeah, I guess. I suppose I could add another if this one won't cut it. In theory my motherboard can support three, but because the 9800 card is such a massive brick, I'm guessing I will only be able to add two. Well, I'll check out how the single 9800GTX performs in the games once I get it and install Vista. If it's not enough I can pick up another.

Davey wrote: Yeah, I guess. I suppose I could add another if this one won't cut it. In theory my motherboard can support three, but because the 9800 card is such a massive brick, I'm guessing I will only be able to add two. Well, I'll check out how the single 9800GTX performs in the games once I get it and install Vista. If it's not enough I can pick up another.

You're planning on SLI? That's rather silly unless you have bricks of cash to spend, it's usually much better to invest in a single good card, SLI doesn't offer twice the performance.

An R4870 probably would've been a fine match for this system.

Davey wrote: Storage: 2x Western Digital 500GB Hard Disks (total 1TB)

[nitpick]
Isn't 1 Terabyte=1024 Gigabytes?
(Not that it makes a difference, given the huge storage capacity)[/nitpick]
Or is it "Tebibyte" now? And if so, why did it change?

Akkleptos wrote:

Davey wrote: Storage: 2x Western Digital 500GB Hard Disks (total 1TB)

[nitpick]
Isn't 1 Terabyte=1024 Gigabytes?
(Not that it makes a difference, given the huge storage capacity)[/nitpick]
Or is it "Tebibyte" now? And if so, why did it change?

No, it's correct. Just about any manufacturer sells the hard drives actually sells them as 1000MB = 1 GB. I would expect that 1000 GB = 1 TB.

Manufacturers usually like to play what I call 'weight loss games,' (the analogy comes from the weight loss and fitness industry, because of the stereotype of them using wacky or questionable methods of playing with the numbers in order to add to their sales pitch) although rounding off 24 or so GB to make one Terabyte isn't one of the worst sorts of sins. I figured it would be close enough, so I just put "total, 1TB."

I usually estimate that 80 to 75% of a hard drive's listed volume is actually usable by the time I've got the operating system, essential OS files, and the necessary partitions, taking into account that most of the time the number on the bulleted list of features on the computer flyer has been rounded up. My laptop (2GB DDR2 RAM, AMD AthlonX2 64, Nvidia 8200M, which I managed to get on sale price with a student's discount to top it) was pitched with 250 GB of hard disk space, but in practice I ended up with a little over 230 GB and close to 1.7GB of RAM. The same went for my last laptop, which was reported to have 80GB, but actually came to about 65GB. My old laptop had Windows XP, so once I removed most of the bloatware and free demos, that came to about 60GB free, so that comes to 75%. My first desktop came with a nine GB hard disk and I ran Windows NT, and if I recall correctly only six GB were actually usable because I had the bright idea to partition and dual-boot Windows 98 for my games, my second, I can't remember, my second one died a long time ago. My current laptop came with Windows Vista, and the OS and crapware took up about 25GB together, so that works out to 82%. It improved slightly (and performance improved greatly) when I trashed the programs that weren't essential to the OS. Most of my complaints about Windows Vista being "Slow and clunky" originated from a Norton Antivirus 60-day trial, HP/Compaq customer feedback thing, and system services that had started to run away for some reason, taking most of my system memory with it. Once I got rid of that and updated to SP1 things got a lot better; svchost.exe stopped running away, causing my computer to lag (my mouse was skittering along the screen at times).

I guess in retrospect I should've added a better graphics card; they've come down nicely in price. Well, not much I can do now except: . Well, I'll upgrade it as I go. But at least I didn't waste too much money on that 9800GTX. I just hope whatever comes next will support FreeBSD.

It's Monday and my parts haven't arrived. I'm getting a little anxious, I know, it's silly, I should be patient, they did say seven to ten business days, but I can't help but think of all the anecdotes and jokes I've been told about Canada Post, UPS and FedEx delivery service mishaps and disasters.

You had 1.7GB memory likely because the graphic card takes away a portion of it.

Current video card (Geforce 8500GT) is about to die. I can't play any decent game without it slowing it down for about five minutes and then go back to normal for ten then goes back to being slow. Or in more resource intensive games like Fallout 3(for this game the vid card will either cut out or slow down), GTA IV and Sims 2(plus every expansion packs) the video card will shut itself off forcing me to do a hard reboot. But the thing is, I haven't gotten any BSOD.

