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Mr Bean wrote:By contrast you have Adan, which is a major port and former British asset(Something I've never claimed so it was up for grabs) but you know what? It's 341 kms from the water-way between the mainland and that island.

I see you missed part of lonestar's post

Virtually all had found there way here, save the 2-gun battery on railway carriages on the main land, which spent their time in concrete bunkers when not in use, then rolling out for their quarterly shoots

Railway......guns.

Gee, how do you get a railway gun somewhere?

Steve wrote:But I'm agreeing that any number of European powers, including Egypt and/or Byzantium, would have pulled out the stops to prevent the fort from being built, and given the expense of such construction would have made the project untenable to the Dominion from a financial and diplomatic point of view.

Expense?

Sea Skimmer wrote:Something to consider, in 1940 the US found that it could upgrade its entire coastal artillery system, building some 200 new batteries (not all completed) to defend 27 ports and anchorages, for less money then the price of one new battleship. Each of the resulting port defence systems meanwhile was strong enough to repel an attack by a whole enemy battle fleet

Given that lonestar has said:

The "Battleship Holiday" ten years ago had become a boon for the coastal defense artillery corps, with a dozen 16in guns originally intended for new battleships and battle cruisers suddenly navy surplus. Virtually all had found there way here

Up and down the coast were smaller batteries, some of 6in rapid firing guns, others of the 9.2in and 12in types taken off of decommissioned pre-dreadnoughts.

The guns and armor were already paid for by the Navy whether for brand new battleships, or from pre-dreadnoughts that were decomissioned.
is
The biggest expense going to be shipping the guns and armor there. Infrastructure won't be a problem, given that Lonestar's OP says that construction in that region has been going on for 30 years.

Bluewolf wrote:I would like to say that the idea of the USSR occupying Manchuria is one that I am not fond of.

I need a pacifiс port. Hopefully you do realize that any nation pretending to be a superpower, or aiming for such status in the future must have access, and supply facilities and ports, in both Atlantic and Pacific oceans. By Beowulf's good graces on the 1860s treaties I lost that access. Would you rather have me start a war with China over access to Pacific waters? Now that would be damn irrational.

I do not intend to take over the whole Manchuria anyway, only the territories that would be enough to build a pacific fleet installation and provide railway access to supply that city. That is my only goal. I don't need Korea or further territories closer to China.

Bluewolf wrote:The USSR already has a large influence and having that influence spread even further near China is not something I would be willing to accept. Likewise don't want wars in my own backyard.

The USSR is always open to Molotov-Ribbentrop pacts collective security agreements which would give both you and I something from the deal. Like, a part of Manchuria to you and a part of it to me.

Bluewolf wrote:I am sure we both don't want a little Northen brawl as it would harm both of our interests.

I understand that having a Soviet Navy or any Soviet port in the Pacific might not be in your interests. However, I am pretty sure it's in my interests to have one.

That warning was for Beowulf, anyway. Because he's the one who would most likely get attacked. I can't get Pacific access any other way. I warned him before game start, and I warn other powers not to mess with this affair. Else, they would have to do a lot of fighting to convince me otherwise. If China wishes to mess with Manchuria by offering it additional protection in Manchurian's grab of the actually sparsely inhabited (as per reality, and Beowulf's own admission) Far East territories, so be it.

You can go to the Freedom Conference or send your spies into the Special Far East Army military district. Or do something else. The USSR, of course, would take into account the now nascent Chinese threat and act accordingly. The Central Asian military district will be thus mightily reinforced, and I will talk to Mongolians about selling them designs of my advanced stuff, like the full-metal TB-1 or something, in exchange for further assistance.

The Mongolians are always willing to help out those who help them out.

And since our people are always fucking like rabbits, we could always use more grain as well are more tank designs.

That and we'd like Pacific access too, so, who knows what sort of offers we'd be willing to take from anyone.

Khan Angarag is, at heart, a pragmatic man, and he only looks out for Mongolia's interests, so, whoever helps out Mongolia the most will get Mongolia's help.

Edit: Also, after reviewing OrBats, it would seem that, somehow, Mongolia has the largest army in this region, even larger then the Soviets! Well, that's some odd balance of power.

If Russia goes to war, that gives Afghanistan's 45,000 troops a chance to roll into the great snowy lands North and seize power!

Wait, am I having delusions of grandeur again?

