STGOD 4 OOC Thread

[Stormbringer]

By the by, please direct me to the page where Beowulf stated info on his absence, I seem to have missed it.

Old news, he joined the Air Force some time ago and has had spotty access ever since then.

[Hotfoot]

The constant need to fight and bitch and simply dicuss to death every little thing rather than playing the damn game and just rolling with it. Everyone has been doing this for this game and it just gets wearing.

Yet you make no distinction between calling bullshit for what it is and whining to try and pull bullshit. Much as I would enjoy a game where everyone got along, agreed on the rules, and what is allowable and what is not, that's not going to happen. People are going to disagree, and some people are going to try and get away with whatever shit they can if the opprotunity presents itself. Without a common structure which everyone adheres to, this is not a STGOD.

This Beowulf thing is only the latest. And frankly I don't at all think it's fair to blame it all on him.

Where did I say I am blaming it all on him? I said he's the latest iteration, moreover that he is the most notable example since Lazerus was banned.

But, hey, if you want to avoid excessive bitching and moaning, set an example. I'll come along and invade you, declaring that your military is asleep or away at the time, take over all of your systems without a fight, after which point your military hands itself over to me.

Don't argue. That will ruin the STGOD. Just roll with it.

[Stormbringer]

Yet you make no distinction between calling bullshit for what it is and whining to try and pull bullshit. Much as I would enjoy a game where everyone got along, agreed on the rules, and what is allowable and what is not, that's not going to happen. People are going to disagree, and some people are going to try and get away with whatever shit they can if the opprotunity presents itself. Without a common structure which everyone adheres to, this is not a STGOD.

I don't expect a game in which every one agrees all the time. But in having been part of 4 STGODS now, I can safely say this one has seen the most bickering I've ever seen, by far! While power gaming by some individuals has played a rule, there's also been a lot of people that just want to haggle every last point.

But, hey, if you want to avoid excessive bitching and moaning, set an example.

I'm trying to. I haven't exactly been complaining about everything now have I?

In case you might have missed it, some how I wound up the only referee in this game and so when people keep arguing (legitimate points or not) it's kind of my job to get in there.

I'll come along and invade you, declaring that your military is asleep or away at the time, take over all of your systems without a fight, after which point your military hands itself over to me.

Don't argue. That will ruin the STGOD. Just roll with it.

Which would be power gaming. The problem isn't the big issues, it's the little things that are getting henpecked to death. Like the issue of security cameras in the bathroom and the relativel endurance of ships and nine million other issues.

This has got to stop and I'm trying my best to find a way to resolve it fairly for all parties.

[InnocentBystander]

Old news, he joined the Air Force some time ago and has had spotty access ever since then.

Has he? Proof please? I see no messages hinting that his time on the message boards will be limited. Did everyone on earth get a memo saying "Hey, if it ever comes up, this guy named "Beowulf", on the SDnet forums, he's in the airforce, he doesn't get to post that often."? I know I didn't.

[Stormbringer]

Old news, he joined the Air Force some time ago and has had spotty access ever since then.

Has he? Proof please? I see no messages hinting that his time on the message boards will be limited. Did everyone on earth get a memo saying "Hey, if it ever comes up, this guy named "Beowulf", on the SDnet forums, he's in the airforce, he doesn't get to post that often."? I know I didn't.

FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK! WHAT THE HELL IS WITH THE PEOPLE OF THIS BOARD AND DEMANDING PROOF IN TRIPLICATE OF EVERY DAMN THING SAID?!?!!?

Beowulf had long ago mentioned to just about every that cared pay attention to it that he was enlisting in the Air Force. And yes, he really did join the Air Force, it's a fact. That you missed that information doesn't really change things much.

[Hotfoot]

I don't expect a game in which every one agrees all the time. But in having been part of 4 STGODS now, I can safely say this one has seen the most bickering I've ever seen, by far! While power gaming by some individuals has played a rule, there's also been a lot of people that just want to haggle every last point.

Most of which was a direct result of Lazerus, which is why I called for him to be banned from the game (long overdue at that point really, but better late than never). I've read through most of the bitching, hell, I've written a lot of it. Almost every time it was when someone tried to pull some shit and got called for it.

I'm trying to. I haven't exactly been complaining about everything now have I?

Starting at this point defending Beowulf's actions isn't the best timing to call an end to the bickering. It's very much coming across as you merely continuing that which you are trying to end.

In case you might have missed it, some how I wound up the only referee in this game and so when people keep arguing (legitimate points or not) it's kind of my job to get in there.

Well, hey, if you want some help, I'd be happy to step up to the job if the other players would have me. Saves you the trouble of being the sole mod out here when Pablo is away.

Which would be power gaming. The problem isn't the big issues, it's the little things that are getting henpecked to death. Like the issue of security cameras in the bathroom and the relativel endurance of ships and nine million other issues.