So, I need a vid card on the cheap side until I get myself settled once I move to the U.S. in about 17 days. I've been thinking would a Geforce 9400GT 512MB or a Geforce 9500GT 512MB be any good?

Enigma wrote:Current video card (Geforce 8500GT) is about to die. I can't play any decent game without it slowing it down for about five minutes and then go back to normal for ten then goes back to being slow. Or in more resource intensive games like Fallout 3(for this game the vid card will either cut out or slow down), GTA IV and Sims 2(plus every expansion packs) the video card will shut itself off forcing me to do a hard reboot. But the thing is, I haven't gotten any BSOD.

So, I need a vid card on the cheap side until I get myself settled once I move to the U.S. in about 17 days. I've been thinking would a Geforce 9400GT 512MB or a Geforce 9500GT 512MB be any good?

An 8500GT dying? That's fast. The card just came out last year. If I were you, I'd avoid the G92 chips. There were some issues with the laptop variations and I'm not sure how badly they affected the desktop cards.

Why not a 4830 or one of the other ATI mid range cards?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Enigma wrote:Current video card (Geforce 8500GT) is about to die. I can't play any decent game without it slowing it down for about five minutes and then go back to normal for ten then goes back to being slow. Or in more resource intensive games like Fallout 3(for this game the vid card will either cut out or slow down), GTA IV and Sims 2(plus every expansion packs) the video card will shut itself off forcing me to do a hard reboot. But the thing is, I haven't gotten any BSOD.

So, I need a vid card on the cheap side until I get myself settled once I move to the U.S. in about 17 days. I've been thinking would a Geforce 9400GT 512MB or a Geforce 9500GT 512MB be any good?

An 8500GT dying? That's fast. The card just came out last year. If I were you, I'd avoid the G92 chips. There were some issues with the laptop variations and I'm not sure how badly they affected the desktop cards.

Why not a 4830 or one of the other ATI mid range cards?

I think Fallout3 is what killed it. I didn't have the slowdowns or shutoffs until I installed and tried to play it.

How much would the 4830 go for?

EDIT: Nevermind, I've checked the price for the 4830 and at the moment it is too much.

Enigma wrote:I think Fallout3 is what killed it. I didn't have the slowdowns or shutoffs until I installed and tried to play it.

How much would the 4830 go for?

EDIT: Nevermind, I've checked the price for the 4830 and at the moment it is too much.

Well, I would point out that the cards you suggest are comparable to the 8500GT you were using. They may even be using the same chips albeit repackaged and rebranded.

EDIT: THe 9500GT uses a G96 which is shrunken version of the older chips.

You might want to consider the ATI 4670 or 4550 though. Seems they might be faster.

Davey wrote:Manufacturers usually like to play what I call 'weight loss games,' (the analogy comes from the weight loss and fitness industry, because of the stereotype of them using wacky or questionable methods of playing with the numbers in order to add to their sales pitch) although rounding off 24 or so GB to make one Terabyte isn't one of the worst sorts of sins. I figured it would be close enough, so I just put "total, 1TB."

Oh, you're getting a full trillion bytes (and even a little extra - my drive reads as having 1,000,202,039,296 bytes) with your 1TB hard drive. The discrepancy comes in where hard drive manufacturers define a terabyte as 10^12 bytes, while computers define a terabyte as 2^40 bytes.

A buddy of mine is looking to build his first computer ever, any suggestions? He wants a mid-range gaming rig. I've told him that 8 gigs of ram is overkill and I'm not sure if he should go for Vista or XP and if he should go 32 or 64 bit.
link to specs

Vista is pretty damn good, 64-bit for sure unless he likes playing old games. 8GB is overkill, 4GB would be fine, but I think Stark and a few others run 8GB gaming rigs, I'd wait for them to post.
The CPU seems abit high, I've heard about U.S. pricing cuts about to go into effect, you could look into that.
GPU would be the main limiter, a serious one. He's dropping $270 on a CPU, nearly $90 on the RAM, but buying a toy GPU?

mizuno wrote:A buddy of mine is looking to build his first computer ever, any suggestions? He wants a mid-range gaming rig. I've told him that 8 gigs of ram is overkill and I'm not sure if he should go for Vista or XP and if he should go 32 or 64 bit.
link to specs

RAM looks fine. 8GB might be overkill, but fuck, why not? It's dirt-cheap right now. Just have to go with a 64-bit OS to use it - Vista 64 is fine. Don't try XP 64-bit, everything I've heard about it is awful.

