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Connor MacLeod wrote:Additional notes:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/walkers.html#atat


That gives stats on the AT-AT. We know they have a top speed of 60 km/hr , or almost 17 m/s. Saxton seems to indicate that the walkers moved 10 meters per step every second, which might help clarify things.

So basically they moved at ~2.5m/s?

Also, the SWICS rates the Walker with a reactor of its own, which means its not running on batteries or capacitors This probably gives us a fairly good idea (coupled with the Republic gunship) of power generation capability for SW ground vehicles.

Further note that while the kt-range figures may seem far higher, in light of what the Republic ground forces and what starfighters are capable of, I remind you of a few details:

- this WAS a maximum-firepower shot. Ideally this probbly represents not only the most substantial amount of energy that can be drawn frm the reactors, but also an extended "build up" between shots (this is what is implied by Star Wars: Force Commander, where you can command AT-ATs)

- We have no idea of knowing the recharge rate involved. IDeally this could be a few seconds (for the 16 kt explosion) to nearly half a minute (for the 130 kt explosion.) or the exact reactor output. Remember that this is not only a larger vehicle than most, it only has a couple of energy weapons to power, not the numerous gun and missile systems of the LAAT, or other vehicles. More power can be allocated to each gun, and each gun can be designed to handle the yields better (for that matter, as I said, they could enforce an extended delay between shots to build up power)

- I remeind you that with Slave-1's observed Rate of Fire in Ep2, (10-20 bolts per second), and its stated yield, that the bounty hunter ship was capable of putting out around 20-40 kilotons per second sustained as well, which is not unreasonable either.

- AT-ATs can tangle with X-wings without much difficulty (In Isard's Revenge). Starfighter lasers CAN damage Walker armor, but repeated volleys are required to breach.

- According to the SWICS, the Walker's armor is resistant to anything BUT the heaviest TLs (presumably this refers to only ground artillery weapons, and not ground to space or capital ship weapons.)

Evil S'tan wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:Additional notes:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/walkers.html#atat


That gives stats on the AT-AT. We know they have a top speed of 60 km/hr , or almost 17 m/s. Saxton seems to indicate that the walkers moved 10 meters per step every second, which might help clarify things.

So basically they moved at ~2.5m/s?

Each leg moves 2.5 M/s, contributing an overall speed of 10 m/s (I think Saxton indicated that teh walkers move their legs 2.5 m every .6 second..or something like thaat)

Connor MacLeod wrote:Also, the SWICS rates the Walker with a reactor of its own, which means its not running on batteries or capacitors This probably gives us a fairly good idea (coupled with the Republic gunship) of power generation capability for SW ground vehicles.

Further note that while the kt-range figures may seem far higher, in light of what the Republic ground forces and what starfighters are capable of, I remind you of a few details:

- this WAS a maximum-firepower shot. Ideally this probbly represents not only the most substantial amount of energy that can be drawn frm the reactors, but also an extended "build up" between shots (this is what is implied by Star Wars: Force Commander, where you can command AT-ATs)

- We have no idea of knowing the recharge rate involved. IDeally this could be a few seconds (for the 16 kt explosion) to nearly half a minute (for the 130 kt explosion.) or the exact reactor output. Remember that this is not only a larger vehicle than most, it only has a couple of energy weapons to power, not the numerous gun and missile systems of the LAAT, or other vehicles. More power can be allocated to each gun, and each gun can be designed to handle the yields better (for that matter, as I said, they could enforce an extended delay between shots to build up power)

I suppose it is possible they were charging a seperate capacitor throughout the battle for the one 'spectacular', with the gunners keeping the weapons only slightly energized beforehand. Though the ICS diagram only mentions the one "laser power cell".

Also right up to the moment Veers unleashes the volley at the generator the walker is gunning down rebel troops(and a snowspeeder).

Connor MacLeod wrote: - I remeind you that with Slave-1's observed Rate of Fire in Ep2, (10-20 bolts per second), and its stated yield, that the bounty hunter ship was capable of putting out around 20-40 kilotons per second sustained as well, which is not unreasonable either.

Looking at EpII:ICS its entirely possible to fit Slave 1's generator into an AT-AT. Those maximum firepower bolts might not have needed any significant pre-charging.

Connor MacLeod wrote: - According to the SWICS, the Walker's armor is resistant to anything BUT the heaviest TLs (presumably this refers to only ground artillery weapons, and not ground to space or capital ship weapons.)

It also mentions the armour makes the thing too heavy effective repulserlifts.