Shep, you mentioned wanting a war or two with Afghanistan in your history? Mind giving me some dates so I can work it into my own?

Infrastructure which has the only logical purpose of enabling him to hold one of the world's most vital waterways hostage. Again, an incentive for various states to deal with it before it becomes a problem.

I let you two have your positions because I trusted you to do as you did best: amuse the rest of us by smacking each other around. Instead I'm finding you two are being collaborators in griefing the rest of the world. At this point you should consider it lucky that I'm only saying "No" to "Fort William" being a nigh-impossible-to-beat fortress astride one of the world's most important waterways, because I can always go much, much further if you insist.

EDIT: Steve handled it.

Akhlut, well you have to defend against Super China, Super Manchuria and USSR, so your Army has three ppotential adversaries. Naturally it can be big

Stas, would you like to take this to PM/IM or are you content for chatting here?

MKSheppard wrote:
Railway......guns.

Gee, how do you get a railway gun somewhere?

By using magic, because there never has been a railway there. There's nothing THERE. Why extend the railway into nothing unless you knew ahead of time that the Suez was going to be built Egypt does not have a Navy to threaten you and any Sultunate area fleet would be Gulf based not based out of the Red Sea. There's no logical reason to build a fort there until the Suez is completed. There's no reason to extend the railroad to that area and even then it's going to Adan, Jizan or Sana'a not three hundred miles away from any city.

Your talking extending a railway three hundred miles into the middle of nowhere to a region which is still undevolped because it lacks sources of fresh water or any resources besides dirt and sand because some day down the way it might be useful to build a fort there. Despite being at near constant on again off again war with a next door neighbor country to build a fort that provides ZERO protection against his major enemy and only useful purposes is to force European fleets to come the long way around Africa.



So lets recap
Fort William was built with the aid of a railroad that was constructed thirty years ago into the middle of no where to an area that's famous for having nothing there so ten years down the line they could build a big old fort which is utterly worthless against his major enemy in the area and it's manned with the best damn guns in the entire fleet and no one raises an eyebrow and just sit's back and lets it be built without any question what with them building a Fort that serves NO defensive purposes against the country it is at war with yet is along the second most traded.

It's bullshit piled on bullshit yanked directly out of Lonestar's ass with the help of Sheppard.

Seconded, if at all possible I'd like the outline of a fort and a few artillery pieces, maybe a birth for small ships, but I can't see any sane way that any level of fort could be built under the guns of in region powers. Also since none of our histories call for us losing to the Dominion it would be fair to say that nobody failed at stopping such a fort from being built.

Err, Coyote, I did write that little bit about the Sultanate's Red Sea Fleet sallying bravely forth in order to patrol, you know, the Red Sea... I'm not sure where your intrepid sailors get the idea that they're the only ones doing anything in the Red Sea at that moment. During their passage they were bound to at least encounter the battleship that's moored at Port Tawfik at the city of Suez. There's always at least one, and right now there's probably at least two, with another two on the Red Sea itself .

Siege wrote:Err, Coyote, I did write that little bit about the Sultanate's Red Sea Fleet sallying bravely forth in order to patrol, you know, the Red Sea... I'm not sure where your intrepid sailors get the idea that they're the only ones doing anything in the Red Sea at that moment. During their passage they were bound to at least encounter the battleship that's moored at Port Tawfik at the city of Suez. There's always at least one, and right now there's probably at least two, with another two on the Red Sea itself .

My guys are the only ones (IIRC) in the Gulf of Aquaba, rather than the Red Sea proper. I should have added more detail to that. When I lived there, the Gulf was "The Red Sea" and not really seen as just a little branch of a much larger body...

That explains that then . It makes sense, then. Although I did plan to have my second-largest shipyard located at Sharm el-Sheik, but there's really no way anyone could've known that and it's technically also outside the Gulf of Aqaba.

BTW, Stas, what's the status of Leon Trotsky around this time? In OTL he'd be having a year of despondency and unemployment; not yet gone to Turkey (still a couple years off) and Mexico is a ways in the future. I was wondering if he'd be good for a visit to the Yishuv; I figured the "international socialist brotherhood" flavor of the Jewish-Arab workers' collectives would be a natural magnet for him.