For a "mid-range gaming rig", ditch the quad-core for a faster dual-core which will grant superior gaming performance while saving about $100 - with that $100, you can ditch that 9600GT in favor of a GTX 260 Core 216.

I don't know Silverstone, I can't comment on their quality. Big brand PSU names like Seasonic are safest. 700W is way overkill for a non-SLI system. I like to recommend Corsair power supplies - this one is a bit less expensive, is closer to your power needs (though even at peak load I bet you'd draw less than 300W), is known to incorporate excellent quality components in its design and construction, and provides two PCI-E power connectors for that video card.


Motherboard looks good, Hard drive looks good.

I prefer the Antec Solo case myself. Blingy case fans are meh - might as well go for Scythe's line of low-noise fans. Consider a quiet heatsink like Xigmatek's S1283 as well.

I'd ditch the full tower for a better mid-tower, like a P180 or P182. Unless he's got something like 8 hard drives, a 5 optical drive burning setup, etc., a mid-tower is more space than your friend will ever need. 8 GB of RAM is total overkill, but RAM's cheap, so it doesn't really matter (though you'll almost never use more than about 2.5 GB on a mid-range rig). Ditch the bling. He'll never see it anyways using that case, or one of the ones Phongn or I suggested. Vista 64-bit for the OS is the best choice right now, but get Home Premium instead of Ultimate (odds are your friend will never use the extra features).

Beyond that, I'll echo Uraniun's suggestion to ditch the quad-core for the E8400 or E8500, and upgrade the GPU to something like the GTX 260 216 or HD 4870 1 GB (those cards are roughly equal in performance, and will run everything at the highest settings on that monitor, except for Crysis). And since your friend isn't doing SLI or Crossfire, use either Uraniun's suggestion for a PSU, or something like this one.

My 'Current' PC that I got a year ago has fucked up recently for no apparant reason. One day I switched it off only to switch it on the next to a completely garbled screen.
A.K.A I can hear the load up sounds of Vista but the screen is a fucking wreck of colours and lines. I used a 15' monitor and got the same result so I figured it was the system at fault. Cant see shit so naturally I have had it picked up to go back to the shop to get fixed - If it is a Hardware problem (I think it was a Graphics card fuck up) then I dont have to pay anything and if it isnt they fix it and charge me for the pick up £35.

ANYWAY...
Since it is going to get fixed up, I figured now that I have had it a year now would be a good time to get it upgraded at the same time. Hence, some advice is always appreciated.

Overall, I am looking towards a gaming / media based computer. Store lots of movies / music / games / files etc.
With that in mind my current system with my 'changes'. My 'Budget' is £1500 in total.

The website for the place is here: PC SPECIALIST

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™2 Duo E6850 (2 X 3.00GHz) 1333MHz FSB/4MB L2 Cache

- Looking at the available processors on their site has lead me to favour:

Intel® Core™2 Duo E8600 (2 X 3.33GHz) 1333MHz FSB/6MB L2 Cache

OR

Intel® Core™2 Quad Q9650 (4 X 3.00GHz) 1333MHz FSB/12MB L2 Cache

Prices for individual components arent listed so I really dont know the price difference but playing with the various setups figures that the Quad is much more expensive than the Duo. I lean towards getting the Duo ATM if only because being cheaper means I can fix other stuff rather than blow a lot on a single item while the rest of the system cant use it effectively.
Would A Quad core be beneficial compared to a Duo ?

Memory (RAM)
2GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x1GB)

Ideally I want to increase my RAM considerably. My Current system is 32 Bit so naturally I am going to be jumping to 64 bit to allow for more ram.

