New ST-V-SW Site!

[Trekdestroyer]

I think that two things should happen:
1. This thread should be moved to the HoS.
2. As well as stickied

I think it would be wise to move this thread because we don't want the people on the other board spying here. I mean it could cause them to use our statements against us. That's all I have to say.

Trekdestroyer out

[Praxis]

When you move this, they'll follow the move

[Trekdestroyer]

Que el joder?

[Rogue 9]

Yeah, we know DarkStar has a sleeper account here. He's quoted stuff in HoS in the past; it wouldn't help.

[Trekdestroyer]

Yeah, we know DarkStar has a sleeper account here. He's quoted stuff in HoS in the past; it wouldn't help.

I hope you are joking because that should be theoreticaly impossible. Darkstar will always be what he is and will never be able to hold an account here. The main point is that even if he maintained a low profile, we would eventuly pick up his posting style.

PS: 'Que el joder' means WTF in Spanish for all of you non Spanish speakers.

[Hardy]

Yeah, we know DarkStar has a sleeper account here. He's quoted stuff in HoS in the past; it wouldn't help.

I hope you are joking because that should be theoreticaly impossible. Darkstar will always be what he is and will never be able to hold an account here. The main point is that even if he maintained a low profile, we would eventuly pick up his posting style.

That's not the point of having the sock. He just has the account for the sole purpose of reading HoS. Obviously, it's not active.

[Solauren]

And unfortunately, preventing that is next to impossible.

Oh well, let Dorkstar have a sleeper account. I bet he brags about his 'lite skills' at having one on a board he's banned on.

[Dark Hellion]

'lite skills'

I hope that was intentional, cuz its damn funny.

[Ghost Rider]

I think that two things should happen:
1. This thread should be moved to the HoS.
2. As well as stickied

I think it would be wise to move this thread because we don't want the people on the other board spying here. I mean it could cause them to use our statements against us. That's all I have to say.

Trekdestroyer out

Ah, thank you...I see we have a new mod on board

[Elheru Aran]

"only found in the EU"??? WTF?

Need I name the Hoth scene in ESB and the forest on Endor in ROTJ? Or do you refer to the AT-PT?

He's saying that Darkstar claims that the name All Terrain Scout Transport comes only from EU

The name, then? Okay... I half thought it was the vehicle itself being referred to, but I guess that'd be moronical, even for Dorkstar.... thanks for the clarification.

[Praxis]

http://www.strek-v-swars.net/phpBB2/vie ... =2402#2402

Scroll down to my post that starts with "Wait a second." Alyeska, please watch this thread. I'm calling Newland out, to prove his "Photon torps are 100 megatons!" claim, and trying to convince him to settle for 25 megatons (the other estimate on his own site). If he agrees, or obviously loses to all, then you can make sure he stops spouting his "100 megaton torpedo" claim.

[SCVN 2812]

I believe they were deemed to not be that powerful, just able to penetrate Borg shields because they operate on frequencies. If you've seen the episode, you'll notice that the torp hits and the explosion only occurs a few seconds later, meaning that they're probably a chain reaction weapon.

Or that effect has something to do with the "phasic" moniker of the torpedo. "Phasic" could mean any number of things.

All ships in Star Trek operate on frequencies anyway. How did they determine that only Borg ships would be weak to the torpedo?

Brian

Maybe it would work on all enemies, but they're expensive so they're only used when they're needed? If you want to know I suggest you do a board search. I'm only speaking from memory here.

My personal theory is that they phase through shields and the hull and detonate within a ship based on the explosion delay and the phasic attachment.

As for why not to use it (apologies if it was dealt with elsewhere in this behemoth thread) it would be fairly suicidal.

The armor renders ships practically invincible but not completely. Being ablative armor, the armor generators are subject to attrition though dramatically superior numbers would be required to do the job in any reasonable amount of time.

With no known counter measure to the torpedoes they would inevitably be seen as a sort of doomsday weapon by the Federation's allies and enemies alike. And it is. Should the Federation manage to produce enough of the torpedoes and arm ships patroling key regions of its borders with them, the Federation becomes nearly unassailable.

A pre-emptive strike while it is still possible to make one is a very likely outcome. At the very least the region would become polarized against the Federation setting things up for a new cold war and likely a total war that would make the Dominion War look like a minor police action.

Section 31 aside, the Federation's internal security leaks like a sieve and after so many defections and state secrets lost in so short an amount of time the tendency for the Federation and its people to just plug the ears and cover their eyes and hope something bad will just go away would almost certainly be overridden. As evidenced by the lack of the weapons and armor to turn the Scimitar into a rapidly expanding cloud of vapor with at best the Enterprise-E needing a new coat of paint in Nemesis, someone somewhere in the Federation pointed out that there was no way in hell they'd get enough ships supplied with transphasic torpedoes and ablative armor matrices fast enough to deter a pre-emptive strike that would cause massive devastation and possibly even destroy the Federation.

