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Galvatron wrote: 2017-12-28 05:34am I think I've discussed and processed it enough that I'm ready to see it again. This video clinched the decision for me...

* snip "The 'The Last Jedi' Backlash is missing the point" video*

Just going off the title. If there's a massive backlash that 'missing the point' then maybe the point wasn't very well made? Or maybe they got the point and just don't agree?

It's like everyone loving how meta Kylo Ren and the First Order are in TFA, I don't care if they're intentionally crap. They're still crap and unentertaining to me.

Seeing TLJ for the first time tonight.

eta: Added Galvatron quote as we're on a new page

Then again their Star Wars fans, they'd miss the point even if it went down their vent shafts.

Shroom Man 777 wrote: 2017-12-28 06:01am Then again their Star Wars fans, they'd miss the point even if it went down their vent shafts.

yeah glad we're not the nerds and star wars fans here on stardestoyer.net, that would be terrible.

Given my history of wanting to rewrite not only the prequels, but ROTJ as well, it doesn't surprise me that I prefer this unorthodox take on Old Man Luke. Hell, I posted here before about how I wanted Han to be separated from Leia and back to his old ways before we knew anything about TFA:

Galvatron wrote: 2013-01-28 09:41pm Am I alone in thinking that Han and Leia should be divorced in Episode VII? It might actually give him back some of the edge he lost in ROTJ when he started acting all lovey-dovey and whipped. Hell, we might even get a Star Wars version of this scene:



Spare me the EU's Brady Bunch Family Man Han. That's not Han. Never was. Ford knew Han and he thought Han should die in ROTJ. That didn't happen so gimme Grizzled Old Scoundrel Han instead.

Galvatron wrote: 2017-12-28 06:44amGiven my history of wanting to rewrite not only the prequels, but ROTJ as well, it doesn't surprise me that I prefer this unorthodox take on Old Man Luke.

Yeah, new Old Luke rocks. Who knew that a guy in his early twenties wouldn't be the right person to try and teach a new generation of space wizards and that it might go balls up, filling him with despair?

I also liked that Old Han just reverted to being a scummy smuggler guy, and that Old Leia became the most competent person in the galaxy. I can't fucking wait for Lando.

Canto Bight would have been the ideal place for them to find Old Man Lando, IMO.

Yeah, I'm sort of surprised that he wasn't there. Presumably if they go back to the war profiteers thing he'll show up somehow.

Galvatron wrote: 2017-12-28 05:34am I think I've discussed and processed it enough that I'm ready to see it again. This video clinched the decision for me...

I hate that every criticism of this movie is met with either "u don't like because your theories got destroyed", or "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the themes of The Last Jedi...".

A LOT of people dislike this movie because it's a boring, derivative string of plotholes, scenes lifted straigth from the OT, plotholes, and countless cheap bait and switches, sprinkled with plotholes, and ungodly ammount out of place humour. That it shits all over the OT is a minor point because TFA has already done that, TLJ just doesn't try to fix anything.

And I don't disagree with you. I bitched about it myself already.

I really dug this movie, because from a thematic/character-driven standpoint, I thought it was excellent. Especially Luke and Kylo. Kylo going from whinny pissbaby to full-on psychopathic ex-boyfriend despot was very well developed. And Old Man Luke is my end-game (except milking those...things).

And yeah, I also kind of got a kick out of how the usual "heroic, fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants" heroism from Finn and Po totally failed. Granted, I thought the whole Casino thing was kind of a waste just to give Finn something interesting to do other than chase down Rey. But it fit into the whole "the protagonists who emulate the old heroes are the ones who are fucking up the most" vibe I was getting.

All that said, if Lando isn't in the final installment, I'll be fucking PISSED. I was hoping to have him somehow show up once Leia told the Resistance comm officers to use her personal signal. If there's anyone who wouldn't come dashing in to save Leia, it'd be Lando. Plus, Lando wouldn't know about Han, and we'd get to see how that would play out for him.

NeoGoomba wrote: 2017-12-28 08:15am All that said, if Lando isn't in the final installment, I'll be fucking PISSED. I was hoping to have him somehow show up once Leia told the Resistance comm officers to use her personal signal. If there's anyone who wouldn't come dashing in to save Leia, it'd be Lando. Plus, Lando wouldn't know about Han, and we'd get to see how that would play out for him.