The site lists up to:

4GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (4x2GB)

OR

4GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR 1066MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (4x2GB)

Is there any appreciable benefit for jumping to 1066MHZ compared to just going for a cheaper 4GB worth of 800Mhz ?
Would getting more than 4GB be advantages at all ?

Motherboard
ASUS® P5N32-E SLI+: Quad-core CPU Ready, NVIDIA® Dual X16 SLI

This particular thing is where I am completely clueless. The site has various motherboards available. Some for SLI etc. and have no idea what to choose.
My Current setup uses SLI so I went under the SLI selection and DDR2.
DDR 3 has a different selection of Processers that go up to the:

Intel Core i7 I7-965 (4X3.20GHZ) 6.4GTs/8Mb Cache

The Price quotes for this kind of componet rapidly go from 1500+ which would blow the budget almost completely on this item alone. Is DD3 + This processor worth the price or will would I be better getting a lower level DDR level 2 with the forementioned Processors ?

Regardless:

The motherboard options for DDR2 are either

Asus P5N-D: DDR 2 SATAII 2XPCI-e x 16, 2x PCI, 2 x PCI-e x 1
OR
Asus P5N-T:Deluxe DDR 2 SATAII 3XPCI-e x 16, 1 PCI x 2 PCI-e

The P5N-T looks to me to be the 'later' model and thus would be better but is this correct ?

Operating System
WINDOWS® VISTA Ultimate (inc. Genuine CD & License) (£119)

WINDOWS® VISTA Ultimate 64 bit Edition + SP1, CD & License (£149)

I know Ultimate probably isnt a good idea due to having a rather large amount of features I will probably never use but I am rather preferential to getting Ultimate.

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
500GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk
500GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7200rpm

RAID (HDD 1 & 2)
NONE

I dont intend to upgrade the Hard Drives or make any changes unless there is a reason I should due to other components involved. I have a had a year to use my computer and havent come close to filling up the 1TB of space I had available.

1st CD/DVD Drive
20x Dual Layer LightScribe DVD Writer ±R/±RW/RAM

2nd CD/DVD Drive
16x DVD-ROM WITH 48x CD-ROM

The options available are:

6x Blue-ray Writer & HD-DVD ROM DRIVE, 16X DVD ±R/±RW (£122)

OR

6x Blue-ray ROM & HD-DVD ROM DRIVE, 16X DVD ±R/±RW (£65)

I tried burning discs with my current setup and they didnt play properly so I'm considering replacing the lightscribe but I'm rather clueless if changing them both or not at all is an option.

Graphics Card
512MB GEFORCE 8800GT PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

2nd Graphics Card
512MB GEFORCE 8800GT PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

My system is SLI but I have read more than enough to tell me that getting a single good card might be better than getting two lesser cards.

The highest card available seems to be the

1792mb GEFORCE GTX295 PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

But getting two of those starts to go above budget rather sharply. Hence, is getting a Single one of these better than getting:

2x 1024MB GEFORCE GTX285 PCI Express +DVI + TV-OUT

If it IS better to get a single card, am I better off dropping to a non-SLI based system ?

Sound Card

6 Channel RealTek ALC883 Audio (Standard on P5N-E SLI)

ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) High Def Audio (As Standard)

OR

Sound Blaster Audigy SE with 7.1 Surround Sound (£21)

There are more options but I do not have the ability to support a surround system at the location so am I better to go with the next tier up from standard or just go witht he standard ?

Floppy Disk Drive
1.44MB - 3.5 INCH FLOPPY DISK DRIVE

Memory Card Reader

INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)

Nothing going to change here I believe, although the site seems to tell me that the cases do not support these two features together.
(Which is completely bullshit because my current system had both of these when they built it a year ago)
Regardless, since my current system has these. They will be coming back and naturally I will choose the Floppy Drive to go if the new case can support them both.

Speaking of which...

Case
CoolerMaster CM Stacker 831 Aluminium Case

The selection of cases available seem rather shit compared to my current one although i do like them asthetically.
The list of case options can be found on the site here:
CASES

At The moment I prefer the HAF 932 Case but since my system has a case this is more of an after thought for any spare change. The extra fans seem like a good idea to me though for cooling and airflow.

Power Supply & Case Cooling
700W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£79)

The site indicates the setup will require a 900W PSU.

