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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:You should ask Coilerburg and Adrianopolis then. Much less Shepistan and Japanistan. If common sense were the rule of the day, Coilerburg and Adrianopolis wouldn't have joined UAR. Adrian himself admitted later in the MESS forum that he did it "for fun".

I hardly think that the attitudes during the previous game are the same as they are during this one. Although they might be for Shep and Skimmer. And even then, I haven't seen Skimmer pull out all the stops in response to some pretty blatant up-arming on the part of the OC nations. Frankly even they appear to act a lot more reasonable than most people give them credit for.

Hardly silly. I am taking the industrial espionage problem seriously. Which nation in the world wouldn't? Electronic warfare for example is one of the most sacred secrets in the military establishment. No one is seriously going to sell their EW techniques to anyone, unless they are seriously close allies.

What does EW equipment have to do with anything? You're making a big fuss of the lease of the reactor design citing concerns over espionage, and I'm calling bollocks on it. Insofar as I can tell no-one's ever asked Shroomania to sell them its latest greatest EW technology, or any other secret strategic technologies of mega-importance for that matter.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Where did you read that? Global Security makes no mention of it. There are 3 distinct classes right now. I think you are mixing the ship up for the monohull one.

Ah.

Cain was made a commodore of a small flotilla of vessels that are involved in ASW ships. There's nothing to stop me from going further from that.

Oh.

I got confused.

Well... the A380s are beginning to see service come end of the year...

Fuck yeah. Can we has integrated datalinks?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Fuck yeah. Can we has integrated datalinks?

That's the whole point of packing that much electronics into one ship, and why I'm buying 32 of them.

I mean, datalinks so Byzantium and Shroomania (and PeZookia and the USSR and the CSR) can communicate and send data to each other so we can all get heads up if and when they come for our children.

^________^

Well let's see if Stas will set up a new vote o whether the PRSF wants to fully join the CSR. Earlier he said he was willing to have a vote on the matter.

I personally think a lot of people there would be leery of becoming a province of the CSR and thus give up their sovereignty. It's not like they have a long history together or close cultural ties, if I understand the situation properly. Though I could see them becoming an independent republic ina larger alliance or something like that very easily.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I mean, datalinks so Byzantium and Shroomania (and PeZookia and the USSR and the CSR) can communicate and send data to each other so we can all get heads up if and when they come for our children.

^________^

Ah... yeah. A lot of work in the systems went into making sure they could work with all the aircraft (which was hard). It will take a few months to iron out some of the bugs, though a lot of the systems were tested before hand.

all the suggestions/help

Thanks everyone.

I've decided to be the western-most Velarian island chain, which, unless it already has a name, I'd like to be called Misteria.

I'm probably not going to write a massive historical document anytime soon like others here have, but I'll get a few important details down here. Feel free to tear them to shreds.

- Previously uninhabited except by a few adventurers and explorers, it was settled en masse during the Late Medieval/Early Renaissance Period by refugees fleeing from what is now the CSR/Byzantium for (insert reason here).
- At some point, it became an indirect territory of Shroomania through a Shroomanian trading company, and remained one for a about a decade before it purchased its freedom from the down-on-its-luck company for an embarrassingly low sum.
- After this, there was an on-and-off civil war which lasted about a decade, with one noble house finally gaining control of the entire island chain.
- The royalty started out benevolent, but a few Kings and Queens down the line and it had, as royalty is wont to do, degenerated into a quite tyrannical establishment.
- The dynasty controlled the islands until very recently (like last week recently), when the last King was overthrown in a mostly-bloodless coup and a republican government established.

In other news, I'm currently working on my map, and I drafted up an OOB, which I expect I will be changing a lot.

Pollux wrote:I've decided to be the western-most Velarian island chain, which, unless it already has a name, I'd like to be called Misteria.

This Island Chain? I don't believe it has any sort of history, or current population.

Pollux wrote:In other news, I'm currently working on my map, and I drafted up an OOB, which I expect I will be changing a lot.

