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Ooch, you did? I was going off what was discussed in PMs with Norade earlier today. I can snip that if you'd like and let the fleet sit where it was.

I am reducing my naval committment.

From:
*1 N3 (9x18")
*2 Revenge II (8x16")
*2 Revenge (8x15")
*4 Hawkins (8x8")
*8 Birmingham (9x6")
*18 W&V (4x4")

To:
*1 N3
*2 Revenge II
*2 Hawkins
*2 Birmingham
*6 W&V

Sorry, Thanas. Steve's kinda got a point. :/

He should do it too. This is getting God damned ridiculous, it'll take you all a day or two just to traverse Suez (and cause lots of angry merchantmen I may add) at the rate this "fleet" is growing.

And that goes for everyone. Seriously, I consider myself at the cap for reasonable deployment with 4 BCs, a CL, 7 DDs, and a tender having been dispatched. I have two Large Cruisers also in the area, though operating independently. And, may I add, I also actually have freaking ports on the Indian Ocean?

Honestly, Thanas, sending the whole HSF is too much, you should cut back too. At most, send a battle squadron (4 dreads) with an 8-ship cruiser/destroyer squadron for screens.

Czech wrote:Have you considered Russia having built a railway to the Siberian coastline and then along the coast of the Sea of Okhotsk to Kamchatka, or to Kamchatka via any other route

Russia has not, historically. Even the USSR hasn't. It's too damn hard to construct such a railway.

Beowulf, well that's all fine. To be fair though, both Russia and some other nations would love to have a railway-linked port city in the Pacific. You probably do have one, regardless of whether it's precisely Vladivostok or some other place - not just Port Arthur alone (it's easily threatened from China; Manchuria probably has another large port city somewhere north).

Now, if there could be a possibility of me having railway connections to places like Vanino or Sovietskaya Gavan, sure, I'd be probably content and build my Navy there. But Manchuria cut off even that! You took almost the entire coastline of the Khabarovsk Krai that was suitable for military naval ports (large ports). And that's not mentioning that I would have to indulge into constructing a Baikal-Amur magistral type railway project to make these ports truly viable and valuable as military installations.

So basically, I'm cut off from all possible Far East ports (Okhotsk cannot be connected by railway, neither Kamchatka, without very significant expenses), especially those usable for military needs. That's why I didn't even bother setting up a Pacific Navy - I have nowhere to base it and resupply.

That's why, Vladivostok, Vanino or any other large port in the IRL Khabarovsk Krai will be a target of Soviet ambitions. You can't just say "well, you have a non-accessibly by railway port in the Kamchatka". Neither can you claim you DON'T have at least a mid-sized port in Khabarovsk Krai which I could not turn to a military installation reasonably suitable to my needs.

Steve wrote:He should do it too. This is getting God damned ridiculous, it'll take you all a day or two just to traverse Suez (and cause lots of angry merchantmen I may add) at the rate this "fleet" is growing.

And that goes for everyone. Seriously, I consider myself at the cap for reasonable deployment with 4 BCs, a CL, 7 DDs, and a tender having been dispatched. I have two Large Cruisers also in the area, though operating independently.

Honestly, Thanas, sending the whole HSF is too much, you should cut back too. At most, send a battle squadron (4 dreads) with an 8-ship cruiser/destroyer squadron for screens.

I intentionally didn't state a number in the post so that I could dial it back if need be, I'll leave it at the Guadalajara, a Flotilla of six Destroyers, Franco and the Cruiser Squadron (4) and an Oiler or two, would that be reasonable? I'd be willing to expend some IBPs on the operation as well if you like, whatever sounds right.

You can cut back on the number of screens unless asked to so that Germany and Scandanavia don't need to bring so many. Otherwise I'll accept that.

Stas Bush wrote:I need a pacifiс port. Hopefully you do realize that any nation pretending to be a superpower, or aiming for such status in the future must have access, and supply facilities and ports, in both Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

Probably should have addressed this sooner. Who are the superpowers in this game? Who has supply facilities and ports in both Atlantic and Pacific oceans, that aren't an isthmus, where it's easy, simply because you're 300 miles wide there?