Processor Cooling
ASUS SILENT KNIGHT II PURE COPPER ULTRA COOLER (£36)

ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER (£45)

Firewire & Video Editing

2 x IEEE 1394a FIREWIRE PORTS (1 onboard, 1 at back panel)

TV Card
NONE

Monitor
NONE

Not Changed

I use a 22' Hyundi at 1680x1050 which will remain the same for the foreseable future.

-----------------------------
Plugging in the specifications on the site leads to:

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™2 Duo E8600 (2 X 3.33GHz) 1333MHz FSB/6MB L2 Cache

Memory (RAM)
4GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR 1066MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY (2x2GB)

Motherboard
ASUS® P5N-T DELUXE: DDR2, SATA II, 3 x PCI-e x16, 1 PCI/2 x PCI-E

Operating System
Genuine Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64 bit Edition + SP1, CD & Licence (£149)

USB Options
6 x USB 2.0 PORTS (4 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
160GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm) (Will be a 500 GB Hard Drive from Current System)

2nd Hard Disk
NONE (Will be a 500GB Hard Drive from Current System)

RAID (HDD 1 & 2)
NONE

1st CD/DVD Drive
6x BLU-RAY ROM & HD-DVD ROM DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW (£65)

2nd CD/DVD Drive
NONE (This will be DVD drive from the current system)

Graphics Card
1024MB GEFORCE GTX285 PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

2nd Graphics Card
1024MB GEFORCE GTX285 PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

3rd Graphics Card
NONE

Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Modem
NONE, I WILL BE USING BROADBAND

Network Facilities
ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT

Floppy Disk Drive
NONE (Hopefully it will fit, if so it comes from system)

Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) (Will come from current system)

Case
COOLERMASTER HAF 932 BLACK GAMING PC CASE

Power Supply & Case Cooling
900W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (Special Offer: £105)

Processor Cooling
ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER (£45)

The Price for this system comes out at: £1,743

Over budget but given some of these items already exist on my current system and will not be getting purchased. A.K.A The case then the price should be lower.

Getting it lower will naturally be beneficial if possible.

I don't know about you, but I would tend to stay away from dual card setups unless I am absolutely sure the heat output doesn't screw the card up.

PREDATOR490 wrote:Intel® Core™2 Duo E8600 (2 X 3.33GHz) 1333MHz FSB/6MB L2 Cache
Intel® Core™2 Quad Q9650 (4 X 3.00GHz) 1333MHz FSB/12MB L2 Cache

The E8500 and Q9550 are the sweet spots for Intel CPUs right now. Most applications do not take advantage of quad-core processing.

4GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (4x2GB)
4GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR 1066MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (4x2GB)

If you do not plan to overclock, 667MHz RAM is fine. Additional speed will not give an improvement in performance.

The Price quotes for this kind of componet rapidly go from 1500+ which would blow the budget almost completely on this item alone. Is DD3 + This processor worth the price or will would I be better getting a lower level DDR level 2 with the forementioned Processors ?

If you want the Core i7, the 920 model is quite nice. Couple it with 6GB DDR3-1066 and you'd have a very fast machine.

The P5N-T looks to me to be the 'later' model and thus would be better but is this correct ?

It is, but the question is if you need to spend the additional dollars.

I dont intend to upgrade the Hard Drives or make any changes unless there is a reason I should due to other components involved. I have a had a year to use my computer and havent come close to filling up the 1TB of space I had available.

Do not use RAID 0.

I tried burning discs with my current setup and they didnt play properly so I'm considering replacing the lightscribe but I'm rather clueless if changing them both or not at all is an option.

Uh, there's nothing stopping you from having one drive to do it all.

My system is SLI but I have read more than enough to tell me that getting a single good card might be better than getting two lesser cards.

SLI or Crossfire are not really worth the price premium, IMHO.

The highest card available seems to be the

1792mb GEFORCE GTX295 PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

That is a single-card SLI solution (similar to the 4870X2).

There are more options but I do not have the ability to support a surround system at the location so am I better to go with the next tier up from standard or just go witht he standard ?

Standard is fine.

The site indicates the setup will require a 900W PSU.

Not at all.