SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

[Ryan Thunder]

To be honest, you could achieve the same effect using a dedicated bomber with a bomb bay to release and fire missiles.

Hmm... Well, in either case I'd have to develop a new airframe. The Echelons are too expensive and the Lightning-B's are too small and can't loiter long enough.

Unless somebody else has an airframe they'd be willing to sell me, that is.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

To be honest, you could achieve the same effect using a dedicated bomber with a bomb bay to release and fire missiles.

Hmm... Well, in either case I'd have to develop a new airframe. The Echelons are too expensive and the Lightning-B's are too small and can't loiter long enough.

Unless somebody else has an airframe they'd be willing to sell me, that is.

Might be willing to discuss about letting go some Tu-22s....

[Ryan Thunder]

Actually, on second thought, the Lightning might have the ordinance capacity for the role. Does eleven metric tonnes of missiles sound sufficient to make up for a few tanks to you?

Is it even concievably possible to be able to both mount and fire that many missiles on a craft that size?

[PeZook]

Let's make one thing clear here: You're not "making up for tanks", you're just building a high-capacity strike airplane

Another problem: if you're going to perform strikes against armored units, a big slow heavy attack plane is a bad choice. Armored units will have SHORADS and medium ADA vehicles with them, which will cut a Herc to ribbons with ridiculous ease. If you want volume, why not just buy huge amounts of surplus Su-25s or A-10s on the cheap? Combined with some SEAD, a swarm of such planes will be far more effective than a missile-loaded herc.

[Coyote]

There's also equipping more Infantry Anti-Tank teams with man-portable systems, or using TOW-equipped Humvees/Jeeps/Land Rovers/etc.

[PeZook]

Well, mangs...I'm gone for the weekend. I leave tomorrow at 8 GMT+1, I'll be back sometime near 20-21 on Sunday.

Sorry Lonestar

[Steve]

With Shroom still out and PeZook gone for the weekend, how about I wait until Monday to post something beginning the World Summit?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

With Shroom still out and PeZook gone for the weekend, how about I wait until Monday to post something beginning the World Summit?

The chit chat in Shinra Republic isn't over yet.

[Ryan Thunder]

There's also equipping more Infantry Anti-Tank teams with man-portable systems, or using TOW-equipped Humvees/Jeeps/Land Rovers/etc.

Aren't those too heavy to be air-dropped with the troops?

[K. A. Pital]

Current UCSR deployments, for Shady (and everyone who wants to know what are the deployments but doesn't want to go inside the spreadsheets). It was easy combining this up from the now completed UCSR Navy and Airforce pictures. I'm currently sick and sit at home all day, so maybe I'll be more active in drawing up various industrial stuff for the game, key word being maybe.

[DarthShady]

Stas I'm going to build a statue to honor your greatness and the awesomeness of your work.

I have added it to the UCSR Nation Profile.

[Siege]

I have added it to the UCSR Nation Profile.

Will it be as big as the thingy on top of the Palace of Soviets? Because that would be awesome; Comrades Lenin and Stanislav looking at each other across the roofs of Stasograd .

[Coyote]

There's also equipping more Infantry Anti-Tank teams with man-portable systems, or using TOW-equipped Humvees/Jeeps/Land Rovers/etc.

Aren't those too heavy to be air-dropped with the troops?

Depends on what they are. The TOW-equipped vehicles probably wouldn't work, but lighter shoulder-fired rockets could work, or you could bring back recoilless rifles. Of shoulder-fired rockets, only a few have a chance against real tanks, but you can easily tear into light scout tanks, armored cars, and logistics vehicles, which will have ripple effects on the tanks. And in some cases, a good infantry AT rocket to the tracks is good enough for a mobility kill, halting the tank in place and creating a logistics snarl as the enemy tries to recover it.

Again, not a perfect solution, but one that beats nothing at all. Even simple RPGs can make heavy vehicles slow down and be cautious, especially in crowded environments (foliage, urban).

[Czechmate]

Firstly, I want to tell everyone that I took a short vacation and have finally relaxed for the first time in many months.

Secondly, I would like to point everyone to http://sdnworld.wikia.com/wiki/Emmeria, which I have redone to better reflect a duchy's military capabilities. Also the fact that anything involving slavs or socialism just never seems to work out for me around here.

Also, the carriers were purchased from Tonkinese builders after being constructed using plans stolen from Westchester (by the Eastchester family ruling Emmeria) for the Ark Royal-class (IRL SCB-101 Midway) medium conventional aircraft carrier. The LVAs are all-Emmerian though. An experiment in using a semi-STOBAR deck configuration to increase the utility of the LHA/D, which is essentially the top of a light carrier mated to the bottom of an LSD.