Well, let's see. The security cameras bitch was brought up by Beowulf, who has obviously never been to Las Vegas. Meanwhile, the endurance issue has been pushed by, well, you for the most part, and your arguments for have been less than stellar to this point.

The point being that when someone tries powergaming, they attempt to justify it in some silly way, and without a modstick, the rest of us have to try and show why that way is silly, which results in these debates.

This has got to stop and I'm trying my best to find a way to resolve it fairly for all parties.

I have a way I think will be the most attractive to the most parties soon enough.

[consequences]

Old news, he joined the Air Force some time ago and has had spotty access ever since then.

Has he? Proof please? I see no messages hinting that his time on the message boards will be limited. Did everyone on earth get a memo saying "Hey, if it ever comes up, this guy named "Beowulf", on the SDnet forums, he's in the airforce, he doesn't get to post that often."? I know I didn't.

He's a member of the Mess, having satisfied the mods thereof of his bona fides. Unless you have more experience and military knowledge than Rob Wilson and Coyote, please keep your accusations to yourself.

[Hotfoot]

He's a member of the Mess, having satisfied the mods thereof of his bona fides. Unless you have more experience and military knowledge than Rob Wilson and Coyote, please keep your accusations to yourself.

I don't think that InnocentBystander is questioning Beowulf's enlistment, but rather the notification that he does not have the ability to post often, and thus the expectation that we should not expect such of him.

The fact that Beowulf made no notice that he would be unable to post BEFORE he disappeared in this STGOD is the bad taste that is sticking in everyone's mouth.

[InnocentBystander]

Beowulf had long ago mentioned to just about every that cared pay attention to it that he was enlisting in the Air Force. And yes, he really did join the Air Force, it's a fact. That you missed that information doesn't really change things much.

Simply put, I cannot locate that information in any of the STGOD 4 threads, as such there is no way I would know about such things. Frankly, I don't care what his reasons for not posting are, I merely want it stated in a threat that has the words "STGOD 4" in it. Just a simple post; like this:

"Hey, just so you guys know, I don't get to post very often, usually only on weekends."

Explain to me how that is unreasonable?

[Stormbringer]

He's a member of the Mess, having satisfied the mods thereof of his bona fides. Unless you have more experience and military knowledge than Rob Wilson and Coyote, please keep your accusations to yourself.

I don't think that InnocentBystander is questioning Beowulf's enlistment, but rather the notification that he does not have the ability to post often, and thus the expectation that we should not expect such of him.

The fact that Beowulf made no notice that he would be unable to post BEFORE he disappeared in this STGOD is the bad taste that is sticking in everyone's mouth.

Um, maybe the fact that he's been saying that for considerably longer. That you're not aware of things immediately doesn't automatically call for accusations that some one is lying.

[consequences]

He's a member of the Mess, having satisfied the mods thereof of his bona fides. Unless you have more experience and military knowledge than Rob Wilson and Coyote, please keep your accusations to yourself.

I don't think that InnocentBystander is questioning Beowulf's enlistment, but rather the notification that he does not have the ability to post often, and thus the expectation that we should not expect such of him.

The fact that Beowulf made no notice that he would be unable to post BEFORE he disappeared in this STGOD is the bad taste that is sticking in everyone's mouth.

True enough, but shit happens when your in uniform, and you don't always get any warning about it. However, an apology after the fact would certainly be called for, or at least an explanation.

Reason #? why I was reluctant to try to join an STGOD until recently.

[Stormbringer]

Most of which was a direct result of Lazerus, which is why I called for him to be banned from the game (long overdue at that point really, but better late than never). I've read through most of the bitching, hell, I've written a lot of it. Almost every time it was when someone tried to pull some shit and got called for it.

You obviously haven't been watching the same game. I've seen a lot of bickering that had nothing to do with Laz. And quitely frankly, just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's shit that has to be argued to death.

Starting at this point defending Beowulf's actions isn't the best timing to call an end to the bickering. It's very much coming across as you merely continuing that which you are trying to end.

Sorry, I'm trying to convince people rather than just whipping out the mod stick. Because frankly, I don't entirely agree.

Well, hey, if you want some help, I'd be happy to step up to the job if the other players would have me. Saves you the trouble of being the sole mod out here when Pablo is away.

It's not so much help as not wanting to simply whip out the mod-stick. I think I might just have to.

Well, let's see. The security cameras bitch was brought up by Beowulf, who has obviously never been to Las Vegas. Meanwhile, the endurance issue has been pushed by, well, you for the most part, and your arguments for have been less than stellar to this point.

I'm not in this for an arguement, I've been trying to convince you. If you want I can just make a decision now.

