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Beowulf wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:

Beowulf wrote:There are perfectly reasonable reasons why you would want to have active sensors in place. Plus it's fairly easy to determine if a ship is a warship if they aren't trying to hide the fact. Something to do with the weapons... Also, very few people have actually declared that they've brought warships

You want to attack the trade fair, you will go the way of the Covenant of God. Its that simple.

Ah, but for two things... One, I'm almost a complete unknown. Two, "I'm" not attacking

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Achem...


BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!


Considering we already have a massive organization designed to fight just the same sort of threat I must really question if you can actually do anything to save your sorry ass if you carry on through with this.

Rogue 9 wrote:Man, I'm glad I decided to send a larger escort force than most people... And you realize that people are selling and test-firing weapons systems, and fairly powerful ones at that, right? You want to provide a new test range? *Wishes I'd brought an actual Cascade platform to demonstrate.*

Selling with no delivery now, and show casing onboard a ship. It appears from my reading that that's all that occuring at this trade fair. As to Nitram's comment. That's because you committed the Rape of Terra. This will merely get a lot of people annoyed, and probably not at me, considering that I'm not going to be using my own ships...

Alyrium Denryle wrote:

Stormbringer wrote:

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Even my freighters are rather well armed... We are noticing anomalous active sensor pulses.

Not to any thing like a warships levels otherwise they would be warships. I have a few armed merchies as well but they're a far cry from a real warship.

Oh yeah... but they are well armed for merchants. Lets just say they are not easy marks for pirates, and they are independantly jum-capable, and we all know how evil jumpoints can be.

Actually, unless the pirates operating a total pile, they actually should be able to at least tangle with them on even terms. A freighter simply can't afford to spare the tonnage to truely stand up to a warships. It would simply lack the armor, internal subdivision, excess power generation, etc, etc , that's just plain necessary to compete with a warship on equal terms. So unless we're talking a naval auxiliary or a purpose built armed merchant cruiser (which I think out to be listed or at least declared) they're not going to be up to much more than tackling a small frigate-equivalent.

I said they wouldnt be an easy target, not that they would be able to fight it off.

However, you can rest assured that General Products and Senith do in fact have large purpose-built armed merchant ships. What do you think the huge order of defense sats Zenith contracted will be delivered with? (and yes, they are insured)

As to Nitram's comment. That's because you committed the Rape of Terra. This will merely get a lot of people annoyed, and probably not at me, considering that I'm not going to be using my own ships...

That's why I drew the analogy with the Covenant of God and not the Overseer. Tycho didn't exactly rape Pinnacle (in fact, Pinnacle raped him), but he got his sorry ass smashed anyway. Despite his attack being less than a minor annoyance.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:I said they wouldnt be an easy target, not that they would be able to fight it off.

And if they can't actually fight it off I'd still call them an easy target.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:However, you can rest assured that General Products and Senith do in fact have large purpose-built armed merchant ships. What do you think the huge order of defense sats Zenith contracted will be delivered with? (and yes, they are insured)

Ugh, I think I really am going to have to see what people thing. I'm not too crazy about the notion of uncounted ships that are effectively additional warships.

Beowulf wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:Man, I'm glad I decided to send a larger escort force than most people... And you realize that people are selling and test-firing weapons systems, and fairly powerful ones at that, right? You want to provide a new test range? *Wishes I'd brought an actual Cascade platform to demonstrate.*

Selling with no delivery now, and show casing onboard a ship. It appears from my reading that that's all that occuring at this trade fair. As to Nitram's comment. That's because you committed the Rape of Terra. This will merely get a lot of people annoyed, and probably not at me, considering that I'm not going to be using my own ships...

So, whose ships are you going to use? Krell? Do remember that scanning those faked KSE ships will show large discrepancies, something that will happen if you attack a location protected by warships.

Wait. What? *Reads his OOB more carefully.*

Ugh, I think I really am going to have to see what people thing. I'm not too crazy about the notion of uncounted ships that are effectively additional warships.