Coyote wrote:BTW, Stas, what's the status of Leon Trotsky around this time? In OTL he'd be having a year of despondency and unemployment; not yet gone to Turkey (still a couple years off) and Mexico is a ways in the future. I was wondering if he'd be good for a visit to the Yishuv; I figured the "international socialist brotherhood" flavor of the Jewish-Arab workers' collectives would be a natural magnet for him.

Incidentally are there any Portuguese or Brazillian Jews out there? Or any of those 'orrible Brazillian Communists? Inquiring minds want to know!

There may be an exceedingly small number of Portuguese Jews out there, but nothing really large. They make up less than a percent of my mainly Catholic population. As for communists, they are a small party, mostly pushed aside when the council of five took over and the nation's fortunes started to improve. Before that they were a strong party with a good deal of popular support who nearly took over but have lost support rapidly since then.

Norade wrote:There may be an exceedingly small number of Portuguese Jews out there, but nothing really large. They make up less than a percent of my mainly Catholic population.

That depends on how one counts conversos, marranos and Xuetas.

EDIT: well, to be honest, that's more Spanish than Portuguese.

Coyote wrote:

Norade wrote:There may be an exceedingly small number of Portuguese Jews out there, but nothing really large. They make up less than a percent of my mainly Catholic population.

That depends on how one counts conversos, marranos and Xuetas.

EDIT: well, to be honest, that's more Spanish than Portuguese.

According to the CIA factbook there are 0.3% others, and 9% of unknown religion. I'm going to assume that a third of the other is Jewish and most of the 9% is not yet surveyed Catholics or other Christians leaving about 0.8% of my population as practicing Jews.

Mr Bean wrote:

MKSheppard wrote: Fjell Fortress in Norway achieved firing status in.......one year from the start of construction (late summer 1942 to June-July 1943) despite having to emplace a 1,000 ton turret from Gneisenau.

Which ignores again the fact There is no infrastructure there

SO FUCKING WHAT.

Not two pages ago you were yammering about possessing a naval base in Diego Garcia. Diego Garcia is several orders of magnitude more isolated than this location. In modern times, a pretty nice base was built there, largely from whatever they could float in on a ship.

Concerns about water? Water barges can be used, like with San Francisco for several decades and Alcatraz up until it's decommissioning. Decommissioned Pre-Dreadnoughts can be used to create fresh water on site until a more permanent solution can be found.

"Physical isolation"? Absolutely nothing compared to some real-world military projects. "No Train?" Kitchener built one mother of a railroad in 3 years across the Sudan. We had somewhat more time than that to work with.

"No reason to do so?" Nonsense. Forgetting for a moment that the presence alone could serve as a deterrence for the entry of Shepistani vessels into the Red Sea, the colony is immediately near two major countries that are filled with co-coreligionists of much of the population. Because of the routine problems the Grand Dominion suffers from native uprisings, it's not unreasonable to assume that they are being instigated by our neighbors, and at some point in the future an uprising could coincide with and actual invasion. In addition, because of the relatively weak nature of the navy, this would be seen as a "easy" way for the "Army lobby" to exert influence overseas.

"This fort is solely to hold the trade routes hostage" Yeah, like Gibraltar, the Dardanelles, and Singapore. Are you whining about them as well? Or are you accepting it as the accident of geography that they are?

"You don't have the cash to do so" I could repeat what Shep did, that a stationary fort of mostly rock and concrete is going to be cheaper than a Castle of Steel, but I'll go one better: I am the ONLY NF 4 that does not have a line ship in commission that has been laid down in the past 10 years. My sole CV comes from the hull of a suspended BC. Just like the US Army in the OTL, guns intended for the original program have found there way into the coastal artillery corps. My AF is maxed out(3+2) but my SML is only 2, which means the trend is that the active military is in garrisons and forts.

"The neighbors won't stand for it!" Why not?
(1)Everyone here has been expressing amazement at the incidents in the Northern Arabian Sea, which makes me suspect that there was no perception of the Grand Dominion or Shepistan being overly aggressive assholes until recently.
(2)In fact, in recent decades neither country has conquered or otherwise annexed it's neighbors. This cannot be said for some members of the coalition assembling a huge fleet.
(3)The relative weak standing of the GDN despite being a NF 4 should, in fact, have given the neighbors and impression that the GDN has a lackadaisical attitude towards the region, at best.
(4)It becomes an issue of risk theory: Do we WANT to go to war over this? Do we want to spend the blood, sweat, and treasure on a "maybe"? The answer may be yes, but maybe not. Especially given the relative lack of overseas adventurism both countries has expressed.