Let's see, you've got Germany, who only has a port in East Asia by the grace of Bluewolf. There's Britain, who's a naval power, but that's about it. There's Mexico, but that's an isthmus. It'd be illogical for him not to have ports on both oceans. There's the Dutch, but they're scattered throughout the East Indies in a city here and there. There's Columbia, which is similar to Mexico. Chilitina, pretty similar to both of those. And only Mexico, Columbia, and Chilitina actually have the capability to supply their opposite ocean ports through rail.

Steve wrote:You can cut back on the number of screens unless asked to so that Germany and Scandanavia don't need to bring so many. Otherwise I'll accept that.

Alright, could drop it to two-four DDs/CAs depending. I'll wait on word from them, then. Glad that's settled.

I would get that capability by capturing a railway-linked seaport somewhere in the Khabarovsk krai (and railway supply shall be there, either now or in the 1950s when I build the first parts of the Baikal-Amur railway). There should be one somewhere.

Beowulf wrote:Let's see, you've got Germany, who only has a port in East Asia by the grace of Bluewolf.

To be fair, a lease of Qingdao is hardly explainable for such a powerful China.

And yeah, I need that - ANY - Pacific port because guess what, all my other ports are either in very confined seas (Baltic, Black Sea) or so far North that really large fleets would face difficulties in operating (Northen Ocean fleet).

Thus any bid for Open Seas Fleet must begin with having ports in the oceans or ocean-open seas. I have none so far.

I have enough screens for my capital ships, MoP. Thanas might want them, though.

Czechmate wrote:I have enough screens for my capital ships, MoP. Thanas might want them, though.

Gotcha, thanks. Shot a PM off him so we'll see what he has planned and then I'll have my finalized commitment ready.

IOW, Stas, you have the traditional problems of Russia in terms of access to good naval bases... just made worse because you don't have Vladivostok.

I know, hence my militant stance. Vladivostok is actually no much better or worse (at least in this era) than Vanino or Sovietskaya Gavan, but by Beowulf's claims, I've been denied the access to those as well.

To be fair, a lease of Qingdao is hardly explainable for such a powerful China.

To note that Qingdao was agreed upon early on in the game before a lot of stats were swapped around and changed. I was, and still am going to get help from Germany on various things due to the port being German still. That is why it is still there and removing it now would just be more trouble than its worth and not benefit me at all.

The only thing I question about the issues with my deployment is it throwing off my maintenance schedule. I assume there is a good reason, but I can't see why taking a large fleet less than their maximum endurance would cause issues, especially for a fleet that was designed to make the journey from Portugal to Guiana in one go and back without refueling.

As for morale, all of my ships are excellent sea boats, and every ship I'm sending aside from the Cidade-class has excellent crew space and even the Cidade is considered adequate. In all honesty sailing through the Med in March should be an easy trip and enough supplies are carried that I can avoid a mooring and still have an easy time of it.

To avoid collisions I may space my fleet out in a longer single file line and hire or borrow advisers from local shipping companies to aid in the navigation of waters that my fleet would be unfamiliar with though the weather should be decent as I can find no records that show any shockingly bad weather in march.

The majority of my fleet would remain moored off the Egyptian coast going ashore a ship at a time as permitted by the Egyptians. Though they would certainly drive up prices in town the purchases and money flowing into major ports would be a good thing overall, and we would have coal and oil on hand along with supplies to avoid stripping markets bare.

In all, while a difficult task it has been well planned and supplied to succeed and to send a strong message without actually doing too much. In reality for most of the fleet it will be a joint operations exercise and even the rest of the fleet should see little, if any, combat.

The amusing part is that so far there is no evidence whatsoever that any of us have done much of anything to destabilize anyone, indeed even Peru and the Congo only received open support when the Revolution was well under way. The problem of course is that it's the horrible working conditions in the various countries that cause communism, not some secret committee plotting and scheming away. Indeed the various radical socialist and communist groups were, in the past, often surprisingly independent from Moscow despite the bleatings of the yellow press (Stas can, no doubt, ellaborate).