Government has little power over them. We dont have much of an eminent domain provision in our constitution. They are used for large bulk orders of shit that is hideously valuable. Like 200 defense sats. They arent used for standard shipping, but are used to ship the goods in mass goverment contracts.

You will see them, but unless they are attacked I can guarantee you they will not see offensive combat.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:

Ugh, I think I really am going to have to see what people thing. I'm not too crazy about the notion of uncounted ships that are effectively additional warships.

Government has little power over them. We dont have much of an eminent domain provision in our constitution. They are used for large bulk orders of shit that is hideously valuable. Like 200 defense sats. They arent used for standard shipping, but are used to ship the goods in mass goverment contracts.

I don't really care who among your people controls them, I'm just not crazy about the notion of ships that are for all intents and purposes light warships. You might not have eminent domain but that's not true for every one. And you still would have them.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:I said they wouldnt be an easy target, not that they would be able to fight it off.

However, you can rest assured that General Products and Senith do in fact have large purpose-built armed merchant ships. What do you think the huge order of defense sats Zenith contracted will be delivered with? (and yes, they are insured)

I doubt that they could fight off anything larger than a destroyer, and why would they be there in the first place?

As to my faked KSE ships, they will be close enough to the real thing to avoid large discrepencies. There is a reason why I changed to using the KSE, remember. I actually did have a good chance of having infilitrated their military industries well enough to basically have complete plans to the ships. They look and feel enough like the real thing that with the addition of sensor jamming, you shouldn't have any chance of figuring it out for a while.

Captain tycho wrote:All foreign trade is monitored by the Royal Manticoran Merchant Service, which is a branch of the military. All RMMS ships are armed with counter-missiles and point-defense, but no offensive systems. However, they are almost always escorted by either LACs or several destroyers, depending on the size of the convoy.

FTL LACS?

Beowulf wrote:There are perfectly reasonable reasons why you would want to have active sensors in place. Plus it's fairly easy to determine if a ship is a warship if they aren't trying to hide the fact. Something to do with the weapons... Also, very few people have actually declared that they've brought warships

Because I have two fleets in defense of the area. Are you so sure you want to try attacking?

I have a destroyer Flotilla, and my freighters are armed with a defense grid, the Zeniths are armed with 1 heavy laser, and the General Products have 2 heavy plasma cannons. Turret mounted.

For my part, you're dealing with destroyers from Sixth Fleet that have undergone joint combat operations with the Krytosian navy. Captain Zzrinka and the Polaris in particular were active in the anti-Covenant joint raids with the KSE prior to the invasion of the Covenant inner systems. I doubt that it would take too terribly long to notice.

How, Beowulf, are you distinguishing Military vessels from civilian ones?

Military vessels are physically differently shaped, are equipped with a variety of potent weapons sytems, scanners, ECM, and shielding, plus much larger and more powerful engines.

So, you could read a ship's shape. Besides passive optics, there's no way to do this without active radar or some other active sensor. Passive optics only work so well, since they are lightspeed sensors- hardly enough to track this massive fleet of ships, many of which are lightminutes out.

The weapons, on most of these vessels, are not going to be on. My escort ships are certainly not running weapons hot, gunports open at the trade conference. You'd be able to pick up the Ravenlock ships (Yeah, half the fucking Ravenlock fleet is here, and they have an early warning sensor net, I know because I was planning some pirate attacks and talked extensively about it with Hotfoot. You don't have the Krytos-style firepower to take that.) So, unless you use active sensors to search these vessels for weapons, you will fail in most cases.

Military grade ships won't be using their active sensors here, perhaps with the exception of the Ravenlock vessels. Why would they? So tracking active sensors back to their sources won't work.

ECM systems are for combat, and I know my ships aren't launching decoys and chaff right now.

Shielding? Why have combat shielding up at a trademeet? Once again, you'd need to use active scans to detect the powerful generators on most vessels.

Also, I have a pair of destroyers and a light cruiser in the area, which, admittedly, won't do much against a major attack, but it would bring down the RMN against Beowulf if he so much as touches any of my ships.

I must now thank Hotfoot for his reply to my request...

