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Posted: 2003-01-20 05:51am
by Boba Fett
Thanks your word is enough Robert!
Posted: 2003-01-20 07:42am
by Robert Treder
No prob. Just to be sure, here's a quote of me quoting Stackpole's Rogue Squadron, from an earlier thread on the topic (
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... highlight=):
Robert Treder wrote:Here it is:
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron (pp. 71-71)
"He paused for a moment and looked at the rows of TIE fighters, bombers, and Interceptors painted on the side of the ship. Big Death Stars bracketed the collection of smaller ships on either side, and Ssi-ruuk fighters had started a new row, right at the top of the red stripe bisecting the fuselage. It has been a long fight. And will be longer still.
"Behind him Wedge heard some chittering that Emtrey translated. 'Master Zraii apologizes for not being able to fit all your kills in the space allotted. The ships rendered in red are meant to represent a squadron worth of kills--meaning a dozen.'
"Wedge frowned as he turned to face the droid. 'I have a vague idea how many ships there are in a squadron, you know.'
"'Yes, of course, sir. I know that, but given that the Verpine normally count in base six and humans use base ten, twelve, which to a Verpine is known as 'four fists,' the potential for confusion warranted explanation.'
"The human held his hands up in surrender. 'Fine. Just tell him that he can group kills by dozens or gross lots. It makes no difference to me.'
"'Gross lots, sir?'
"'A dozen dozen, Emtrey.'
"'One hundred and forty-four? Four wings?'
"'Yes, forty-eight fists in Verpine.'"
So, it doesn't give an actual figure, but Wedge seemingly wouldn't be surprised if kills were grouped in units of 144.
So, according to Wedge, a wing is 36 fighters. Note that he's referring to Imperial fighters here.
In real life, of course, squadrons and wings vary in size. But in Star Wars, the squadron seems fixed at 12, and the wing (rebel wing, at least) at 36.
Posted: 2003-01-20 07:11pm
by The Dark
It also seems that Rebel flight groups are three fighters in the film, and four in the books (cf. the Trench runs, the Rogue Squadron books). This would give either four or three flight groups per squadron. The latter is more flexible, as it allows for more mutually supporting tactics.
Additionally, another reason why the "inferior" TIE is used is ease of maintenance. The X-Wing requires far more maintenance work than the standard TIE/ln, as it has the Strike Foils, hyperdrive, and shield generators.
Posted: 2003-01-20 11:55pm
by Kerneth
I always wonder why the K-Wing disappeared after the "Black Fleet Crisis" series, and the E-Wing which was supposed to replace the X-Wing instead just turned into a supplement.
Posted: 2003-01-21 12:43am
by consequences
Because the E-Wing had problems, the K-wing was invented by a not-great author that not many wanted to emulate, and the NR wised up to the fact that using better components for the fighter gives you a better fighter, you don't need to create a new damned design.
Re: rebells have superior fighters (x-wing etc)
Posted: 2003-01-21 07:52am
by Thunderfire
Grog wrote:This is the case isn't it? But why? I think that the empire should be able to develop better fighters than the rebell alliance. Have the EU or something explained this?
No. They are pretty equal unless you add special fighters from the
games/EU universe. Just look af ANH X-Wings die as fast as Tie-Fighters.
Only games & some EU books support the idea that Rebel fighters
are supperior to their imperial counterpart. Add advanced EU/game
fighters and the imperials are the one who get supperior fighters.
Posted: 2003-01-21 03:08pm
by Lord Pounder
Also, except for squadrons with character shields like Rogue Squadron, NR fighter squadrons seem to take losses in most engagements. Just read Wraith Squadron: Iron Fist andSolo Command.
As far as the 181st i'll be the 1st to admit they had their ass handed to them by Rogue Squardon in the past. This is mentioned in Isards revenge when Wedge is talking about the liberation of a Imp world and the Imps Wedge is dining with accuse Baron Fel of being a traitor.
Posted: 2003-01-21 03:54pm
by ad_pellaeon
I'm just curious, in ANH many Rebel fighters only withstood one or two blasts from TIE fighter cannons, I believe that this is similar in ROTJ during the space part of the battle of Endor. If the Rebel's have shields, then why are the TIE cannons able to blast through them in one or two hits?
Posted: 2003-01-21 04:11pm
by TrekWarsie
Actually, I saw several explosions near the starfighters when the X-Wings and TIEs engaged each other in RoTJ. I looked carefully and saw that no ships disappeared when those explosions took place. Given the amount of laser cannon fire, I think that those explosions may have been laser blasts impacting the starfighters' shields.
Posted: 2003-01-23 01:41pm
by Shortie
Wasn't the X-wing originally supposed to be the next-gen Imp fighter? I had the impression that the TIEs were good when new, but getting old, and what with the X-wing design team defecting, and the A-wing being designed by a Rebel, they were only borderline good enough any more. The horde of variants was their attempt (delayed by Yavin and Endor and evreything) to select a next-gen fighter design. Personally I think they should have stuck with the Interceptor, the upgraded variants were pretty level with an X-wing.
Posted: 2003-01-23 05:54pm
by Lord Pounder
Incom who designed the X-wing defected to the Rebellion for reasons i'm not sure off and the A-Wing was defigned by General Dodonna and the chick who designed the Vic.
I don't really see the Imperials dispencing with the Tie designs. The Tie design was a symbol of the Imperial Fleet as much as the ATAT was a symbol of the Imperial Army.
Posted: 2003-01-23 08:02pm
by phongn
consequences wrote:Because the E-Wing had problems, the K-wing was invented by a not-great author that not many wanted to emulate, and the NR wised up to the fact that using better components for the fighter gives you a better fighter, you don't need to create a new damned design.
The E-Wing could not use easily-available blaster gas, which would have caused problems in the supply chain. It did have the sixteen proton torpedos, but what use were that many? If you need to hit a hard target send in the B-Wings. It was fast, well-shielded and maneuverable, though, but it seemed that the logistics problems overcame it.
The XJ-Wing seems to have superior performance without the supply problems the E-Wing did. It also has better visibility.
The K-Wing is a specialized assault bomber without even a hyperdrive. With the dearth of major fleet combat after the peace treaty, it may have been removed from service. The B-Wing can do its mission, though not as well (no plasma bombs and such) but it is more flexible.
Posted: 2003-01-23 08:03pm
by phongn
Darth Pounder wrote:Incom who designed the X-wing defected to the Rebellion for reasons i'm not sure off and the A-Wing was defigned by General Dodonna and the chick who designed the Vic.
Incom was to be nationalized by the Empire. They didn't want that so they jumped ship along with the prototypes. Since then they seem to have concentrated on X-Wing upgrades (during the rise of the NR) and low-budget fighters like the Howlrunner.
Posted: 2003-01-26 04:36pm
by Vendetta
The 'Rebel fighters are better' concept seems to be a conceit born of the X-Wing games.
After all, back in X-Wing you had to take on the might of the empire singlehanded, you didn't want to be flying a complete shed.
The same thing informed the appearance of the Avenger and Defender. Though these were just silly. (Defender especially).
What we can tell from the movies -
The rebel ships look old and well used. This means that either:
1 - They are old, and have been snapped up by the rebels as the only thing going. - This could imply that the Imperial fighters are superior, as the rebels are using dog old rubbish bought cheap. (TIEs certainly get a better kill rate at Yavin without showing much superior numbers)
2 - They have seen a lot of action. - This implies the opposite. These ships have survived a lot of missions, they've had a chance to grow old and dirty even when put up against Imperial craft.