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Evil S'tan wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:Additional notes:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/walkers.html#atat


That gives stats on the AT-AT. We know they have a top speed of 60 km/hr , or almost 17 m/s. Saxton seems to indicate that the walkers moved 10 meters per step every second, which might help clarify things.

So basically they moved at ~2.5m/s?

Each leg moves 2.5 M/s, contributing an overall speed of 10 m/s (I think Saxton indicated that teh walkers move their legs 2.5 m every .6 second..or something like thaat)

Well it wont make much difference, if its 10m/s rather than 5, the generator in image 01 would be at 19.36Km, therefore >1.9Km. For the sake of argument the explosion in image 2 is still going to be ~1Km across, the fireball in image 7 still ~2Km.

Evil S'tan wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Evil S'tan wrote:So basically they moved at ~2.5m/s?

Each leg moves 2.5 M/s, contributing an overall speed of 10 m/s (I think Saxton indicated that teh walkers move their legs 2.5 m every .6 second..or something like thaat)

Well it wont make much difference, if its 10m/s rather than 5, the generator in image 01 would be at 19.36Km, therefore >1.9Km. For the sake of argument the explosion in image 2 is still going to be ~1Km across, the fireball in image 7 still ~2Km.

Thats why I provided the max speed as well.. even fi they speed value is contested (The one observed from the movies), you can still derive an uncontestable value

Evil S'tan wrote: I suppose it is possible they were charging a seperate capacitor throughout the battle for the one 'spectacular', with the gunners keeping the weapons only slightly energized beforehand. Though the ICS diagram only mentions the one "laser power cell".

Also right up to the moment Veers unleashes the volley at the generator the walker is gunning down rebel troops(and a snowspeeder).

He may not have been using teh chin guns, but the side turrets. Soemtimes its hard to figure out which guns are being fired.

Looking at EpII:ICS its entirely possible to fit Slave 1's generator into an AT-AT. Those maximum firepower bolts might not have needed any significant pre-charging.

That assumes thats the only generator in Slave-1, but its possible I suppose.

It also mentions the armour makes the thing too heavy effective repulserlifts.

Yep.

I wouldn't find the 130 kt fire rating that out of place. After all the LAAT's missiles had...what...200 kt yield?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I wouldn't find the 130 kt fire rating that out of place. After all the LAAT's missiles had...what...200 kt yield?

100 kiloton highly directional yield. But thats for missiles, not for a beam weapon.

130 kt would place it in fairly high-end fighter (possibly even capital) ship weapons - although there's no hard and fast rules apparently for laser weapons either I suspect it depends on the exact combination of recharge rate, power output, and what the gun can tolerate.

A couple of images showing the Heavy blasters in action before the max-firepower volley:





As you can see the Heavy blasters were still firing, the last shot occurs at 0:31:38, General Veers begins "target...". at 0:31:45 finishing "...firepower" at 0:31:46, the bolts are heading down-range at 0:31:48

This might indicate a pre-charge time of 2 seconds for a max-firepower shot, not unfeasible given SW powerplants.

It is possible that the order "prepare to target the main generator" at 0:28:53 signalled for the gunner to charge another capacitor for the grand finale, in which case charging time would have been 175 seconds, however this is unlikely given ICS indicates only 1 power cell per gun, and the heavy blasters fired more shots after this.

Forgot about these:

Interesting how all the rebels should be getting at least first (and quite possibly up to third) degree burns from the large explosion. Plus they'd then get knocked over by the 2-3 PSI shockwave. But where's the shockwave? Hoth is covered in blown snow, even a 16 kT explosion should have a highly visible shockwave, never mind that of a 130 kT or even a 3.4 MT detonation

"Look ma', no maths".

The explosion the rebels are running towards is ~260KT (For those who are not clear it was a double shot fired against the generator, hence 16KT per bolt, 130 KT per bolt e.t.c). The 1 Psi blast radius for such an explosion http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/Nw ... ml#nfaq5.6 would be 13.8Km, the rebel soldiers are the best part of 17Km from the explosion.

As to flash burns again using the FAQ:
1st degree burns out to ~10Km
2nd degree burns out to ~8Km
3rd degree burns out to ~7Km

Shame the soldiers are the best part of 17Km away

As to no mushroom cloud from the first explosion I honestly dont know. If you watch the explosion it does begin to rise but then appears to get cut off. The larger second explosion orginates from within the first at roughly the same time this occurs, is it possible for the more energetic fireball to overtake/absorb the first before the mushroom cloud rises?

Evil S'tan wrote:Forgot about these:
The explosion the rebels are running towards is ~260KT (For those who are not clear it was a double shot fired against the generator, hence 16KT per bolt, 130 KT per bolt e.t.c). The 1 Psi blast radius for such an explosion http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/Nw ... ml#nfaq5.6 would be 13.8Km, the rebel soldiers are the best part of 17Km from the explosion.