"You and Shep are just doing this to grief us, your hatred was obviously one of convenience."
(1)Not true.

(2)For those of us keeping score, the talk of calling a time out only occurred after the majority of the world's countries managed to come to an agreement by telegram, began deploying large numbers of capital ships to the region, and then magically ignoring that the entire economy of the IO should be being twisted in unnatural ways.

(2a)Even with the agreement of all bordering countries, the availability of fleet anchorages with appropriate facilities will be thin on the ground.

(2b)Constant steaming will screw up maintenance cycles, which will lay up ships. Problem? Even if there are enough spots to pull in to go around, there aren't enough yardworkers. All those yardworkers will have to be shipped in, so housing would have to be found. This will be especially true of specialists.

(2c)Coal and oil prices in the region will skyrocket, no matter how much you try to bring in from home. It's going to happen, and combined with every market being bought out, foodstuff prices will soar as well, and will have to be imported. Probably on refrigeration ships. Ever been in a town off 100,000 or so a week after a CV visited? I have, it looks like the goths took away everything that wasn't nailed down. Make that times 90 or so. Unless you're planning on banning people from liberty, which may fly in some lagoon in the Pacific, but not so much in an urban area. Exceedingly detrimental to morale.

(2d)As operating costs rise so dramatically the budget for the fiscal year is going to wipe out. This is pre-Keynesian economics, so I imagine that there will be a strong disincentive amongst the democracies, at least, to keep chucking money down the hole like that with no shooting going on.

(2e) This is the era of destroyer squadrons grounding along well-charted coasts,all you people who use different signaling systems should be banging into each other, the ground, and fishing dhows left and right. Which brings me to:

(3) NONE OF YOU* are showing an inclination for "playing real" for these deployments, and you have the audacity to to whine about something that is eminently more realistic than what you are treating the effects of your naval deployments?

*Unless someone is writing something up as I post this.

Stas Bush wrote:I need a pacific port. Hopefully you do realize that any nation pretending to be a superpower, or aiming for such status in the future must have access, and supply facilities and ports, in both Atlantic and Pacific oceans. By Beowulf's good graces on the 1860s treaties I lost that access. Would you rather have me start a war with China over access to Pacific waters? Now that would be damn irrational.

I do not intend to take over the whole Manchuria anyway, only the territories that would be enough to build a pacific fleet installation and provide railway access to supply that city. That is my only goal. I don't need Korea or further territories closer to China.

Right. You need a warm water port. One that won't freeze over in the winter. Unfortunately, Vladivostok (or Haishenwai in this world) is not that port. Luckily for you, I gave back Kamchatka, and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky is a warm water port. You can have fun in the North Pacific for all I care with that port. If you really want one where Manchuria is, your sole reasonable option is Lushunko (aka Port Arthur).

The USSR is always open to Molotov-Ribbentrop pacts collective security agreements which would give both you and I something from the deal. Like, a part of Manchuria to you and a part of it to me.

Brilliant! Secret pacts are supposed to be secret.

I understand that having a Soviet Navy or any Soviet port in the Pacific might not be in your interests. However, I am pretty sure it's in my interests to have one.

That warning was for Beowulf, anyway. Because he's the one who would most likely get attacked. I can't get Pacific access any other way. I warned him before game start, and I warn other powers not to mess with this affair. Else, they would have to do a lot of fighting to convince me otherwise. If China wishes to mess with Manchuria by offering it additional protection in Manchurian's grab of the actually sparsely inhabited (as per reality, and Beowulf's own admission) Far East territories, so be it.

You have Pacific access, as I point out above. The Chinese North-East is in reality heavily populated, because China is over populated. The Russian side isn't as much so, because Chinese can't immigrate across the border into the rest of the Manchurian Plain. My borders encompass the entirety of that plain. As such, there's no real barrier to populating the plain with Han Chinese. Jilin Province today has some 27 million people. Primorsky Krai, next door and climitologically similar, largely, has 2 million. And it's bigger than Jilin Province.

North of that plain, you have the Siberian Plateau, which is warm at best during the summer, and mind-numbingly cold in the winter. The coldest place in the northern hemisphere is located in that area. It's not quite as bad in the Plain, because valleys are warmer, and it's further south. IRL, the lands you hold in the east closest to me have a population of a couple million total, today. Back then, the only way to get more people there is to forcibly deport them.