Lastly, I would like to comment to something I saw whilst catching up.

If you want to get pissy over Tian Jiao, blame the CSR. They're the ones who caused that to happen.

Remember when the PRSF attacked Westchester? You FTO guys were going to intervene, up until the CSR parked a naval fleet in Livorno and declared the PRSF airspace off limits, effectively backing the PRSF in their attack on Westchester. When the FTO left because of that, who did Westchester go to? Their former masters Tian Xia, the only ones who, it seemed, could actually do something about it. And hence went the slide to Tian Jiao.

People seem to have forgotten this. And that is what showed the FTO to be a paper tiger when it came to Imperiums doing anything.

Now, you can try and say "but Czechmate wanted to do that all along!" Well, tough, you can't. Because that is OOC and you can't use it as an in-universe reason. Stas stuck his nose in IU and thus caused that chain of events. If Czech was going to find another way to go to Tian Xia, that's irrelevent now.

Rogue has essentially summed up the situation at that time, as I saw it, in an eerily clairvoyant fashion for which I commend him. I saw that the FTO was trying to help, but that they weren't going to able to do it fast enough, much less in enough strength to keep the self-involving CSR's enforced air superiority against the RWAF(later TJAF) from tipping the balance during an intense little war.

So I turned to Beo and basically fabricated the backstory of Westchester as former Tian Jiao Colony from whole cloth as an IC reason to have a very large power swing in on my side. The price was losing first some and later -all- control over the country, and I accepted that. But for all of you who have believed I planned it all along, you're wrong; it was, as I saw it, my last panic-button option before the CSR-supported People's Republic steamrolled my handful of Brigade Combat Teams and raised the red flag over Caledon...

...but what I -had- planned all along was to puppet and occupy the PRSF in an Iraq-like quagmire complete with italian insurgents, and I had fully planned to -earn- my dominance over my neighbor-state.

RogueIce has basically listed both my IC and OOC reasons for doing what I did, so when I say "believe him", please do.

I hope you guys see the inherent olive-branch in admitting the truth behind the Uranium War.

[DarthShady]

I have added it to the UCSR Nation Profile.

Will it be as big as the thingy on top of the Palace of Soviets? Because that would be awesome; Comrades Lenin and Stanislav looking at each other across the roofs of Stasograd .

Yes, yes it will be.

P.S. Rogue mang where are you? We need to finish up the meeting before things start up in Cascadia.

[Ryan Thunder]

Firstly, I want to tell everyone that I took a short vacation and have finally relaxed for the first time in many months.

Secondly, I would like to point everyone to http://sdnworld.wikia.com/wiki/Emmeria, which I have redone to better reflect a duchy's military capabilities. Also the fact that anything involving slavs or socialism just never seems to work out for me around here.

Perhaps I'm just reading this wrong, but you have twenty brigades? Is that really reasonable?

Can I back-edit my military to about that size if it is?

[Ryan Thunder]

There's also equipping more Infantry Anti-Tank teams with man-portable systems, or using TOW-equipped Humvees/Jeeps/Land Rovers/etc.

Aren't those too heavy to be air-dropped with the troops?

Depends on what they are. The TOW-equipped vehicles probably wouldn't work, but lighter shoulder-fired rockets could work, or you could bring back recoilless rifles. Of shoulder-fired rockets, only a few have a chance against real tanks, but you can easily tear into light scout tanks, armored cars, and logistics vehicles, which will have ripple effects on the tanks. And in some cases, a good infantry AT rocket to the tracks is good enough for a mobility kill, halting the tank in place and creating a logistics snarl as the enemy tries to recover it.

Oh, light vehicles aren't much of an issue. We have boltgunsexplosive shotgun shells and 40mm grenades that can fuck those up well enough already. Hell, our 8mm rifle bullets probably wouldn't do too badly against the lighter vehicles, either.

Its the tanks that are the issue. Presently, every fireteam has a grenadier with an under-barrel grenade launcher by default, and a support gunner with either a grenade launcher or a SAW. Every squad has an anti-tank gunner with a shoulder-launched anti-tank rocket. Some squads have "heavy weapons teams" with automatic 40mm grenade launchers as well.

Does that sound sufficient?

Again, not a perfect solution, but one that beats nothing at all. Even simple RPGs can make heavy vehicles slow down and be cautious, especially in crowded environments (foliage, urban).