Lando will also be fresh in our minds after having been in the Han Solo movie. It would be beyond stupid for Abrams to leave him out of Episode IX, especially now that Carrie Fisher is gone.

Galvatron wrote: 2017-12-28 08:24am Lando will also be fresh in our minds after having been in the Han Solo movie. It would be beyond stupid for Abrams to leave him out of Episode IX, especially now that Carrie Fisher is gone.

Not if 'Solo' sucks. Which is not totally unlikely given the drama.

Nephtys wrote: 2017-12-28 02:02am The story was great. Because it wasn't about the specific details of how hyperspace tracking worked, or the credits cost of building a Mandator dreadnought. It was about characters and theme.

Kylo had amazing character development. As did his complex relationship with Luke. Rey confronting all of this and being just an embodiment that the force didn't 'belong' to the Skywalkers or the Jedi. It subverted your expectations of a formulaic (let's be honest, after 9 movies it is formulaic) of heroes pluck saving the day against the bad empire.

If it's not broken don't change it is what gets you stagnation and mediocrity. Look at how incredibly shitty 'conventional' superhero movies are now about stopping BadMan and the McGuffin that probably shoots a blue beam into the sky. That kind of thinking gets you Suicide Squad.

Oh my God, it doesn't have to be about those things, but it needs to respect that it's the ninth film in a long-running series and pay some goddamn attention to how things work in that series. How the hyperspace tracker works shouldn't be central to the story, but it should work in a manner that makes some amount of sense.

Oh, it's a great story that only disciples of Einstein can get. It's amazing how:

- They need to send a message asking for allies to help and need to get to an old installation after over 18 hours of crawling...but they can speed dial they favourite cantina owner in a jizz.

- They are running on fumes, with every bit a fuel counting...but an ex stromtrooper and a techie can waste as much as they want on a sidetrip across the galaxy (and they never got tracked).

- Kylo and the knights of Ren destroy the Jedi academy on a rainy day...but it's Ben Solo a a few students on a dry day that do that.

- The books of the jedi must burn with the tree holding them...but you can find them in the Millenium Falcon.

- The Jedi must end...but she is the succesor of the Jedi.

- Luke gets to Crait to save them and return a memento of Han to Leia...but he is a force projection and nothing was real.

- Luke dies...but the projected dice he gave Leia (and she left behind) remain in place so that he can troll his nephew.

Can anyone tell what was the theme of this movie?

CaoCao wrote: 2017-12-28 11:16am Oh, it's a great story that only disciples of Einstein can get. It's amazing how:

- They need to send a message asking for allies to help and need to get to an old installation after over 18 hours of crawling...but they can speed dial they favourite cantina owner in a jizz.

- They are running on fumes, with every bit a fuel counting...but an ex stromtrooper and a techie can waste as much as they want on a sidetrip across the galaxy (and they never got tracked).

- Kylo and the knights of Ren destroy the Jedi academy on a rainy day...but it's Ben Solo a a few students on a dry day that do that.

- The books of the jedi must burn with the tree holding them...but you can find them in the Millenium Falcon.

- The Jedi must end...but she is the succesor of the Jedi.

- Luke gets to Crait to save them and return a memento of Han to Leia...but he is a force projection and nothing was real.

- Luke dies...but the projected dice he gave Leia (and she left behind) remain in place so that he can troll his nephew.

Can anyone tell what was the theme of this movie?

Letting go of the past. Also, about half or more of your plot holes have simple explanations if you watched the movie.

Rhadamantus wrote: 2017-12-28 11:18am

CaoCao wrote: 2017-12-28 11:16am Oh, it's a great story that only disciples of Einstein can get. It's amazing how:

- They need to send a message asking for allies to help and need to get to an old installation after over 18 hours of crawling...but they can speed dial they favourite cantina owner in a jizz.

- They are running on fumes, with every bit a fuel counting...but an ex stromtrooper and a techie can waste as much as they want on a sidetrip across the galaxy (and they never got tracked).

- Kylo and the knights of Ren destroy the Jedi academy on a rainy day...but it's Ben Solo a a few students on a dry day that do that.

- The books of the jedi must burn with the tree holding them...but you can find them in the Millenium Falcon.

- The Jedi must end...but she is the succesor of the Jedi.