The point being that when someone tries powergaming, they attempt to justify it in some silly way, and without a modstick, the rest of us have to try and show why that way is silly, which results in these debates.

Yes, it does. But frankly, I've also tried to let you guys sort it out some with out imposing the decisions. I think at this point it'll be better just to take a hardline stance.

I have a way I think will be the most attractive to the most parties soon enough.

Please, I'd like the hear it.

[Hotfoot]

Um, maybe the fact that he's been saying that for considerably longer. That you're not aware of things immediately doesn't automatically call for accusations that some one is lying.

I love how you fill in blanks that don't even exist. Look, instead of trying to spin this, why don't you respond to the posts as they are written?

Innocent Bystander was complaining that Beowulf didn't let us all know that he would be largely unable to post during the week. It's not much to ask, especially if you have just put yourself in a situation which would require one to be actively posting for a few days at a time (which, let's do be honest, the attack on the trade fair, tried OR aborted, would have required that).

A simple, "hey guys, just so you know, I won't be able to post next week, and my online time will be spotty at best," is not much to ask, and it was never given. It's frankly inconsiderate at best, and expecting everyone to already know that and the why behind it is silly. The status of his personal life could have changed at any point between the last STGOD and now for all we know (which is roughly nothing at the point he disappeared, because he didn't say anything).

True enough, but shit happens when your in uniform, and you don't always get any warning about it. However, an apology after the fact would certainly be called for, or at least an explanation.

Reason #? why I was reluctant to try to join an STGOD until recently.

Hey, you're right, shit does happen, and I understand, I really do. Shit happens in every walk of life, but the fact of the matter is from the looks of things, Beowulf knew his life was going to be hectic, and yet made a major move anyway. He did it in the last STGOD, he did it here. It's not cool. If you don't know how your access is going to be, you draw back and go internal, like Thirdfain and Bugsby, or give someone control of your forces, and have it set up beforehand who you're going to hand it over to. It doesn't take much really.

[Stormbringer]

Um, maybe the fact that he's been saying that for considerably longer. That you're not aware of things immediately doesn't automatically call for accusations that some one is lying.

I love how you fill in blanks that don't even exist. Look, instead of trying to spin this, why don't you respond to the posts as they are written?

Pardon me, but demands of proof go well beyond simple inquiries. The fact that this is something that's rather well known to those that have paid any attention only makes it more annoying.

[Hotfoot]

You obviously haven't been watching the same game.

That one can go both ways quite easily.

I've seen a lot of bickering that had nothing to do with Laz.

Shall I ask for proof of this massive amounts of bitching that had absolutely NOTHING to do with laz? Or will you just yell at me? Or will you just go around and around in circles until you finally just admit that Laz was one of the biggest focal points of bitching in this STGOD, though not all of it, and make it seem like that was your point all along?

And quitely frankly, just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's shit that has to be argued to death.

I fail to see your point. Do you have one? If so, what?

Sorry, I'm trying to convince people rather than just whipping out the mod stick. Because frankly, I don't entirely agree.

Right now, you're the only one who doesn't.

It's not so much help as not wanting to simply whip out the mod-stick. I think I might just have to.

Go ahead. Just remember that mods in this game have just as much power as the players allow them.

I'm not in this for an arguement, I've been trying to convince you. If you want I can just make a decision now.

My, that sounds suspiciously like a threat. I'm getting tired of this. This is sounding more and more like you putting up a show of trying to reason with me (the unrepentant asshole) before bringing down the modhammer against me because I got tired of running around in circles with you.

Yes, it does. But frankly, I've also tried to let you guys sort it out some with out imposing the decisions. I think at this point it'll be better just to take a hardline stance.

Hey, go for it if you think it will work.

Please, I'd like the hear it.

Everyone is calling for blood, so I think I will give it to them. It won't destroy the Lying Darkness, it won't make them unplayable, but it will hurt them, as such a stupid move as they pulled should. The STGOD will then pick up and move on at a relatively normal pace, and we can keep playing instead of being stuck on the same event for a MONTH as Beowulf would have us.

I'm interested in keeping this game going. Powergamers and nitpickers be damned. You do what you feel you have to do, and so will I.

[consequences]

True enough, but shit happens when your in uniform, and you don't always get any warning about it. However, an apology after the fact would certainly be called for, or at least an explanation.

Reason #? why I was reluctant to try to join an STGOD until recently.

Hey, you're right, shit does happen, and I understand, I really do. Shit happens in every walk of life, but the fact of the matter is from the looks of things, Beowulf knew his life was going to be hectic, and yet made a major move anyway. He did it in the last STGOD, he did it here. It's not cool. If you don't know how your access is going to be, you draw back and go internal, like Thirdfain and Bugsby, or give someone control of your forces, and have it set up beforehand who you're going to hand it over to. It doesn't take much really.

