SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Sure, if I want a blind and deaf existence. (Your photoreceptors and whatever extra-sensory input will simply degrade to death in such an environment regardless how rugged they are!)

You see, that's what I mean when I say you don't really understand

A physical body is but a shell. Only life is shackled by its limits...death knows no such boundaries.

Accept the Gift!

Never! I don't want to be blind!

[PeZook]

Never! I don't want to be blind!

*sigh*

Okay, without necron-speak: Machine intelligences can swap physical bodies willy-nilly, while fresh optics and sensors are taken from a spares crate and installed

They could also perceive events from a thousand perspectives at once. How cool is that?

EDIT:

Thanks for catching that; I did change my numbers a couple times but probably forgot to do the resultant maths...

Spreadsheets are your friend: automatically updating sums FTW!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Never! I don't want to be blind!

*sigh*

Okay, without necron-speak: Machine intelligences can swap physical bodies willy-nilly, while fresh optics and sensors are taken from a spares crate and installed

They could also perceive events from a thousand perspectives at once. How cool is that?

Some of the more cybernetically inclined members of the Adeptus Mechanicus already have 90% mechanical parts. The 10% just so happens to be an organic brain, with lots of cybernetics as well.

[PeZook]

Some of the more cybernetically inclined members of the Adeptus Mechanicus already have 90% mechanical parts. The 10% just so happens to be an organic brain, with lots of cybernetics as well.

See? You're almost there, all it takes is the final, tiny step...once you take it, the sky's the limit!

[Simon_Jester]

Sure, if I want a blind and deaf existence. (Your photoreceptors and whatever extra-sensory input will simply degrade to death in such an environment regardless how rugged they are!)

You see, that's what I mean when I say you don't really understand
A physical body is but a shell. Only life is shackled by its limits...death knows no such boundaries.
Accept the Gift!

Sorry, but I have an inordinate fondness for carbon.
[hugs giant buckyball]
[returns to task of assembling Giant Ion Cannon parts with a set of Allen wrenches]

Some of the more cybernetically inclined members of the Adeptus Mechanicus already have 90% mechanical parts. The 10% just so happens to be an organic brain, with lots of cybernetics as well.

See? You're almost there, all it takes is the final, tiny step...once you take it, the sky's the limit!

The final step to becoming a Collector is a brainectomy?
...
...Wow, my decision not to sign up is sounding better by the day.

[Kartr_Kana]

Did some one say Ion Cannon?

The ship in the back of the frame is the leading contender for my $650 OverSector Dreadnought. Ship in the foreground is the leading contender for my $550 Sector Dreadnought.

[Dave]

What should be my rate of new ship commissioning?

I mean, I'm writing up a prologue scene where the Defense Secretary asks for new Heavy ships (the biggest ships in my fleet, actually, because I have a small GDP and pesky political issues.)
The Prime Minister's like, "oh, you gotta be kidding me, those things are fucking expensive and a PITA to organize support for." And the Defense Secretary says, "yeah, well, we need something to smash pirate bases with."

So what is the rate at which I can lay down new keels? We have ship building rates, but I don't have the rate at which I can order new ships.

Mathematical solution attempt hidden for those with sensitive eyes: Spoiler

I mean, I could do something like take Japan's Defense spending by GDP (0.9%) and multiply that by my GDP ($47 k) to get less than $500 of total defense budget. But I'd commission about three ships a year at most on that (actually that sounds about right, now that I think about it) and completely ignore operating expenses, and we agreed to keep the numbers to a minimum .

[Coyote]

It's 1 month for every $10 worth of hull.

[Ryan Thunder]

Sorry, but I have an inordinate fondness for carbon.
[hugs giant buckyball]

That was fucking gold.

[Dave]

It's 1 month for every $10 worth of hull.

I saw that in the wiki. Perhaps what I should say is, how many ships can I have in the pipeline at any one time?