Lonestar wrote: (3) NONE OF YOU* are showing an inclination for "playing real" for these deployments, and you have the audacity to to whine about something that is eminently more realistic than what you are treating the effects of your naval deployments?

*Unless someone is writing something up as I post this.

That is one of the reasons why I'm not shuffling everything I have to the Indian Ocean and am looking for information on refridgeration ships like the Duquesa captured by Admiral Scheer in 1941 as supply vessels:

http://www.bobhenneman.info/bhrcas.htm wrote:On December 18, Admiral Scheer captured the British refrigerator ship Duquesa (8651 tons) with 14.5 million eggs and 3000 tons of meat on board. This proves to be a valuable prize: The Duquesa was used to resupply the auxiliary cruisers Pinguin and Thor, and the supply ship Nordmark

Lonestar wrote:"Physical isolation"? Absolutely nothing compared to some real-world military projects. "No Train?" Kitchener built one mother of a railroad in 3 years across the Sudan. We had somewhat more time than that to work with.

Yes, but once a fort starting being built a single shell on those tracks puts you back a lot of time as trains get stuck at the base and/or can't get to the base for days or more at a time as you need to send out a crew to repair it. Even if we assume that your navy could hold of another navy while battling Shepistan, I have little doubt that more than one nation would want to see this fort fail.

Lonestar wrote:"No reason to do so?" Nonsense. Forgetting for a moment that the presence alone could serve as a deterrence for the entry of Shepistani vessels into the Red Sea, the colony is immediately near two major countries that are filled with co-coreligionists of much of the population. Because of the routine problems the Grand Dominion suffers from native uprisings, it's not unreasonable to assume that they are being instigated by our neighbors, and at some point in the future an uprising could coincide with and actual invasion. In addition, because of the relatively weak nature of the navy, this would be seen as a "easy" way for the "Army lobby" to exert influence overseas.

Whiloe you have a point, it seems funny that this massive giant fort only came to be known in the game after a fleet was being formed and telling that it was never listed in your OOB.

Lonestar wrote:"This fort is solely to hold the trade routes hostage" Yeah, like Gibraltar, the Dardanelles, and Singapore. Are you whining about them as well? Or are you accepting it as the accident of geography that they are?

Which are in better and easier to access places and have historically been used for such a role unlike your base.

Lonestar wrote:"You don't have the cash to do so" I could repeat what Shep did, that a stationary fort of mostly rock and concrete is going to be cheaper than a Castle of Steel, but I'll go one better: I am the ONLY NF 4 that does not have a line ship in commission that has been laid down in the past 10 years. My sole CV comes from the hull of a suspended BC. Just like the US Army in the OTL, guns intended for the original program have found there way into the coastal artillery corps. My AF is maxed out(3+2) but my SML is only 2, which means the trend is that the active military is in garrisons and forts.

Not our fault your navy sucks, and nobody has a problem withy you having forts, it's simply that no nationa would ever allow anything like your fort to be built.

Lonestar wrote:"The neighbors won't stand for it!" Why not?
(1)Everyone here has been expressing amazement at the incidents in the Northern Arabian Sea, which makes me suspect that there was no perception of the Grand Dominion or Shepistan being overly aggressive assholes until recently.
(2)In fact, in recent decades neither country has conquered or otherwise annexed it's neighbors. This cannot be said for some members of the coalition assembling a huge fleet.
(3)The relative weak standing of the GDN despite being a NF 4 should, in fact, have given the neighbors and impression that the GDN has a lackadaisical attitude towards the region, at best.
(4)It becomes an issue of risk theory: Do we WANT to go to war over this? Do we want to spend the blood, sweat, and treasure on a "maybe"? The answer may be yes, but maybe not. Especially given the relative lack of overseas adventurism both countries has expressed.

1) We're surprised because your war was never posted in histories nor was anybody given time to react or respond to the freighter incident seeing as you controlled ships of another players nation to make it happen. So fuck off with thye we were surprised thing and post a proper history of what is obviously a major war.

2) Who cares what we're doing, now, no nation either singly or as part of a group would let that fort be built and give a nation involved in a major war control of such an important stretch of water.

3) No, the building of that fort should still send up warning flags and cause action to be taken. Action whcih your weak fleet couldn't fight off.