Just remember, your GDP is 350 billion.

edit: Oh, and would you like yo buy some Viis?

Karmic, what do you mean "with whoever I can meet in PeZookia"?

You're a national leader. Sending a flunky to meet you would be insulting

PeZook wrote:Karmic, what do you mean "with whoever I can meet in PeZookia"?

You're a national leader. Sending a flunky to meet you would be insulting

I have a very low opinion of myself, I wouldn't send a foreign minister to meet me.

SiegeTank wrote:

Steve wrote:The FTO needs to prove it can make Frequesue stable.

Kindly note that the FTO is doing fine as long as Great Powers refrain from butting in on us.

You're certainly doing okay, but are you telling me that external Great Powers are responsible for the chaos in the former CFR? Coilerburg's conflicts with neighboring countries? (I recall Coiler fighting the nation Minoy, then of course Sabika and Omango). Coilerburg's lawful government being ousted by a military coup d'etat (Which the FTO has apparently accepted completely, without any pressure on them to restore the legitimate government)? Piracy by that Muertos nation by San Dorado? Are the Great Powers really responsible for all of that?

(Note that IC the Uranium War was quite clearly a locally-provoked matter as well, though OOC we can all see it was Czech's way of getting turned into Tian Jiao and Beo's SAR in Frequesue).


So long as such open sores remain, there will be room for further foreign adventurism in the "F-ing Continent".

SiegeTank wrote:I hardly think that the attitudes during the previous game are the same as they are during this one. Although they might be for Shep and Skimmer. And even then, I haven't seen Skimmer pull out all the stops in response to some pretty blatant up-arming on the part of the OC nations. Frankly even they appear to act a lot more reasonable than most people give them credit for.

As I recall, he already outguns the Old Continent...badly (he can take them all on by himself IIRC) because he didn't use the points and they did.

So that said, they're not so much up-arming as they are catching up to what he already has.

As to whether or not they're being "reasonable" I'm sure we all have our opinions on that one.

Steve wrote:

SiegeTank wrote:

Steve wrote:The FTO needs to prove it can make Frequesue stable.

Kindly note that the FTO is doing fine as long as Great Powers refrain from butting in on us.

You're certainly doing okay, but are you telling me that external Great Powers are responsible for the chaos in the former CFR? Coilerburg's conflicts with neighboring countries? (I recall Coiler fighting the nation Minoy, then of course Sabika and Omango). Coilerburg's lawful government being ousted by a military coup d'etat (Which the FTO has apparently accepted completely, without any pressure on them to restore the legitimate government)? Piracy by that Muertos nation by San Dorado? Are the Great Powers really responsible for all of that?

(Note that IC the Uranium War was quite clearly a locally-provoked matter as well, though OOC we can all see it was Czech's way of getting turned into Tian Jiao and Beo's SAR in Frequesue).


So long as such open sores remain, there will be room for further foreign adventurism in the "F-ing Continent".

Well as far as the coup in Coilerburg goes, Indhopal at least is seeing that as a purely internal matter. I see the situation being similar to the recent coup in Thailand. The US, Thailand’s ally, didn't step in to restore the old government to power in that case. Though perhaps I should be prodding Coilerburg's junta a bit more about when they will be returning power to the civilian government.

As for the CFR, that place has been a festering pit for decades, as a direct result of colonial misrule. It really is a Congo analog in many ways, as it was designed to be. The FTO finally got tired of the instability and lack or real government, and once Mortimer's regime collapsed with the old dictator’s death, we've stepped in with Operation Stabilizer to try and salvage the country to some degree.

Raj Ahten wrote:Well as far as the coup in Coilerburg goes, Indhopal at least is seeing that as a purely internal matter. I see the situation being similar to the recent coup in Thailand. The US, Thailand’s ally, didn't step in to restore the old government to power in that case. Though perhaps I should be prodding Coilerburg's junta a bit more about when they will be returning power to the civilian government.