Well, we have an experimental Javelin analog in the works (Hint: we may be more likely to go forward with them if somebody else is going to buy them ). Those look pretty large, though. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to conceive of a parachute that can carry a trooper with them, though.

[phongn]

Big armies are lame.

[Siege]

I hope you guys see the inherent olive-branch in admitting the truth behind the Uranium War.

This is all very interesting but as far as I'm concerned it doesn't change a thing. In-context you're the guy who brought Tian Xia to my continent, and out-of-context you're the guy who -guess what- brought Tian Xia to my continent. Why you decided to do so doesn't particularly interest me. Results are what matters, and whichever way you decide to look at it I'm none too pleased with those.

I guess we'll just have to see what you make of this Emmeria place.

[RogueIce]

P.S. Rogue mang where are you? We need to finish up the meeting before things start up in Cascadia.

Most of what I'd say is basically a repeat of my reply to Fin: we both could've handled things better, and we'll work some of it out at the conference (like what the OD is gonna do with Sirnoth and all that). I suppose I could make a post along those lines, but meh. Maybe I'll just handwave it all, and then at some point I'll have a "quiet word" with Fin and that'll be that. But I'll let him respond to my earlier points first if he wants to.

This is all very interesting but as far as I'm concerned it doesn't change a thing. In-context you're the guy responsible for bringing Tian Xia to my continent, and out-of-context you're the guy who -guess what- brought Tian Xia to my continent. Why you decided to do so doesn't particularly interest me. Results are what matters, and whichever way you decide to look at it I'm none too pleased with those.

Technically it's as much (or was, anyway) his continent as it was yours.

(Yeah yeah, I see your point. Just felt like needling a bit. Not to worry, I'll call him out as well, in three...two...one...)

Secondly, I would like to point everyone to http://sdnworld.wikia.com/wiki/Emmeria, which I have redone to better reflect a duchy's military capabilities. Also the fact that anything involving slavs or socialism just never seems to work out for me around here.

What the fuck is up with those aircraft and ship listings?

Code: Select all

~2:2 FG (F-16, F-15C/H)
~2:1 MG (F-15E, A-10)

You have what, two F-16s and two F-15s? And then two F-15Es and only one A-10? Or do those N:n numbers means something else? Same thing with the ships.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Big armies are lame.

Especially if you're an island nation. Unless you expect to be invaded from overseas, they just aren't worth the extra expense; even then, fielding a strong air force, navy, and marine corps would be a more tenable and practical option.

[Steve]

Your defense would be better, Czech, if not for the fact that you were also RPing the PRSF, in fact as I recall it you pretty much invented its animosity and desire to attack Westchester/Tian Jiao.

Stas just decided to monkey around in what he probably saw as a PC setting up a neighboring NPC for a brutal beatdown.

[Beowulf]

Your defense would be better, Czech, if not for the fact that you were also RPing the PRSF, in fact as I recall it you pretty much invented its animosity and desire to attack Westchester/Tian Jiao.

Stas just decided to monkey around in what he probably saw as a PC setting up a neighboring NPC for a brutal beatdown.

In other news, we also see Baerne RPing half of Costa, along with Shady et al RPing the rest of the Border States, Karmic RPing Eutopia, and the FTO doing Sabika. Pretty much everyone ends up RPing' their chosen targets. Czech just had the misfortune of having Stas decide to start meddling.

[Steve]

Indeed. It doesn't justify them either. And that doesn't even count when Veg and I both basically declared wide-ranging alliances existing in Veleria (I tried to justify the one I announced as a response to Japanistan's resurgent interests in Veleria, yes, but looking back I had way too many NPCs sign the Treaty of Hasiyah; OTOH Veg basically declared "my country needs such an alliance to continue their Velerian presence, therefore we negotiated it", along with his attempt to avoid our abolitionist ire by saying his new allies forced him to outlaw the slave trade). We really need some way to fairly run NPCs (granted, there're not many left in this game, but maybe if we ever do Round 3) so they don't become convenient strawmen for us to knock down for amusement.

I'd recommend a system where two types are NPCs are recognized: fully independent NPCs and satellite NPCs. Satellites can be mostly controlled by the PC whom they're satellite too, though really big things could be placed under wider authority. Non-satellite NPCs have to be treated like fellow PCs, with a Player Council directing their responses to diplomatic actions, their activities, etc.

[Master_Baerne]

I RPd only my pet rebels, not the actual Costa government. That, my dear Beowulf, was you.

Just throwing that out there.