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Rogue 9 wrote: 2017-12-27 01:05amWhich is just more of the blatant incompetence required to keep the poor excuse for a plot this movie has lurching forward. Who the hell keeps their warships sitting around running on fumes?

Ugh, that means it was Ackbar, if he was ranking officer.

Rogue 9 wrote: 2017-12-27 01:05am

LadyTevar wrote: 2017-12-27 12:39am

JI_Joe84 wrote: 2017-12-26 11:04pm
Neu BSG dealt with this scenario in "33" I think it was. Adm. Adama did just what you described to shake the cylons.

You did remember about the FUEL ISSUE, didn't you? None of them had the fuel for more jumps, and the First Order had more ships.

Which is just more of the blatant incompetence required to keep the poor excuse for a plot this movie has lurching forward. Who the hell keeps their warships sitting around running on fumes?

They're a fucking resistance, who says they have access to good logistics?

They are CALLED the Resistance, but at least in TFA (or more accurately the supplementary material to TFA) they were more like Leia's private paramilitary force largely staffed by her old rebel friends, most of whom have previously been portrayed as highly competent experienced war veterans. They were being secretly funded by the Republic to the extent that the First Order were well aware of where their resources were coming from but couldn't prove it.

Of course in this film it turns out that the best Leia could scrape together was 400 people on three ships at the START of the chase, so presumably that clandestine support didnt amount to very much.

Ace Pace wrote: 2017-12-27 02:06am

Rogue 9 wrote: 2017-12-27 01:05amWhich is just more of the blatant incompetence required to keep the poor excuse for a plot this movie has lurching forward. Who the hell keeps their warships sitting around running on fumes?

They're a fucking resistance, who says they have access to good logistics?

A resistance movement whose leadership is made up of veterans of the Rebellion. You know, the Rebellion that fought and actually WON a few times against an empire that ruled the whole galaxy? You know, the Rebellion that DIDN'T get wiped out by the Galactic Empire because it ran out of gas?

The Rebellion didn't get tracked after jumps to their depots, the Resistance did because the FO has new tech. If the Rebels couldn't evade the Empire, lose them with a few hyperjumps, and settle on Hoth, they would have ended up running out of gas soon after Yavin too...

The more I think about it, the more pissed I am with TLJ, Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy and the entire bunch of fucktards leading Lucasarts now.

Comical take of TLJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v2PV52WNLY

Serious take on TLJ, pretty much sums up my thoughts clearly, although I don't fully agree with some of the last parts, but I can understand their point of view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1_hCdLs0Vg

While I am not at the point that saying TLJ is the worst movie ever, hey there's TPM, it's coming close. At least Jar Jar binks was a clown who had almost zero consequence on SW lore and continuity.

Like minded folks, I would love to hear your rants. Let's discuss about how things fucked up so badly and what you hated about TLJ.

FUCK TLJ and FUCK Rian Johnson, and FUCK Lucasarts for letting him make more movies. I'm calling in my bounty hunters!!!

LucasArts is back?

This is just pathetic, and petty.

Worst movie ever, a Star Wars film you didn't like? In a universe where shit like Nazi propaganda films exist? Please.

And, you know, we have a thread for TLJ already. More than one in fact. But I guess maybe its a blessing that your wining is being done here, rather than polluting those threads.

In my haste, I missed a few words. TLJ is now a contestant for the worst SW movie ever. It totally fucks up everything about the new trilogy.

But seriously, unless you are some dumb fuck fanboy, I challenge you to satisfactorily address the various plotholes and inconsistencies in TLJ. You can't. Even Rian FUCKING Johnson in some of his comments were reading like "I don't give a fuck, I'm just redoing things from scratch and everything before TLJ can fuck off", and he got upset when people were RIGHTFULLY upset that we get no backstory or lame backstory for Snoke and Rey.

Well... FUCK Rian Johnson.

Shroom Man 777 wrote: 2017-12-27 06:34pm The Rebellion didn't get tracked after jumps to their depots, the Resistance did because the FO has new tech. If the Rebels couldn't evade the Empire, lose them with a few hyperjumps, and settle on Hoth, they would have ended up running out of gas soon after Yavin too...

Indeed. It fits with the film's theme of generational change. The Rebellion's whole thing was to be on the move, which doesn't work any more.

Presumably, salvation against the FO's obscene weapons of war won't come from throwing another ragtag fleet at it, but rather at the hands of a popular uprising. Star Wars went from a film to a story that defined a generation of entertainment, as did the events of those films in the universe they portray. Weirdly, TFA is also a story about about Star Wars fans reenacting the events of the OT. Kylo Ren is playing Vader, and the First Order is playing Empire. Meanwhile Rey is infatuated with the Rebellion and stories thereof. The film unfolds with everyone doing ANH. I'd like to see that continue in the ST, where the Rebellion/Resistance goes from being a distinct entity to a popular idea that belongs to everyone.

