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On the Terra Libertia issue, "arm or don't arm" will probably never be resolved. And if it hinges on that, we'll probably always fail.

So I propose an alternative: we all agree to not engage in any proxy wars against any faction you don't like. And we make it clear that none of the factions can launch war against another on their own, either.

Those effectively are equivalent actions, IMHO. It is incredibly unlikely that you're going to be able to stop various powers from arming client states and frankly, there are much more pressing things to worry about.

By the way, Coyote, are your diesel subs using WWII era torpedoes?

Because modern torpedoes don't leave a wake on the surface (they're electric) and are homed in by their own active sonar (and/or wire guided) so they most defenitely won't miss a freighter by inches.

PeZook wrote:By the way, Coyote, are your diesel subs using WWII era torpedoes?

Because modern torpedoes don't leave a wake on the surface (they're electric) and are homed in by their own active sonar (and/or wire guided) so they most defenitely won't miss a freighter by inches.

Naw, I just like the drama/fiction part of it. All action movie type stuff. Modern warfare would also not likely end up with a clash of fleets under gunfire, either, but that's what makes it fun in fiction! Writing stuff about missiles picking at one another at OTH range is just dull for me, and like Adrian said, we built all this cool shit, it's good drama to jizz some of it away every so often.

Shroom Man 777 wrote: The Most Curious Kingdom of St. George - King(?) Simplicius(?)

King Simplicissimus I will do, if you please.

So peace is possible, this makes me very happy.

No, it's not.

The Sovereignty of Shroomania - Prime Minister Shroom the Seven Hundred Seventy Seventh

The Republic of Vulpesia - Lord Wesley Montgomery the First.

Red Technocracy - the Secretary General Stanislav

New Gottland - High Lord Bönne of Strumpegård

Monarchy of the Mermaid - Zixinus(?)

The Grand Duchy of Vanaheim - Arch Duke Vanas(?)

The Shadow Empire - God Emperor Shady

Soveriegn Kingdom of Zoria - King Zor-Ist

The Republic of Mangka - (Public) Y.G. Ma (Private) Yenchin

Qudlivun Free State - Grand Duke Vohu Manah

The Lone Star Republic - El Presidente Lonestar

The Most Curious Kingdom of St. George - King Simplicissimus I

The Duchy of Langley - Duke Lelouch Lamperouge

The Sovereign Duchy of Baerne - Duke James of Baerne

The Kingom of Wilkonia and the Near Islands - King Andreneas II

The Bear Republic of Californication - Emporer Colin III

The United Kingdom of Blackadder (U.K.B.) - His Grace King Joseph Blackadder the VI

Shrouded Isles Nation - LordOskuro(?)

Glorious Incorporated Nation of Crossrodia – Lord High CEO of Crossrodia

Neverhood - King Hoborg the 303d (and lots of titles)

Incorporated Republic of Tonkin - President of the Board of Directors Phong Nguyen

Grand Duchy of Baal - Grand Duke General Joseph "Deathdealer" Sanguinius

The People's Republic of Canissia - His Majesty, King Arik Coyotus-I

The Shinra Republic - President Rufus Shinra

Tian Xia - Huang Di Beowulf

New Patria - (MariusRoi)

The Republic of N'ton - Dave(?)

Byzantium - Emperor Heraclius IV

II Republic of PeZookia - King Paul the First

Royal Rail Republic - Head Craftsman Redleader34(?)

Vedra Republic - President Setzer

The Republic of Indhopal - President Raj Ahten.

Adrianpolis – Presidente Adrian Laguna(?)

Enderistan - Ender(?)

Shepnukistan – President Sheppard

Arab Socialist Ba’ath Empire of Saddamistan – Emperor Saddam the Great

phongn wrote:

On the Terra Libertia issue, "arm or don't arm" will probably never be resolved. And if it hinges on that, we'll probably always fail.

So I propose an alternative: we all agree to not engage in any proxy wars against any faction you don't like. And we make it clear that none of the factions can launch war against another on their own, either.

Those effectively are equivalent actions, IMHO. It is incredibly unlikely that you're going to be able to stop various powers from arming client states and frankly, there are much more pressing things to worry about.

Except that FUN and MESS have already agreed not to arm client states and Shep has just signalled a willingness for the UAR not to arm client states in TL if the Neverhood situation get resolved peacably. Simply put the IRT are the only ones who seem to want to keep fighting proxy wars.

PeZook wrote:By the way, Coyote, are your diesel subs using WWII era torpedoes?

Because modern torpedoes don't leave a wake on the surface (they're electric) and are homed in by their own active sonar (and/or wire guided) so they most defenitely won't miss a freighter by inches.

Very few modern torpedoes are electric actually, to get enough performance for 50+ knot weapons weighing several tons you have to use some kind of preblended liquid fuel/oxidizer mix powering a turbine or piston engine. If you don’t care how much things cost (torpedoes are already more expensive then anything but large ballistic missiles) then you can also use a melting block of lithium to power a steam turbine as in the US Mk50.

Some of these torpedoes do indeed leave wakes if they run shallow, but since modern torpedoes all explode under the keel and are guided they run much deeper then those of WW2. That means the wake is more dispersed, and the position of the wake on the surface is more devoiced from the actual position of the torpedo. Anyway, plenty of folks in the modern world do indeed still have WW2 era torpedoes, because its damn hard to afford enough modern weapons at 2-3 million dollars a pop. If all you want to do is sink cargo ships, the old weapons work fine. Shoot from close range with a proper spread and the target simply cannot avoid being hit.