The invincible starfleet is dependant on two key factors:

- Outfitting thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of ships with the new armor and torpedoes in a timely manner with a government that suffers from crippling beauracracy. That ships can probably do the upgrades themselves is important but would still take time since it would be madness to broadcast technical information on these systems over even the most well coded channels so ships have to be given the necessary information the old fashioned way.

- Doing this in total secrecy. Again, the Federation is somewhat notorious for not being able to keep secrets well. Outfitting the entire fleet with transphasic torpedoes and ablative armor generators is not going to be easy to keep under wraps. Rumors will spread of advanced new weapons and defenses, sleeper agents will find ways to send the information back to HQ.

When HQ receives said information, all hell breaks loose. Sanctions result and even in the post-Dominion war Federation there is almost sure to still be a fear of militaries and while the armor might be passable the torpedoes would be decried as an effort to militarize the Federation and Starfleet.

The Federation, not wanting to fight another war or even a cold war so soon after another one that had cost the lives of billions would probably just as soon put aside its ambitions of invincibility rather than face a galaxy where diplomacy would pretty much loose all value. Not to mention it would be difficult to adequetely defend every last one of the 150+ member states and the thousands of colonies and protectorates. Not unlike third world attempts to strike back at the first, the other powers of the galaxy would have no way of beating the Federation in a conventional war but instead would have to attack the Federation where it is most vulnerable: its civilians in the hopes that if enough innocent blood is spilled the Federation will back down and restore the balance of power.

The Klingons were ready to go to war over the Genesis Device, how many races would ally against the Federation when the Federation's trump card was finally revealed? The Alpha and Beta quadrants isn't a region where superweapons are looked well on. Note the absence of any large stockpiles of doomsday weapons. Doomsday weapons are usually either in the prototypical stage or a limited production thing so that secrecy is more easily maintained. It seems the civilizations of the Alpha and Beta quadrants are not eager to see a scenario not unlike the US-USSR nuclear stand off develop on an interstellar scale.

[SirNitram]

Paramount has apparently stated that yes, the Tranphasic Torpedos are simply Borg-Specific weapons. This makes perfect sense for those of us who actually know what 'Phase' means and what use it could have in shields. They penetrate Borg shields by exploiting some weakness.

As for the armor rendering the thing 'nearly invincible'? Come off it. The Defiant has ablative armor too, and it's hardly invincible. Hell, the armor is being steadily blown through by the Borg. The only difference is, being physical object and not energy shielding with a frequency, they couldn't adapt to it, whatever empty bluster the Queen made.

[SCVN 2812]

Paramount has apparently stated that yes, the Tranphasic Torpedos are simply Borg-Specific weapons. This makes perfect sense for those of us who actually know what 'Phase' means and what use it could have in shields. They penetrate Borg shields by exploiting some weakness.

As for the armor rendering the thing 'nearly invincible'? Come off it. The Defiant has ablative armor too, and it's hardly invincible. Hell, the armor is being steadily blown through by the Borg. The only difference is, being physical object and not energy shielding with a frequency, they couldn't adapt to it, whatever empty bluster the Queen made.

Wandering through a nebula with various Borg Cubes which are capable of vivisecting Federation ships pounding on you implies the ablative armor used by Voyager was a bit more sturdy. Against weapons of the 2370s, early 80s of the normal ABQ powers the armor would be 'practically invincible.' Massive numerical superiority would be needed to fight on even terms with a ship equipped with this armor until Borg and beyond level weapons are devised, which would likely not be soon enough to do anyone any real good.

[SirNitram]

Paramount has apparently stated that yes, the Tranphasic Torpedos are simply Borg-Specific weapons. This makes perfect sense for those of us who actually know what 'Phase' means and what use it could have in shields. They penetrate Borg shields by exploiting some weakness.

As for the armor rendering the thing 'nearly invincible'? Come off it. The Defiant has ablative armor too, and it's hardly invincible. Hell, the armor is being steadily blown through by the Borg. The only difference is, being physical object and not energy shielding with a frequency, they couldn't adapt to it, whatever empty bluster the Queen made.

Wandering through a nebula with various Borg Cubes which are capable of vivisecting Federation ships pounding on you implies the ablative armor used by Voyager was a bit more sturdy. Against weapons of the 2370s, early 80s of the normal ABQ powers the armor would be 'practically invincible.' Massive numerical superiority would be needed to fight on even terms with a ship equipped with this armor until Borg and beyond level weapons are devised, which would likely not be soon enough to do anyone any real good.

Funny, the Defiant took quite a few hits from a Cube before she submitted. I smell fanwank. *sniff, sniff*

I love this 'a few decades difference means it's invincible!' when a TOS era ship is able to brawl with the Defiant...

[Ma Deuce]

That's not the point of having the sock. He just has the account for the sole purpose of reading HoS. Obviously, it's not active.

He'd have to make a few posts or the account would be deleted in one of the Great Purges. Of course, he may simply sign up a new account after that happens and heep doing it after every Purge.