How can it fuck up a trilogy when the third film doesn't exist yet?

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, of course.

I just find hyperbolic ranting about some film sucking silly, most of the time. Every now and then, there's a film that genuinely deserves it, but most of the time, its just the kind of stuff that gives a fandom a bad name.

Especially since I actually tend to end up enjoying a lot of movies that the internet bandwagon designates as "bad films" (X-men 3, I, Robot, Pirates of the Caribbean 3, Attack of the Clones, to name some examples).

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 10:49pm In my haste, I missed a few words. TLJ is now a contestant for the worst SW movie ever. It totally fucks up everything about the new trilogy.

But seriously, unless you are some dumb fuck fanboy, I challenge you to satisfactorily address the various plotholes and inconsistencies in TLJ. You can't. Even Rian FUCKING Johnson in some of his comments were reading like "I don't give a fuck, I'm just redoing things from scratch and everything before TLJ can fuck off", and he got upset when people were RIGHTFULLY upset that we get no backstory or lame backstory for Snoke and Rey.

Well... FUCK Rian Johnson.

Rightfully? Are you somehow owed a backstory for Snoke, or more for Rey?

Are you similarly annoyed that the purge of the EU has removed the origin of Han's stripey pants?

Gandalf wrote: 2017-12-27 10:59pm

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 10:49pm In my haste, I missed a few words. TLJ is now a contestant for the worst SW movie ever. It totally fucks up everything about the new trilogy.

But seriously, unless you are some dumb fuck fanboy, I challenge you to satisfactorily address the various plotholes and inconsistencies in TLJ. You can't. Even Rian FUCKING Johnson in some of his comments were reading like "I don't give a fuck, I'm just redoing things from scratch and everything before TLJ can fuck off", and he got upset when people were RIGHTFULLY upset that we get no backstory or lame backstory for Snoke and Rey.

Well... FUCK Rian Johnson.

Rightfully? Are you somehow owed a backstory for Snoke, or more for Rey?

Are you similarly annoyed that the purge of the EU has removed the origin of Han's stripey pants?

Yes, I am. I don't follow much EU. And fuck you too.

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 11:09pm Yes, I am. I don't follow much EU. And fuck you too.

Fascinating. What else do they owe you? Are others owed it? Is there a chart somewhere?

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 11:09pm

Gandalf wrote: 2017-12-27 10:59pm

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 10:49pm In my haste, I missed a few words. TLJ is now a contestant for the worst SW movie ever. It totally fucks up everything about the new trilogy.

But seriously, unless you are some dumb fuck fanboy, I challenge you to satisfactorily address the various plotholes and inconsistencies in TLJ. You can't. Even Rian FUCKING Johnson in some of his comments were reading like "I don't give a fuck, I'm just redoing things from scratch and everything before TLJ can fuck off", and he got upset when people were RIGHTFULLY upset that we get no backstory or lame backstory for Snoke and Rey.

Well... FUCK Rian Johnson.

Rightfully? Are you somehow owed a backstory for Snoke, or more for Rey?

Are you similarly annoyed that the purge of the EU has removed the origin of Han's stripey pants?

Yes, I am. I don't follow much EU. And fuck you too.

From what contractual obligation do you derive this right?

Gandalf wrote: 2017-12-27 11:15pm

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 11:09pm Yes, I am. I don't follow much EU. And fuck you too.

Fascinating. What else do they owe you? Are others owed it? Is there a chart somewhere?

Yeah, that bothers me too. The sense of fan entitlement.

No, writers/directors/studios/actors don't owe you a fucking thing. They make what they think will best achieve their goals, whatever those may be, weather its to tell a good story or make a point or just make money or whatever else. If it interests you, you can choose to see it/pay them money to see it. That is, generally, the extent of the obligations you have to each other.

The only time that I sympathize with fans feeling they are owed something is in a case of false/misleading advertising, and that's probably not going to be the fault of the writers or directors or actors or anyone on the crew. That's going to fall, in all probability, at the feet of the marketing division/execs.

And the very last thing that I want is for every story to be written around trying to pander the collective will of the fandom. Because you will never get the fandom to agree to everything, you will never be able to match everyone's unrealistic expectations, and the result will be the worst kind of "written by committee".

Indeed, I would argue that one of the problems with the new trilogy, certainly TFA (Still haven't seen TLJ, God damn it), is that its written too much with "appeasing the critics of the previous films" in mind. It was pretty clearly written, in part, as an apology for the Prequels to bitter OT fans. And it was rightly criticized for being too imitative of the OT.

If you disagree... spend five minutes scrolling through the titles/story descriptions on a typical fanfic archive. Read the sadomasochistic Hurt/Comfort fics. The gratuitous slash fics. The thinly-veiled rape fetish fics. The inevitable Kylo/Rey fics.

Then, if your brain hasn't bled out your ears yet, come back and tell me that writers and directors owe the fandom one fucking thing when it comes to deciding the direction of the story.