If I wanted to be a douche, I could say "I'm starting 3000 Super-Dreadnought class ships at $1000 a pop right now, and in 10 years, when my fleet is finished, I will own the galaxy."

This is of course politically and economically infeasible. I understand shuttles and gunboats come out at whatever mix you want at $100 a week. But larger shipbuilding is in the months to years timeframe.
So my question is, how many ships can I be constructing in parallel?

[Kartr_Kana]

I think it's mostly up to what you think is appropriate. The way I'm gauging my ability to lay keels is one Ultra-Heave per Terra-formed planet and two for natural earth like planets. I'm also restricting my $650-$700 keels to the Homeworld sector, and the $550-$600 keels to the Core Sectors.

[Dave]

I think it's mostly up to what you think is appropriate. The way I'm gauging my ability to lay keels is one Ultra-Heave per Terra-formed planet and two for natural earth like planets. I'm also restricting my $650-$700 keels to the Homeworld sector, and the $550-$600 keels to the Core Sectors.

Sure, and I was going to estimate something along those lines (maybe 3 heavy keels laid down per 10 months, since my build-and-spaceworthyness-test time would be ~two years per ship, for, say, twelve ships total, so the last ships come out at 5 and a half years).

It's like when I was asking about the speed of the warp drive in sectors per time unit. People said "speed of plot" and I had to ask "Ok, yeah, but what's the speed of the drive so I can figure out what the speed of the plot should be?"

[Coyote]

I also asked Steve via PM how we are to expand, either at what point do we declare a new sector to be "colonial" enough to actually qualify for an increased GDP, and how we can invest in extant sectors to upgrade them...

[Siege]

ROLEPLAY IT.

STOP ASKING FOR MORE RULES.

[Steve]

Sector upgrades will be considered annually in consideration with actions in-game, but keep in mind you're talking about population increases in the billion range, joined with suitable economic base expansion, to have an actual "type" upgrade. Plus the implication with Colonial sectors is that save for 1 or 2 of the five main worlds being natural Earth-like planets, the others require terraforming to varying extents.

I'm trying to avoid quantification of a nation's shipyard capacity to reduce the "spreadsheet" aspect of the STGOD. For what it's worth, try to stick to a 20%-25% rate of your starting force size, with an appropriate balance, as a good "guidepost". As with everything else in our featherweight rules STGOD, the mods will make a final determination on what is feasible and what is not.

And I see Siege beat me to the punch, in far simpler fashion.

[Coyote]

Well, I wasn't seeking numerical calculations, but just some sort of clarification. I mean, having a guy show up, plant a flag, and declare "I claim this land in the name of _______!" is, technically, colonizing, at least in the first stage...

[Dave]

try to stick to a 20%-25% rate of your starting force size, with an appropriate balance, as a good "guidepost".

Sweet. That's all I was asking for. No muss, no fuss, just a rule of thumb as for what is acceptable.

[Simon_Jester]

Re: Siege:
If nothing else I want to know in advance what will and will not be considered an outright "dick move" on the part of the mods. I prefer to avoid breaking rules, rather than breaking them by accident and having to go back and eat my words because someone twists my arm. Hence the desire for a rough estimate of what acceptable military buildup is. I'm happy with considering my nation's upper bound to be "20% of GDP worth of military construction laid down per year," and will operate on or below that basis until contacted by a mod with a request to do otherwise. I do not feel any sense that others are obliged to do so.

Re: Coyote:
Given that it took over a thousand years for most of our powers to reach their current state, I don't expect to see upgrades in the status of sectors (from neutral to colonial, from colonial to midrange, etc.) within the timespan of the game. Maybe on a small scale (a GDP upgraded level X sector to a level X+1 sector, since that's a small jump), but nothing big.

If it happens, it'll be a side effect of major in-game events, just as depressions and such could be caused by in-game events as well.