As for missing, no weapon is 100% reliable, that’s in fact exactly why the RN ended up using straight running but highly reliable Mk8 torpedoes (which predate WW2!) to sink a certain cruiser in 1982 even though they had the troublesome wire guided Tigerfish available

My actions make sense when you look at my STGOD history:

First game:
Overtly: I was a 4000 point power, when an 8000 point power invaded my 2000 point neighbour (justifiably, one of their scout ships was shot down without provocation) I tried to start a war over it, putting me on the wrong end of a 3-to-2 power balance. The only reason I backed down was because the guys getting invaded weren't suicidal enough to mount a resistance, and I wasn't going to commit my fleet without an ablative shield of foreign civilians.
Covertly: Commiting acts of piracy against another 8000 point power, and making a list of nations I'd like to commit genocide against.

Second Game:
Overtly: Nothing
Covertly: Desperately trying to instigate a war, and planning to use light infatry (named Contras) in ethnic cleansing operations.

Third Game:
Overtly: Joined war that I had no stake in.
Covertly: Planning genocide against all psychics.

So naturally when I come here I seized the first chance to fuel a major war. Granted that didn't justify jumping ship, but I figured my nation would be less damaged by joining the UAR. If I wanted to escape any damage at all, or even win the war, I would have just declared neutrality. You may note from my actions in the first game that I'm not afraid of a losing fight, so long as it's a good fight. I want to be like the Axis in WWII, not Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.

Anyway, it seems I'm the only warmonger here, and I believe it is because I completely misjudged the nature of SDN Nations. I've been treating is as yet another STGOD, but it seems I wondered into a game of Balance of Power while expecting a game of DefCon. In one igniting a nuclear war means you lose, in the other it's the whole point.

As such I'm going to have Interior Minister Umberto Montoya, with the support of Parliament and some elements of the military, remove Presidente Traianvs Hadrianvs from power. Restoring sane rule from Adrianpolis. Then I'm going to withdraw from the game, I simply can't work up the interest for this mamby-pamby diplomacy and proxy-fighting shit. I made a grand total of two posts in the main thread, and both of them involve a reaction to the threat of a large war.

Sorry this wasn't what you were looking for, AL. But, yeah, it is more of a diplomacy & brinksmanship type thing than just chaos and trauma. More "Sid Meier's Civilisation" than "Command & Conquer", I guess...

Well just cuz overt war isn't allowed doesn't mean you can't be involved in all sorts of juicy brush conflicts. They have provided unending amusement for me, as ProTec is involved in almost all of them.


On that note Shep, would you be willing to hire ProTec again for the PAP contract again? We only left Because we thought the world was ending......

Yes yes, PAP still needs trainers.

MKSheppard wrote:Yes yes, PAP still needs trainers.

Cool. We;ll do it at the original rates, before you increased our pay by 3-4x.

I've just gotten home, my "details to follow" post meant exactly that, give me three hours or so to post my write-up on the "plan" and then I will detail the "operation" And once that's done we can move on to "The Other Other Operation"

ATTN MESS MEMBERS:
I thought it was pretty clear in my post that me attacking your forces would occur virtually simultaneously with the declaration of war.

"Okay then we're done here, make preparations and disperse to the secondary command centes, quickly, time is of the essence. One more thing, though. I want a statement prepared to be released internationally the moment just before we start shooting."

I don't know about you, but I define a 'moment' as a very tiny amount of time, seconds. Any forces you withdraw from my territory would be withdrawing under fire. If your airborne troops take 12 hours to leave then they're fucked unless light infantry is now proof against tanks and artillery. Naval forces would probably have anti-shipping missiles heading toward them before they even got word from their government that they were being backstabbed. I mean, the whole point of doing one of those sudden turn-coat tricks is to start shooting before anyone knows what's going on. The only exception is the Victoria which instead of ASMs it would find itself being chased by a few ships and several attack helicopters (AH-1Z Cobras) telling it stand down. Its escorts, however, would be under fire.

Um. Wow. That's all kind of asshattery.

phongn wrote:Um. Wow. That's all kind of asshattery.

Adrian did this just to see a thermonuclear war. He's Out Shep-ed me.

In case it was unclear what he did - he issued a note expelling the MESS and giving them 24 hours to leave. Then he backdated it 48 hours, ensuring that an immediate state of war existed so he could grab your kit, join with the UAR and hopefully trigger a game of Global Thermonuclear War.

Yeah, that won't fly. He said we had "24 hrs" to remove ourselves, so the 1st Airborne is gone. I'm not going to accept that just because I was asleep the time "expired"...especially when we're still on "day two" of the incident.
EDIT: Ah, backdated. Cute. But the 1st airborne still has light tanks(M-8s with "armor configuration 3") and APCs. Most of them got out.

I need to know who's in the room, what world leaders are attending for the post after this one.

I think the MESS should show the world what a bloated defense budget can do

Mr Bean wrote:I need to know who's in the room, what world leaders are attending for the post after this one.

Ummm...everybody who has already been posting their peace negotiations?

CmdrWilkens wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:I need to know who's in the room, what world leaders are attending for the post after this one.

Ummm...everybody who has already been posting their peace negotiations?

If some nice person could go back through and count everyone up and who's attending in person I sure would love it.

BTW if you really want to have fun, and see a bunch of scraggly assed guys launching flares from some island in Adrianopolis, I would really like my "John Kennedy's" back.

also the Bear Box brings wholesome family fun and education. Just ask the children of Byzantium's top scientists.

phongn wrote:I think the MESS should show the world what a bloated defense budget can do

Well if I find out that one of my GEV crews is trapped on an island, I just might debut "The Hammer" a bit early.