TFA wasn't too bad, yes it was ANH v2, and it would better if they did something different, but they took the "if it's not broken, don't change it philosophy". I can live with that.

Have you even seen TLJ, clearly you have not as you have said. Why not watch it and see how much you can stomach it? It's a story written by a fucking idiot.

All you fucking losers, show me some arguments that justify/defend the ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE STORY in TLJ. All you have is a bunch on red-herring/non-sequitur about entitement, and you know what that's besides the point that TLK WAS A TOTAL SHITSHOW. And yes, I am an entitled fan, so what?

Seriously, we've had more critical/hardcore people on this forum a decade ago. If you thought TPM/AOTC/ROTS was bad, TLJ is FUCKING FUCKING worse. Maybe not worse than TPM, but it's getting there.

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 11:35pmHave you even seen TLJ, clearly you have not as you have said. Why not watch it and see how much you can stomach it? It's a story written by a fucking idiot.

I actually really enjoyed it. Was it perfect? No. But it worked well enough and I had fun.

All you fucking losers, show me some arguments that justify/defend the ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE STORY in TLJ. All you have is a bunch on red-herring/non-sequitur about entitement, and you know what that's besides the point that TLK WAS A TOTAL SHITSHOW. And yes, I am an entitled fan, so what?

You show 'em! How dare people enjoy a film!? None understand your struggle to get what you're owed.

loomer wrote: 2017-12-27 11:22pmFrom what contractual obligation do you derive this right?

When Disney bought Lucasfilm, I believe there was a fanboy entitlements clause in the contracts.

I rather liked it, the Rey/Kylo ends especially. The fleet-side stuff was working in a different paradigm than I was used to so I had to mentally readjusted, but there were some interesting themes running throughout (just carried out better on the Jedi end). It was definitely working on playing with our expectations, and it did show a fair knowledge of what those explanations were.

It deconstructed the 'be the hero,' inclination of star wars and had it fail and people rejecting heroism... but in the end, it also had some great heroic moments and reconstructed it some as well. There were a number of clever moments in there, and I ended up liking what they did with Luke and Holdo.

Gandalf wrote: 2017-12-27 11:40pm

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 11:35pmHave you even seen TLJ, clearly you have not as you have said. Why not watch it and see how much you can stomach it? It's a story written by a fucking idiot.

I actually really enjoyed it. Was it perfect? No. But it worked well enough and I had fun.

All you fucking losers, show me some arguments that justify/defend the ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE STORY in TLJ. All you have is a bunch on red-herring/non-sequitur about entitement, and you know what that's besides the point that TLK WAS A TOTAL SHITSHOW. And yes, I am an entitled fan, so what?

You show 'em! How dare people enjoy a film!? None understand your struggle to get what you're owed.

loomer wrote: 2017-12-27 11:22pmFrom what contractual obligation do you derive this right?

When Disney bought Lucasfilm, I believe there was a fanboy entitlements clause in the contracts.

Ah, well, in that case let's get the class action ready. I mean I enjoyed it too - wasn't great but it was a fun watch - but if I stand to gain sweet, sweet angry fan dollars I can change my mind.

AndroAsc's unnecessary rage thread merged.

AndroAsc wrote: 2017-12-27 11:35pm TFA wasn't too bad, yes it was ANH v2, and it would better if they did something different, but they took the "if it's not broken, don't change it philosophy". I can live with that.

Have you even seen TLJ, clearly you have not as you have said. Why not watch it and see how much you can stomach it? It's a story written by a fucking idiot.

I've seen it three times. I think its a good film.

[All you fucking losers, show me some arguments that justify/defend the ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE STORY in TLJ. All you have is a bunch on red-herring/non-sequitur about entitement, and you know what that's besides the point that TLK WAS A TOTAL SHITSHOW. And yes, I am an entitled fan, so what?

Well now that you've called it 'terrible' without explaining why I guess that's the default position.

The story was great. Because it wasn't about the specific details of how hyperspace tracking worked, or the credits cost of building a Mandator dreadnought. It was about characters and theme.

Kylo had amazing character development. As did his complex relationship with Luke. Rey confronting all of this and being just an embodiment that the force didn't 'belong' to the Skywalkers or the Jedi. It subverted your expectations of a formulaic (let's be honest, after 9 movies it is formulaic) of heroes pluck saving the day against the bad empire.

If it's not broken don't change it is what gets you stagnation and mediocrity. Look at how incredibly shitty 'conventional' superhero movies are now about stopping BadMan and the McGuffin that probably shoots a blue beam into the sky. That kind of thinking gets you Suicide Squad.

Vympel wrote: 2017-12-28 12:36am Well now that you've called it 'terrible' without explaining why I guess that's the default position.

Yes, that is totally how things work!

I think I've discussed and processed it enough that I'm ready to see it again. This video clinched the decision for me...