[SCVN 2812]

Time isn't that much of a factor as far as I'm concerned, though the original wankage would be Voyager's batmobile armor and Borg-buster torps in the first place. It was afterall Voyager that treated us to the ablative armor equipped shuttlecraft taking a minute or two of punishment from two Negh'Vars. Its not that large of a leap to scale the scenario to a full sized starship and consider it not nearly as favorable for the Negh'Vars. Not impossibly so but the need for greater numerical superiority against a ship equipped with the newer version of the armor is obvious depending on the sizes of ships involved. Having not seen End Game in some years now, just what would be numerically superior enough is up to suggestion.

If the torps are merely Borg-busters then that actually makes the armor a lot less controversial. To blatantly backpeddal for a paragraph or two. Looking at it a little differently, its probably more the ability to destroy a cube with just 1-2 torpedoes before the cube can crack the armor that creates the impression of the armor being radically superior to the old. Something I didn't think of at first. The beating Voyager took may very well just be a scaled up version of what the Defiant took in First Contact or it might be improved in survivability. Against superior numbers or firepower the armor prolongs the inevitable without the torpedoes and torpedo firing arcs are generally restricted to the fore and aft so in hindsight the armor is valuable but not invaluable.

With any luck I made a better choice of wording this time, invincibility in this case would be very much relative to the opponent and the battlefield conditions and tactics used. Used right and with the appropriate weapons it could be decisive enough to upset the balance of power but sounds as if the Federation would be limited to photons and quantums which had Voyager been limited to, it probably wouldn't have made it to Earth.

Another potential problem is the Breen energy dampening weapon. In order to shield themselves from it, the Romulans, Klingons and Cardassians are no doubt familiar enough with it to produce their own versions. If I remember correctly it was a shield modification that defeated the energy dampening weapon, a modification probably not possible for the Voyager armor since ablative armor didn't do the Defiant much good against it, just allowed for an FX feast as the ship is pummeled with torpedoes.

[LordShaithis]

Hats off to Vympel, he's really pwning asses over there.

[Vympel]

*takes a bow*

And to think I only cut my teeth on vs debating back when Darkstar had his board

[Darth Lucifer]

http://www.strek-v-swars.net/phpBB2/vie ... =2362#2362

I had to share my comments at the new site.

In case my post on that page is stricken, here is the original text:

I can't believe I've been watching this thread for this long.

(jumps on soapbox)

I was raised on Trek. I posted in another thread how much of it I've watched. I've also been exposed to my fair share of Star Wars, as well as other sci-fi. I can safely say I am not biased.

So as a neutral third party, I have to make a decision now and throw in with the quote unquote "Warsies."

I understand the passion of the Trek people...it stems from this phony notion that Star Trek is somehow superior to every other form of sci-fi. I've witnessed some of the most heinous atrocities known to Trek Fandom, namely Trek-Nazis who incessantly chatter about the Almighty Federation.

Oh yes. It's true. Not only do overzealous Trek fans goose-step at warp speed, they become utterly consumed with the Master Show. And this post is just more evidence of it. Star Trek uber alles.

I can still love Trek and appreciate other sci-fi while acknowledging that there is no spin in this universe (but perhaps other universes, however that is another debate) will change the fact that the Evil Galactic Empire, EU or no EU, would still rip the UFP's neck off and throat fuck it's turbolaser fire riddled corpse.

Trek fans, still with me? There is no shame in admitting defeat. What is shameful is that people who should have appeared in the documentary "Trekkies" continue to fix logic to suit their own arguments and keep being intellectually dishonest. This entire post is just evidence of it.

And by the way...if I get any warnings or get banned for this post, then everything I've just said is true about Trek-Nazis. You all know who you are.

One last thing:
Better tech =/= better franchise.

(jumps off soapbox)

[Darth Lucifer]

Correction to above: In the paragraphs that start "Oh, Yes" and "Trek Fans", replace "post" with "thread." I get the two mixed up. When I say Thread, I mean their entire thread entitled "The Federation owns the Empire Deal with it, Warsies."

[Lord Poe]

*takes a bow*And to think I only cut my teeth on vs debating back when Darkstar had his board

LOL! You're right! Darkstar completely deleted the fact that he thought the Lars homestead was whitewashed dirt! I suggest you point that out to him. You know how flustered he gets when back into a corner!

[Adun]

PS: 'Que el joder' means WTF in Spanish for all of you non Spanish speakers.

Actually, you won´t find any spanish speaker saying ´Que el joder?´ in your life. It´s a pretty blunt translation. Try ´Que carajo?´ or ´Que mierda?´ instead.

[Jon]

I guess a well done is in order for giving this shite site so much publicity across 19 pages that it is now SD.net MK.II

[Jon]

I guess a well done is in order for giving this shite site so much publicity across 19 pages that it is now SD.net MK.II

Well, the forum anyway... content and memberwise