4) My nation could not have gone to war before the canal was built, but would have and I'm sure Eygpt wouldn't have sat still for that nor would Shepistan have either.

Lonestar wrote:"You and Shep are just doing this to grief us, your hatred was obviously one of convenience."
(1)Not true.

(2)For those of us keeping score, the talk of calling a time out only occurred after the majority of the world's countries managed to come to an agreement by telegram, began deploying large numbers of capital ships to the region, and then magically ignoring that the entire economy of the IO should be being twisted in unnatural ways.

(2a)Even with the agreement of all bordering countries, the availability of fleet anchorages with appropriate facilities will be thin on the ground.

(2b)Constant steaming will screw up maintenance cycles, which will lay up ships. Problem? Even if there are enough spots to pull in to go around, there aren't enough yardworkers. All those yardworkers will have to be shipped in, so housing would have to be found. This will be especially true of specialists.

(2c)Coal and oil prices in the region will skyrocket, no matter how much you try to bring in from home. It's going to happen, and combined with every market being bought out, foodstuff prices will soar as well, and will have to be imported. Probably on refrigeration ships. Ever been in a town off 100,000 or so a week after a CV visited? I have, it looks like the goths took away everything that wasn't nailed down. Make that times 90 or so. Unless you're planning on banning people from liberty, which may fly in some lagoon in the Pacific, but not so much in an urban area. Exceedingly detrimental to morale.

(2d)As operating costs rise so dramatically the budget for the fiscal year is going to wipe out. This is pre-Keynesian economics, so I imagine that there will be a strong disincentive amongst the democracies, at least, to keep chucking money down the hole like that with no shooting going on.

(2e) This is the era of destroyer squadrons grounding along well-charted coasts,all you people who use different signaling systems should be banging into each other, the ground, and fishing dhows left and right. Which brings me to:

(3) NONE OF YOU* are showing an inclination for "playing real" for these deployments, and you have the audacity to to whine about something that is eminently more realistic than what you are treating the effects of your naval deployments?

*Unless someone is writing something up as I post this.

1) I know Shep at least s known for griefing so it seems natural that that would come up.

2) My fleet at least, has the range and support vessels to conduct limited operations with no base. As for the trade implications of such an act, they effect me not one bit. I would mainly trade with Spain, Germany, France, Italy, Eygpt, and Britain in Europe well as Eastern Canada and the US and some limited trade with South America through Guiana.

2a) Covered above.

2b) I'm not steaming over my maximum endurance for cruising so I see no problem, as for maintaining my fleet, I can do that at home when the operation is over.

2c) It's only a 12 day trip to Egypt and I have support ships to make my fleet go at least that far. As for cost, I'll set aside a budget of IC's for this action and call it a day.

2d) I don't have a democracy so that doesn't matter.

2e) That is why my fleet will be meeting with the other fleets to discus the matters of signaling, or perhaps such a thing has already been discussed. I'm waiting on a PM from Thanas and then my plan will be revealed, in part. As for fishing vessels, I think they may notice a fleet as large as what I'll be running and my Destroyers are good Sea Boats so grounding due to trying to follow the coast simply won't happen.

3) I'm willing to pay what is needed to make this happen, and I'm sure others are too. Besides, not more than the barest details about how the operation is being planned and conducted are yet out so don't make so many assumptions.

The fourteen ships of Destroyer Squadron 11 (DESRON 11) made their way south from San Francisco Bay to San Diego Bay in the late summer of 1923. The squadron was led by Commodore Edward H. Watson, on the flagship destroyer USS Delphy leading the squadron. All were Clemson-class destroyers, less than five years old. The ships turned east to course 095, supposedly into the Santa Barbara Channel, at 21:00.

The ships were navigating by dead reckoning, estimating their positions by their headings and speeds, as measured by propeller revolutions per minute. At that time radio navigation aids were new and not completely trusted. The USS Delphy was equipped with a radio navigation receiver, but her navigator and captain ignored its indicated bearings, believing them to be erroneous. No effort was made to take soundings of water depth. Those operations were not performed because of the necessity to slow the ships down to take measurements. The ships were performing an exercise that simulated wartime conditions, hence the decision was made not to slow down. In this case, the dead reckoning was wrong, and the mistakes were fatal.

As long as your crews don't disregard every safety in place to prevent things stuff like that shouldn't happen.But that is uup to the mods to decide once the operation has truly started.