- Luke gets to Crait to save them and return a memento of Han to Leia...but he is a force projection and nothing was real.

- Luke dies...but the projected dice he gave Leia (and she left behind) remain in place so that he can troll his nephew.

Can anyone tell what was the theme of this movie?

Letting go of the past. Also, about half or more of your plot holes have simple explanations if you watched the movie.

You mean... letting go of the past by keeping the Jedi records and naming Rey the Jedi Order succesor? Or maybe by calling the Resistance, once again, Rebels.

eMeM wrote: 2017-12-28 07:05am I hate that every criticism of this movie is met with either "u don't like because your theories got destroyed", or "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the themes of The Last Jedi...".

A LOT of people dislike this movie because it's a boring, derivative string of plotholes, scenes lifted straigth from the OT, plotholes, and countless cheap bait and switches, sprinkled with plotholes, and ungodly ammount out of place humour. That it shits all over the OT is a minor point because TFA has already done that, TLJ just doesn't try to fix anything.

This. A lot. I don't know why some people are so defensive about this movie. I liked a lot of it but I hated a lot of it, even before we get to things about the EU or what you thought the OT characters should've done or whatever. It can be commercially successful, fun even, despite being flawed, but goddamn people are being dumb about it.

Half the commentary I've seen about it seems to boil down to Person 1: "I didn't like it." Random other person: "No you didn't. Because X"

"It's time for the Jedi to end."

Disney executive: "Mr. Johnson, the term Jedi is a trademark worth hundreds of millions of dollars to Disney."

"I won't be the last Jedi."

fractalsponge1 wrote: 2017-12-28 11:59am

eMeM wrote: 2017-12-28 07:05am I hate that every criticism of this movie is met with either "u don't like because your theories got destroyed", or "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the themes of The Last Jedi...".

A LOT of people dislike this movie because it's a boring, derivative string of plotholes, scenes lifted straigth from the OT, plotholes, and countless cheap bait and switches, sprinkled with plotholes, and ungodly ammount out of place humour. That it shits all over the OT is a minor point because TFA has already done that, TLJ just doesn't try to fix anything.

This. A lot. I don't know why some people are so defensive about this movie. I liked a lot of it but I hated a lot of it, even before we get to things about the EU or what you thought the OT characters should've done or whatever. It can be commercially successful, fun even, despite being flawed, but goddamn people are being dumb about it.

Half the commentary I've seen about it seems to boil down to Person 1: "I didn't like it." Random other person: "No you didn't. Because X"

Yeah, I really enjoyed the movie. I even saw it a second time and enjoyed it even more. The themes add layers to the film missing from TFA and R1. But in these threads I tend to side with the "haters" because the flaws really are there to see in the film, and they are a legitimate reason to dislike the film for anyone so inclined. In many ways, the film works beautifully, but in many ways it is also a terrible mess. Considering the disdain with which it treats the science fantasy rules of the setting, I feel like the film might stand well on its own but is poison for the franchise as a whole.

Crazedwraith wrote: 2017-12-28 06:35am

Shroom Man 777 wrote: 2017-12-28 06:01am Then again their Star Wars fans, they'd miss the point even if it went down their vent shafts.

yeah glad we're not the nerds and star wars fans here on stardestoyer.net, that would be terrible.

Assume they are spherical masses of iron, if you will.

eMeM wrote: 2017-12-28 07:05amI hate that every criticism of this movie is met with either "u don't like because your theories got destroyed", or "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the themes of The Last Jedi...".

IMO a lot of the dislike of the movie comes from nerds who are kinda stuffy and rigid. I just think it rubbed them off the wrong way due to their possessiveness, which the movie blatantly tried to address.

I mean, we're a board based on people who've spent godless amounts of hours arguing that a Star Destroyer can paste the Enterprise because of footage of pew-pew asteroids. Lets be real here, the nerd community's not the most level-headed of groups.

CaoCao wrote: 2017-12-28 11:16am Oh, it's a great story that only disciples of Einstein can get. It's amazing how:

- They need to send a message asking for allies to help and need to get to an old installation after over 18 hours of crawling...but they can speed dial they favourite cantina owner in a jizz.

Broad transmissions across the galaxy sent to anyone listening might not work the same as point to point personal comms between linked transmitters and receivers? It's not just speed dialing Maz, Poe also was in constant communications with FInn...