By the way, I suspected something like this might happen, and have made rather detailed plans to prevent any such blatant attacks from actually doing any serious harm. The second hostile ships are detected inbound, Delta Fleet will recall its escorts from patrol and Alpha Fleet will be called in. Visiting escorts will be recalled (they'll get back to the fair faster than anyone coming in, the way the rally points were designed), and so any attackers will have to deal with a very nasty nest of military ships.

Beowulf, this is suicide, plain and simple.

Beowulf wrote:I must now thank Hotfoot for his reply to my request...

I should also mention that the Veithans, Gladshiem, Vampires, AND Ousters all have fleets nearby as well...

Unless your entire fleet is dedicated to this attack, you're going to get owned, HARD.

Should have just let him do it. I didn't tell Tycho that attacking Pinnacle wasn't such a hot idea. As I see it, if you've listed out what you have where (I did) then its their job to read your OOB. Hotfoot, in this case, you've already said you had warships protecting the trademeet. At that point, its his job to pay attention.

Rogue 9 wrote:Should have just let him do it. I didn't tell Tycho that attacking Pinnacle wasn't such a hot idea. As I see it, if you've listed out what you have where (I did) then its their job to read your OOB. Hotfoot, in this case, you've already said you had warships protecting the trademeet. At that point, its his job to pay attention.

Yeah, well, I'm not in the mood to write a huge battle post at the moment. Besides, with Thirdfain heading off for a month, we'll need some durable villians to last us until he gets back. Beowulf would be dead inside a week or two if he attacked now.

Force Decleration:

The Deadly Viper Pirate Squad
Shadowrun, Dead Prostitute, Killfrenzy, Black Alice

Hired by the BIC into the Hajr's service. They are now freebooters, equipped with modern weapons. Their plans to hit the trrade fair had fallen through, so they decided to merely make some peaceful trade, pick up some leads for later, and leave peacebly. Their vessels are disguised, and due to their recent refits, are quite unrecognizable from the fleet of pirate ships that plaged Arcane and CoG space five months before.

Should something befall the Floater nomads who are currently hosting them, they would certainly take notice.

"They were old-model strike cruisers, for the most part, some of them literally living relics of the Genocide Wars- vessels which had survived the Asgard guns, and gone into hiding, forced into piracy. Any trace of the old Unified Navy paint-jobs, symbols, or honor were long gone. The craft had been modified, rebuilt, damaged, and haphazardly repaired dozens of times over the intervening century. A few were newer craft, constructed in secret over the years. At the center of the formation hung a grandiose old Mohaimese Attack Carrier- the Black Alice, named for the first Floater vessel to die in the Genocide wars in the skirmish that started it all. "

2 Shadowrun class Strike Cruisers, w/ Chinese and Nashtar weapons+ Durandelian shields. Heavily modified.
1 Dragonsbreath class Strike Cruiser w/ Minmatar weapons + Durandelian shields. Heavily modified.
1 Mother Void class Attack Carrier, w/ a huge variety of odd fighter craft and a single Krytosian Fusion Cannon.

3 Firestorm gunships
4 Shadowstorm Strike Frigates

*note that compared to modern ships, these "strike cruisrs" are closer to light cruisers, and the Black Alice is battlecruiser sized at best.

Rogue 9 wrote:Should have just let him do it. I didn't tell Tycho that attacking Pinnacle wasn't such a hot idea. As I see it, if you've listed out what you have where (I did) then its their job to read your OOB. Hotfoot, in this case, you've already said you had warships protecting the trademeet. At that point, its his job to pay attention.

I think it's more that we don't want another long galactic scale war too tired out from the last one.

No shit. Everyone would actually have a reason to be pissed off this time; he'd be really screwed. I mean, seriously. The attack on Pinnacle was no skin off of anyone else's nose, yet everyone ganged up and beat the Covenant to death anyway. (And there I was getting settled in for a nice long war...) Here, representatives of almost every nation would be attacked.

And Straha, my battle group's still waiting for clearance to break Earth orbit. (On that note, I'm surprised you didn't freak out more to discover that I had a carrier battle group still at Earth while your men were facing down Fisher over Toril. Oh well.)