Republic economy and Watto refusing to take creds...

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2006-12-09 05:47pm

Off topic

Stas Bush wrote:How did Qui-Gon:
a) single him out from all junk merchants of Tatooine
b) was already aware that Watto was the only one who could possibly have this part

a, According to the novelisation, there was a street of junkmerchants and he chose a smaller one at random. Well, if random applies to a Jedi.
b, He was not aware. All I can recall is that he asked Watto about the J type Nubian 327. Please provide evidence.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2006-12-09 08:43pm

Money-changing may be one of the rackets that the Hutts are closely involved in, and changing 20,000 credits could be enough to draw their attention. It's just speculation, but considering that currency exchange in the real world is frequently part of the black market, I wouldn't put manipulating the exchange rates on currency past them.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-12-10 12:50am

He was not aware. All I can recall is that he asked Watto about the J type Nubian 327.

If he wasn't aware, why did he believe what Watto said, that he had the only Nubian hyperdrive?

Why didn't he try other merchants? And yeah, random choich is a pretty strange concept for a Jedi...

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2006-12-10 04:10am

Stas Bush wrote:
He was not aware. All I can recall is that he asked Watto about the J type Nubian 327.
If he wasn't aware, why did he believe what Watto said, that he had the only Nubian hyperdrive? Why didn't he try other merchants? And yeah, random choich is a pretty strange concept for a Jedi...

vakundok wrote:It is natural that scavenged parts from a rare product line ends up at focus points (or a sinlge point in this case). Why? Because every new part makes it closer to a working machine which normally has a higher value than the separated parts.

Because Watto could set an extremely high price for the part.
If you want to neglect the novelisation, it is your business, but it was rather clear that Qui Gon had no clear information about Watto.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2006-12-10 04:58am

Stas Bush wrote:
He was not aware. All I can recall is that he asked Watto about the J type Nubian 327.
If he wasn't aware, why did he believe what Watto said, that he had the only Nubian hyperdrive? Why didn't he try other merchants? And yeah, random choich is a pretty strange concept for a Jedi...

It's possible that the J type 327 Nubian is a very rare design. If it's produced only for the royalty of Naboo, like a VIP limo, parts won't be that common.

And in regards to the Kaminoans, people don't seem to be putting two and two together.

Isn't it possible Count Dooku used his own personal fortune to buy the clone army, backed up by any slush funds Palpatine might have had, and simply pretended to be Sifo Dyas?

GeneralTacticus · Post by **GeneralTacticus** » 2006-12-10 05:04am

No, it's not. Labyrinth of Evil establishes that it was indeed Sifo-Dyas who placed the order originally, although Dooku tracked him down and killed him on Sidious' orders, then took control of the program. Dooku might well have paid for it himself to maintain the project's secrecy, but Sifo-Dyas would still have needed some source of funding to even come up with the idea.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2006-12-10 05:11am

GeneralTacticus wrote:No, it's not. Labyrinth of Evil establishes that it was indeed Sifo-Dyas who placed the order originally, although Dooku tracked him down and killed him on Sidious' orders, then took control of the program. Dooku might well have paid for it himself to maintain the project's secrecy, but Sifo-Dyas would still have needed some source of funding to even come up with the idea.

Ah, I see. I was ignorant of official writings. I always got the vibe when watching the movie that it was Dooku who pretended to be Dyas.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-12-10 12:45pm

How about we try to establish if 20,000 Republic Dataries is a "small" or "large" amount? If one's to compare those 20k rep credits with presumably Imperial Credits in ANH, "Ten thousand? We could almost buy our own ship for that!"

and a little later: "HAN: Seventeen thousand! Those guys must really be desperate. This could really save my neck. Get back to the ship and get her ready."

In other words, it seems like a lot. Qui-Gon seemed confident that 20,000 would cover a new hyperdrive, although one could argue about how much a Jedi Master know of shopping.

Mind you that this is purely subjective, but it seems to me as if 20k is "a lot", which would normally pay for a new hyperdrive or even a small ship without question.

Some script quotes to freshen memory:

WATTO : ...Here it is...a T-14 hyperdrive generator!! Thee in luck, I'm the only one hereabouts who has one...but thee might as well buy a new ship. It would be cheaper, I think...Sying of which, how's thee going to pay for all this?
QUI-GON : I have 20,000 Republic dataries.
WATTO : Republic credits?!? Republic credits are no good out here. I need
something more real...
QUI-GON : I don't have anything else. (raising his hand) But credits will do
fine.
WATTO : No they won'ta. QUI-GON, using his mind power, waves his hand again.
QUI-GON : Credits will do fine.
WATTO : No, they won'ta. What you think you're some kinda Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian. Mind tricks don'ta work on me-only money. No money, no parts! No deal! And no one else has a T-14 hyperdrive, I promise you that.