- They are running on fumes, with every bit a fuel counting...but an ex stromtrooper and a techie can waste as much as they want on a sidetrip across the galaxy (and they never got tracked).

The tracker was focused on the main ship. Not all the Resistance personnel could fit on the few remaining FTL-capable transports, and presumably if enough of them fled (either if there were a bunch of FTL-capable ships or if they made repeat trips with that single ship), they WOULD get noticed and then tracked and killfucked. Even their new cloak tech was susceptible to detection when someone paid close enough attention.

- The books of the jedi must burn with the tree holding them...but you can find them in the Millenium Falcon.

The symbolic place where the ancient Jedi teachings were sequestered out of Luke and the Jedi Order's stagnation and separation and fixation had to burn, so people could move on, so Luke could get off his ass and so that Rey could take those things with her and do with her as she will instead of just having it hidden and treated "sacred."

Maybe Yoda wanted to give the place a worthy fiery sendoff, as the place was a sacred site for millennia. Space wizard spirits ritualistically commit arson to deconsecrate ancient temple grounds - cool!

It's like the Shaolin dispersing and spreading their ways to the people and regaining that common touch once their huge monastery got blown up - a change, a new beginning, from a tragedy that nonetheless allowed them to reset from their prior stratified course and baggage.

- The Jedi must end...but she is the succesor of the Jedi.

Uh huh, an ending that prompts a succession... kind of like some mythic bird wreathed in flame and fabled to undergo revival, that's probably symbolic of certain orders, groups seeking to revive goodness and bring newness of hope, and such. A flame-wreathed bird that might have a similar silhouette to a three-segmented tree catching fire from lightning called from the spectral apparition of a tiny green puppet. Resulting in a rather unsubtle metaphor that might nonetheless fail to communicate the point to thickies.

- Luke gets to Crait to save them and return a memento of Han to Leia...but he is a force projection and nothing was real.

Why isn't it real? Obi-Wan told Luke more real/true things as a Force ghost than he did when he was alive.

- Luke dies...but the projected dice he gave Leia (and she left behind) remain in place so that he can troll his nephew.

It's all mystic and shit. Why would physical death prevent him from projecting images? It's not as if the previous movies had Jedi masters create images after they passed on...

Watched it yesterday - had avoided most spoilers ok... ( was with family for 2 weeks, little net access etc).

I didn't like it. I'll make a longer post tomorrow but... nah. Long, boring... meh, difficult to follow techno babble what the fuck etc.

4/10? Looked pretty, Hamil and Fisher were good.

Galvatron wrote: 2017-12-28 05:34am I think I've discussed and processed it enough that I'm ready to see it again. This video clinched the decision for me...

Either that guy is every bit as dumb as the Red Letter Moron or he's 14 years old.

I have no problem with "deconstructing" old heroes*. I do have a problem with galaxy-sized plot holes, characters acting completely out of character, and when the "deconstruction" comes across as more of an attempt to explain away moronic story/plot decisions and a way to generate Cheap Heat than any coherent attempt at a revisionist approach to the setting.

* Richard Lester and James Goldman did it brilliantly in Robin and Marian, as did Billy Wilder in The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and John Huston in The Man Who Would Be King.

Rogue 9 wrote: 2017-12-28 10:42amOh my God, it doesn't have to be about those things, but it needs to respect that it's the ninth film in a long-running series and pay some goddamn attention to how things work in that series. How the hyperspace tracker works shouldn't be central to the story, but it should work in a manner that makes some amount of sense.

That ship sailed, sank and the crew eaten by sharks when they introduced Starkiller Base. Now they're just piling more and more on top.

It made me feel like a Star Wars fan again.

And I love Red Letter Media. I use his "but wwwhhhyyyy" stroke victim voice for my Gand in our Star Wars RPG.

CaoCao wrote: 2017-12-28 11:16am - Kylo and the knights of Ren destroy the Jedi academy on a rainy day...but it's Ben Solo a a few students on a dry day that do that.

I noticed that, actually, but it's not beyond reason that the Knights of Ren flashback in TFA is a separate incident from the Ben Solo/academy destruction flashback. Particularly since Ben Solo doesn't appear to have any of the Kylo Ren getup when that happened.

What if the students that joined Kylo *became* the Knights of Ren? That's how I always imagined it -- or they joined an existing order of dark siders.