Posted a revised version of my starting points over in the points thread, mentioning it here in the event it causes dissent when I really start get involved.

Now then, can someone explain to me how the OrBats work in PMs? I have a rough idea but I'd rather not get it completely wrong.

Additionally, is it acceptable for Afghanistan to have a gunfort on the edge of the Inland Sea? It's not exactly a prime invasion route, but since it's the only passage for China to invade I could see them putting one there, just in case. Shep, Stas, Blue?

loomer wrote:Additionally, is it acceptable for Afghanistan to have a gunfort on the edge of the Caspian? It's not exactly a prime invasion route, but since it's the only passage for China to invade I could see them putting one there, just in case. Shep, Stas, Blue?

Urm Afghanistan isn't anywhere near the Caspian, what gives?

Norseman wrote:

loomer wrote:Additionally, is it acceptable for Afghanistan to have a gunfort on the edge of the Caspian? It's not exactly a prime invasion route, but since it's the only passage for China to invade I could see them putting one there, just in case. Shep, Stas, Blue?

Urm Afghanistan isn't anywhere near the Caspian, what gives?

Feck, not the Caspian. The one that Afghanistan looks to have a tiny border with on the map - or is that just the Russia/Sheppo border? Colorblindness is not helpful.

That's the Tarim sea, an invented water reservoir to support greater populations in regions otherwise poorly suited for habitation (Mongolia, etc). I think it's pretty demilitarized on my part (I don't have a Tarim flotilla), though can't say the same of others.

EDIT: Hmm, that's right. I have Tarim Sea ports. I must build some ships there, or move some old destroyers to create a Tarim Flotilla!

Wow. I go awol for one and a half days and this gets haywire.

Steve wrote:He should do it too. This is getting God damned ridiculous, it'll take you all a day or two just to traverse Suez (and cause lots of angry merchantmen I may add) at the rate this "fleet" is growing.

And that goes for everyone. Seriously, I consider myself at the cap for reasonable deployment with 4 BCs, a CL, 7 DDs, and a tender having been dispatched. I have two Large Cruisers also in the area, though operating independently. And, may I add, I also actually have freaking ports on the Indian Ocean?

Honestly, Thanas, sending the whole HSF is too much, you should cut back too. At most, send a battle squadron (4 dreads) with an 8-ship cruiser/destroyer squadron for screens.

Why? I sent you my naval breakdown already.

ATM I have got at sea:

6 large Oilers (90kt) - 1 already in the Indian Ocean
8 small oilers (80kt) - 1 already in the indian Ocean
10 supply ships (100kt)
10 ammunition ships (50kt)

So that leaves about 12 oilers, 10 supply ships etc. to supply my fleet For a trip that is well within their range.

As for logistics, here is how it will go:
- Main battleships meet up before Spain and refuel at German bases in the med or in africa, depending what size they will take.
- They can then rendezvous again before the other ships.

Quite frankly, if the US could do the same with coal-equipped white fleet over long range, I see no reason why modern oil-equipped ships cannot do so. The total number of capital ships is little more than double that of the White Fleet, so I do not think the HSF will have any trouble reaching the med or the african bases. Quite frankly, if the Navy cannot even make a trip across distances that are less than over the Atlantic Ocean, what worth is it?

None of the planned distances is longer than the maximum range on my ships, btw.

I also love how Shep and Lonestar somehow know that the destination of my warships is the Shepistani sea, when it has not yet been decided IC where it is headed. For the moment, the official destination is "exercises conducted off Spain with friends and allies."

Okay, new diplomatic notes posted. I think a peaceful resolution might be possible.

Another note - I might be absent from the internet starting tomorrow till Tuesday.

Thanas wrote:Another note - I might be absent from the internet starting tomorrow till Tuesday.

Ahhhh.