I'm still as paranoid about the whole military junta in control of the nation as I was on day one, we need to do something to make sure the people of Coilerburg aren't just being decimated by a regime whose stated goals are to increase the power of the military.

You know, that whole Coilerburg Navy gets in on the slave trade thing makes some sense. After all, the junta's restructuring would mean, IIRC, cuts to the Navy, especially their "white elephant" DDGs. So it's easy to see how such corruption can take root. They're disgruntled, budgets got cut, career prospects suck now (smaller Navy means less officers to run it...and those officers don't need high ranks either after all), and so on.

Just an observation.

Raj
Roughly how many extra people did iron still extract?

Karmic Knight wrote:Raj
Roughly how many extra people did iron still extract?

I'd say 500 or so, as Indhopal was raiding the Revolutionary Front's prison camps. (Thats probably a detail I should put in the main thread......)

RogueIce wrote:As I recall, he already outguns the Old Continent...badly (he can take them all on by himself IIRC) because he didn't use the points and they did.

So that said, they're not so much up-arming as they are catching up to what he already has.

As to whether or not they're being "reasonable" I'm sure we all have our opinions on that one.

And so, the great expansion of the Byzantine Army begins....

So Shep, is this now the "War of the Nuclear Waste"?

Is it just me, or is this constant oneupmanship of dickery between Shep and the Mess going to get us all killed?

For Fingolfin (and other WARPAC equipment users) who wonder what types of munitions should be used against hardened targets and concrete objects like airfields, roads, dams, shelters etc.:

Bombs

1) BETAB-500U
Concrete penetrator bomb. Targets: underground munitions storages, fuel and WMD storages, hardened command points, communication facilities, concrete shelters, roads, highways, concrete aviation shelters. Can penetrate up to 3m of ground and 1,2 m concrete. Used from 150-20000 m altitudes, on 500-2300 kph speed of bomber.

Carriers: strategic, tactical bombers (Su-25/39, Su-24, Su-34, Tu-22M3/5, Tu-142M3, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M)

2) BETAB-500SHP
Concrete penetrator bomb. Targets: roads, concrete airfields, concrete shelters, armored shelters. Can penetrate: armor up to 550 mm. In ground creates a 4,5m diameter pit. When striking a concrete airstrip or road, area of destroyed conrete is 50 m square. Used on altitudes 170-1000m, on bomber speeds 700-1150 kph.

Carriers: strategic, tactical bombers (Su-25/39, Su-24, Su-34, Tu-22M3/5, Tu-142M3, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M)

3) KAB-1500 series of guided bombs - various guidance mechanisms with CEP ranging from 4 to 10 m depending on guidance mechanism. Targets same as above. Uses special penetrator munition, capable of piercing around 20 m of ground and underlying concrete ceiling up to 3 m thick. Can be used from altitudes of 1 to 15 km with bomber speeds at 500 - 1700 kph.

Carriers: strategic, tactical bombers (Su-24, Su-34, Tu-22M3/5, Tu-142M3, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M)

4) KAB-500 series of guided bombs - with piercing munitions. Targets same as above. Capable of piercing around 10 m of ground and underlying concrete ceiling up to 1,5 m thick.

Carriers: strategic, tactical bombers (Su-25/39, Su-24, Su-34, Tu-22M3/5, Tu-142M3, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M)

Unguided reactive missiles

1) C-8BM.
Modernized concrete penetrator missile. Targets same as above. Maximal range 2,2 km, CEP at range is 6m. Capable of piercing 0,8m of concrete ceiling or walls.

Carriers: tactical bombers (Su-25/39, Su-24, Su-34), helicopters (Ka-29, Ka-50/52, Mi-24, Mi-28A)

2) C-13T.
Specialized penetrator missile. Targets same as above. Capable of piercing 6 m of ground, 1 m of reinforced concrete. When striking an airstrip, area of destruction is 20m square.