Given that he hasn't done anything to alleviate the problem, or even acknowledge its existence, I really can't help but agree with you.

In other news, the long-awaited/ignored invasion of Pardah will be conducted in a couple days, but I am using this as an opportunity to flesh out my OrBat, and get the appropriate bitching and revisions out of the way before unleashing it on an innocent galaxy. However, work, helping out my parents(Translation: more work), and assisting my fiance's family in moving(Translation: way too much work), along with my never satisfied nemesis, sleep, are horribly delaying my lack of progress with the writing up.
That said, night, all.

[Hotfoot]

Pardon me, but demands of proof go well beyond simple inquiries.

He was asking where Beowulf said he would not be available to post in STGOD4. It was not mentioned. You made it seem as though it had. Questioning your source was a legitimate inquiry.

The fact that this is something that's rather well known to those that have paid any attention only makes it more annoying.

Pray, do tell, why should a relatively new member who has spent most of his posts POSTING IN THIS VERY STGOD (which should be obvious to those that have paid any attention) know about the life and times of someone who he only just recently met?

[Stormbringer]

Pardon me, but demands of proof go well beyond simple inquiries.

He was asking where Beowulf said he would not be available to post in STGOD4. It was not mentioned. You made it seem as though it had. Questioning your source was a legitimate inquiry.

The simple fact that he demands proof of a person's real life is enough. I mean mother of fuck, that alone suggests that there's a good deal of distrust. That and it's simply being rather assholish.

The fact that this is something that's rather well known to those that have paid any attention only makes it more annoying.

Pray, do tell, why should a relatively new member who has spent most of his posts POSTING IN THIS VERY STGOD (which should be obvious to those that have paid any attention) know about the life and times of someone who he only just recently met?

Hmm, the fact that it's been mentioned plenty of places? If you're only reading the STGOD, yeah, you might miss out on a few things.

[frigidmagi]

Hey, let's all take a deep breath and calm down a little okay?

This is my first STGOD, so I could be wrong, but I don't think there's that much agruing all things considered.

But given the nature of the game there's going to be some screaming.

Everyone relax and step back for a bit.

No one is accusing Beowulf of lieing, they are just bitching about him not saying in a STGOD 4 thread that his showing would be spotty. He can't help it, okay that's cool, but we can't know everything about everyone on this board. So him saying something would be nice. But let us let that one go.

[Stormbringer]

This is my first STGOD, so I could be wrong, but I don't think there's that much agruing all things considered.

But given the nature of the game there's going to be some screaming.

It has been actually. All the other games managed to run with an OOC thread that was shorter or equal to the game thread. This one hasn't and it's mostly been arguements and simple complaints.

[Hotfoot]

The simple fact that he demands proof of a person's real life is enough. I mean mother of fuck, that alone suggests that there's a good deal of distrust. That and it's simply being rather assholish.

He's demanding proof of WHERE BEOWULF SAID HE WAS UNAVAILABLE. Not his life. Please try to understand that.

Hmm, the fact that it's been mentioned plenty of places? If you're only reading the STGOD, yeah, you might miss out on a few things.

Stormbringer, this board has what, over a million threads (or is it posts) now? Thousands of users? You can't possibly expect people to know the intimate life details of every other poster on the board, especially one who's net access for the past several months has been very spotty at best. Not everyone is going to spend the time to read everyone else's posting histories when they join. It's unreasonable to expect them to.

Edit: meanwhile, plenty of places? Without even one example? This is EXACTLY what Innocent Bystander was questioning. You make allusions to having proof, but never come forward with it, expecting it to be self-evident. Well, news flash, it's not. Not everyone has been at this board from the beginning.

[SirNitram]

This is my first STGOD, so I could be wrong, but I don't think there's that much agruing all things considered.

But given the nature of the game there's going to be some screaming.

It has been actually. All the other games managed to run with an OOC thread that was shorter or equal to the game thread. This one hasn't and it's mostly been arguements and simple complaints.

I'm still wondering what all the bitching that doesn't immediately refine to being about Laz or Beowulf is. There really hasn't been that much.

[Stormbringer]

Hotfoot, this is an utterly pointless arguement to be having. Can we please just drop it? Or at least not do this here?


(This would be an example of the pointless arguements that have characterized this game).

[Stormbringer]

I'm still wondering what all the bitching that doesn't immediately refine to being about Laz or Beowulf is. There really hasn't been that much.

Just in the time I've paid attention, there were multi-page bitches about Alyrium's tactics, minor arguements over plenty of subjects, and general complaining from a number of people (yourself included). And mind you that not every arguement that happened needed to be the multi-page shouting matches they were either.

[Hotfoot]

(This would be an example of the pointless arguements that have characterized this game).

I can't help but feel like this has been said before...ah well. I've got me a monster post to write. See you on the flipside.