I think you need to check your distance again. The AT-AT may be 17km from the generator when it fires, but in the images you gave of the rebel soldiers the generator appears about 3x larger - the rebels are maybe 3 miles from the generator. You should expect wind speeds of about 25mph for your lowest estimate, and over 7-mph for your 260kT

BTW, how come you use SWTC's explosions page to get the energy of the fireball, yet ignore the bit it says about the fireball rising at about 250m/s - your fireballs don't look to be rising that quickly.

And for those unable to think for themselves, 7-mph should really be 70 mph

Lord Edam wrote:
I think you need to check your distance again. The AT-AT may be 17km from the generator when it fires, but in the images you gave of the rebel soldiers the generator appears about 3x larger - the rebels are maybe 3 miles from the generator. You should expect wind speeds of about 25mph for your lowest estimate, and over 7-mph for your 260kT.

Ok.
25 pixels tall instead of 12, i.e ~half as far. As image 1 is at at least 19.36Km that puts the generator in the scene with the troops at ~9.3Km

Lord Edam wrote: BTW, how come you use SWTC's explosions page to get the energy of the fireball, yet ignore the bit it says about the fireball rising at about 250m/s - your fireballs don't look to be rising that quickly.

250m/s or 10m per frame. Dont look to be rising that quickly? are you looking at the same images here?

Lord Edam wrote:
I think you need to check your distance again. The AT-AT may be 17km from the generator when it fires, but in the images you gave of the rebel soldiers the generator appears about 3x larger - the rebels are maybe 3 miles from the generator. You should expect wind speeds of about 25mph for your lowest estimate, and over 7-mph for your 260kT.

Ok.
25 pixels tall instead of 12, i.e ~half as far. As image 1 is at at least 19.36Km that puts the generator in the scene with the troops at ~9.3Km

Lord Edam wrote: BTW, how come you use SWTC's explosions page to get the energy of the fireball, yet ignore the bit it says about the fireball rising at about 250m/s - your fireballs don't look to be rising that quickly.

250m/s or 10m per frame. And you dont think their rising at least that quickly?

Godamn stupid browser

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I wouldn't find the 130 kt fire rating that out of place. After all the LAAT's missiles had...what...200 kt yield?

100 kiloton highly directional yield. But thats for missiles, not for a beam weapon.

Usually SW uses beam weapons preferably anyway.

Keep in mind TL artillery on an SW battlefield is capable of hurting suborbital/atmospherical capital ships (Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, Loronar TL Artillery). Easily multi-gigaton range weapons moving over these battlefields.

Connor MacLeod wrote: He may not have been using teh chin guns, but the side turrets. Soemtimes its hard to figure out which guns are being fired.

That's what it looks like in the video clip.

How do you get more than 17km for the distance? I know the 17.28 thing, but wasn't the ATAT moving toward the reactor?

The AT-ATs weren't going that fast you know. It would be a bit under 17.28 but still above 17 kilometers.

SylasGaunt wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote: He may not have been using teh chin guns, but the side turrets. Soemtimes its hard to figure out which guns are being fired.

That's what it looks like in the video clip.

I was talking about before firing.

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Keep in mind TL artillery on an SW battlefield is capable of hurting suborbital/atmospherical capital ships (Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, Loronar TL Artillery). Easily multi-gigaton range weapons moving over these battlefields.

Yes Yes, I know.. the wea pon capable of putting a 20 meter hole in Durasteel, and having an output equal to a Star Destroyer turbolaser (presumably the medium guns, since they don't believe in the heavy guns...) PRoblem is it requires about a minute to recharge its gun.

You also forgot to mention the SPHA-T's firing on the Trade Fed core ships.

Evil S'tan wrote:Ok.
25 pixels tall instead of 12, i.e ~half as far. As image 1 is at at least 19.36Km that puts the generator in the scene with the troops at ~9.3Km

I got it 32 pixels vs 11. And your image 1 is only that far away if we accept your assumed velocity. We should see the walker gain on the fleeing rebels at quite a rate if it's moving at the 20mph you claim, but in the clip you posted it isn't even gaining on them (unless heavily clothed humans can run at >20mph in frozen wastes - can they?)

250m/s or 10m per frame. And you dont think their rising at least that quickly?

We should see the fireball rise to at least twice the height of the generator before we cut back to Veers. What we actually see is the fireball floating round about where it hit

Connor MacLeod wrote:
I was talking about before firing.

Did you mean the rebel infantryman that got gunned down less than a second before Veers nuked the generator?