QUI-GON : ...Obi-Wan, you're sure there isn't anything of value left on board?

OBI-WAN : (V.O) A few containers of supplies, the Queen's wardrobe, maybe. Not enough for you to barter with. Not in the ammounts you're talking about.

QUI-GON : All right. Another solution will present itself. I'll check back.

QUI-GON puts his comlink away and starts out into the main street. JAR JAR
grabs his arm.

JAR JAR : Noah gain...da beings hereabouts cawazy. Wesa be robbed un
crunched.
QUI-GON : Not likely. We have nothing of value, that's our problem.

It does seem to me as if Republic Credits are worthless to Wattoo, not just unstable or of low value, in which case he could ask for a premium. The T-14 hyperdrive appears to be very expensive as well "thee might as well buy a new ship".

"Republic credits?!? Republic credits are no good out here. I need
something more real..."

I think this is the key statement. For whatever reason, credits are worthless to him. As some have speculated already, "more real" could mean physical coins as opposed to a credit chip, which no doubt is what Qui-Gon had. But without more details, we'll never get past speculation and into knowledge.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2006-12-10 12:51pm

Nightmare, could you please quote Watto's last sentences to Anakin when Qui Gon and co left his shop? I think the key point not accepting the republic credits is revealed in them.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-12-10 01:53pm

Ah, thanks for the script. The fact that they try to find items for barter is particulary illuminating.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-12-10 03:51pm

vakundok wrote:Nightmare, could you please quote Watto's last sentences to Anakin when Qui Gon and co left his shop? I think the key point not accepting the republic credits is revealed in them.

This part comes from the script, actually writing it down from the movie would take a little longer. I figure this is what you want:

WATTO enters the junk yard, shaking his head.

WATTO : (subtitled) Ootmians! Tinka me chasa hopoe ma booty na nolia.
(Outlanders! They think because we live so far from the center, we don't
know nothing.)
ANAKIN : (subtitled) La lova num botaffa. (They seemed nice to me.) WATTO :
(subtitled) Fweepa niaga. Tolpa da bunky dunko. (Clean the racks, then you
can go home.)

It doesn't say too much dircectly, unfortunately. It seems to suggest that galactic politics of the day was Wattoo's reason for not accepting credits. Given the apparent weakness of the Republic and the growing insubordination of organizations like the Trade Federation, perhaps he saw the civil war coming and expected the Hutts to break off when opportunity arrived or something. In other words, maybe he thought that credits could become worthless overnight. That's not so much economic instability as political instability, although one follows the other.

Given what Qui-Gon said, "We have nothing of value, that's our problem.", it reinforces Wattoo's position as credits being worthless to him - not just of minor value. With a galactic scale economy backing it up, this seems like a preposterous claim - except for extraordinary circumstances. Such as a revolution... or a civil war. A civil war in which, perhaps, the most influential and rich systems decide to break off and form their own government, thus suddenly not backing credits anymore?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-12-10 04:14pm

So, what this tells, effectively there could've been Civil War-like events clost to E I, if Naboo conflict grew out of control.

Actually, isn't this what Palpatine has been hoping for in EI? Wasn't he just backed off 10 years because he couldn't create a conflict with the current state of things in the Republic, and thus decided to go with the Clone Army ploy and other machinations to effectively drive the Republic to the same end?

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2006-12-11 12:03am

It does seem that if the Naboo events spiraled out of control he would rule the galaxy through whichever side ruled, the Republic or the commercial interests but it didn't quite go that way. However, the seeds for civil war were planted, particularly with the subsequent trials of Gunray and his lackies to fuel public resentment of the corporate states. The Clone Army and the warships that came with it may have been ordered shortly after the Naboo crisis to ensure that Palpatine had a way of forcing a confrontation since the Republic as a whole has no standing military and aside from the more affluent members, rank and file Republic member states largely get by with at best Star Frigates as their defense forces, Frigates and Cruisers more commonly. A few short range SBCs and SDNs and the massed coast guards and police forces of loyalist planets are not exactly a force to wage galactic war against Lucrehulks and the other Separatist warships.