Carriers: tactical bombers (Su-39, Su-24, Su-34)

Guided missiles

1) Kh-29 series tactical penetrator missile. Targets: caponiers, hardened shelters, airfields, concrete structures, concrete dams. Penetrating explosive mass: 116 kg (comparable to: J-1000, 109 kg)

Carriers: tactical bombers (Su-39, Su-24, Su-34)

2) Kh-555 long-range cruise missile with penetrator warhead. Targets same as above. Penetrating explosive mass: 400 kg (comparable to: BROACH, MEPHISTO, Lancer)

Carriers: strategic bombers (Tu-22M3/5, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M), SSGN, CGN, ground-launched

3) Kh-101 stealth cruise missile with penetrator warhead. Targets same as above. Penetrating explosive mass: 400 kg.

Carriers: strategic bombers (Tu-22M3/5, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M), SSGN, CGN, ground-launched

Thermobaric weapons

1) FOAB-based penetrator (Russian MOP analogue, with a penetrator module attached to the 7-ton AVBPM vacuum bomb, exploding after piercing 15-30 m of ground and 1-3 m of reinforced concrete or 500 mm of armor. I would call it "FAP" - F-ing Awesome Penetrator.

Carriers: strategic bombers (Tu-22M3/5, Tu-142M3, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M)

2) FOAB itself (Soviet name: AV-BPM, high power aviation bomb)

Carriers: strategic bombers (Tu-22M3/5, Tu-142M3, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M)

Other bombs heavy enough to do the job

3) FAB-9000 and ODAB-1500 - the heaviest after FOAB conventional ordnance available. Dropping them on concrete targets would result in destruction of airstrips, roads, entrances and other facilities.

Carriers: strategic bombers (Tu-22M3/5, Tu-142M3, Tu-95MS-16, Tu-160M)

Karmic Knight wrote:Is it just me, or is this constant oneupmanship of dickery between Shep and the Mess going to get us all killed?

It'll take a lot for the MESS to one-up Shep this time. Dumping a still-hot nuclear reactor into the ocean is perhaps the absolute most dickish thing I've seen so far; suffice to say that fisheries in the Old Dominion and maybe Japanistan, Sirnoth, and Shroomania (depending on how the currents in the area flow) will be fucked for decades.

Not that that'll stop the Duchy of Langley from finalizing that arms deal, of course. Hint, hint, Shep.

On a related note, Shroomzilla never got to appear in the first game. Maybe he'll appear this time around.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:On a related note, Shroomzilla never got to appear in the first game. Maybe he'll appear this time around.

Shroomzilla, lord Proctor of Shepland?

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:It'll take a lot for the MESS to one-up Shep this time. Dumping a still-hot nuclear reactor into the ocean is perhaps the absolute most dickish thing I've seen so far; suffice to say that fisheries in the Old Dominion and maybe Japanistan, Sirnoth, and Shroomania (depending on how the currents in the area flow) will be fucked for decades.

Not really. We did dump the Seawolf reactor 500 miles off shore, and the Soviets dumped reactors much closer than that; and life goes on.

Not that that'll stop the Duchy of Langley from finalizing that arms deal, of course. Hint, hint, Shep.

Yes of course give me amoment.

Stas, I'm saddened that you didn't include Simulation Bombs:

Simulation bombs are used for replicating the outward appearance of a mid-air or ground explosion of a nuclear bomb. The body is filled with kerosene and housing demolition charges (TNT and a different explosive mixture) and a capsule filled with white phosphorus. When the fuse operates, the demolition charges break open the bomb's body and the capsule with phosphorus, whereupon the phosphorus ignites the kerosene. The result is a tremendous fireball followed immediately by a rapidly growing, billowing white mushroom cloud-all the tell-tale signs of a nuclear explosion. The phosphorus is needed to colour the cloud white for added realism.
Simulation Bombs


IAB-3000
3,297mm length
820mm body diameter
1,002mm stabilizer span
2,367 kg weight

IAB-500
3,365mm overall length
580mm body diameter
726mm stabilizer span
470 kg