Did some one say Ion Cannon?
[beamy beams of death]
The ship in the back of the frame is the leading contender for my $650 OverSector Dreadnought. Ship in the foreground is the leading contender for my $550 Sector Dreadnought.

Ah! A fellow enthusiast! Could we interest you in the latest force field beamline screening technology?

Anyway, comparing blocky Homeworld ships to my image of my own, the basic difference in concept looks like the same respect in which Umeria differs from the Imperium. We build spindly things that would not look entirely out of place in Star Trek; you build heavily armed and protected bricks. It mostly becomes a question of whether a 400$ ship with good offense and poor defense can reliably beat a 400$ ship with adequate offense and adequate defense.

(Hint: Look at the prices. It can't. )

[CmdrWilkens]

Following up a bit on sector increases, GDP increases, etc I figure the easiest way to put it is this: In our current timeline it has taken everyone somewhere between a few hundred years to almost a millennium to reach the current NCP level. Take the high end of the sale (26 NCPs) and that works out to somewhere in the range of .065 NCPs per year. Since the most efficient GDP buy was $2000k per point this would equate to $130 per year...at the high end.

So in simpler terms...don't change your GDP and just roleplay with what you have.

[Simon_Jester]

Following up a bit on sector increases, GDP increases, etc I figure the easiest way to put it is this: In our current timeline it has taken everyone somewhere between a few hundred years to almost a millennium to reach the current NCP level. Take the high end of the sale (26 NCPs) and that works out to somewhere in the range of .065 NCPs per year. Since the most efficient GDP buy was $2000k per point this would equate to $130 per year...at the high end.

So in simpler terms...don't change your GDP and just roleplay with what you have.

Makes sense. Some random events might (temporarily or permanently) increase GDP a bit; there are good plots to be had from things like a mining sector opening up. But the changes won't be all that significant, I think.

[CmdrWilkens]

Exactly...within the guide of don't go crazy remember you will almost certainly get a friendly warning as oppossed to a retraction if you go too crazy. We don't want everyone looking over their shoulder at the big ol' ModHammer about to descend because that takes the fun out of being spontaneous and a bit crazy.

The game/story SHOULD have action, and battles, and explosions, and rampant militarism, enlightened pacifists protected by God-shields, character death and pointless debauchery...we just don't need to have folks pinned in to a corner because their neighbor decided to get extra frisky with all of the above at once.



Unrelated but finally got my OOB and basic nation info up on the Wiki...yay for Sauron worshiping pseudo-Romans (yes Thanas I know its a BAD bastardization).

[PeZook]

Sorry, but I have an inordinate fondness for carbon.
[hugs giant buckyball]
[returns to task of assembling Giant Ion Cannon parts with a set of Allen wrenches]

Carbon is an excellent material, but life uses it so inefficiently...

The final step to becoming a Collector is a brainectomy?
...
...Wow, my decision not to sign up is sounding better by the day.

We prefer to think of it as getting rid of useless trash. Once you accept The Gift, your perception of the universe becomes so superior that a meat-based processor seems...disgustingly weak.

[Simon_Jester]

We prefer to think of it as getting rid of useless trash.

Well, you would, being brain donors. Anyway...

FINISHED!

[brandishes Giant Ion Cannon]

Look, Mr. Robot Man, I've got nothing specific against you and yours, just... no solicitors, OK?

[continues brandishing]

[PeZook]

Well, you would, being brain donors. Anyway...

Ah, good to know organics sitll enjoy the tradition of selective quoting. Must be terrible to have such a low memory capacity to not remember 50% of a point

FINISHED!

[brandishes Giant Ion Cannon]

Look, Mr. Robot Man, I've got nothing specific against you and yours, just... no solicitors, OK?

[continues brandishing]

Most of you don't appreciate us talking about The Gift. For some reason

[Karmic Knight]

Most of you don't appreciate us talking about The Gift. For some reason :P

Do the Collectors worship the Gift, and protect it and its propagation above all else?